Production or custom? Where do you draw the line?

[zubrycky]

I have two rules: I never sell a bass and I never buy a bass that I would sell later.

That said, I will go custom someday because I have a few projects of my own with specifications nonexistent on mass produced instruments.

 

[OldShark]

How will only one instrument fulfill your fretted/fretless requirement?

 

[AudioTaper]

How will only one instrument fulfill your fretted/fretless requirement?

Ibanez SRAS7, but I dont think that's exactly what shes looking for here

 

[StayLow]

Production is plenty fine for me, now that quality 5 & 6 strings are widespread.

If this forum and Classifieds teaches us anything it’s that 99.99999999999% of people have no clear idea what they want or how exactly to get it, and/or would sound better on any bass and get more gig$ if instead they put that time, focus and money into lessons & practice. Or even into push-ups & sit-ups.

If music history teaches us anything, an equal percentage of bassists who made iconic music were fine with something indistinguishable from, or literally from, a pawn shop rack.

Human nature is what it is though, and it’s never different.

Cue the self-proclaimed, and maybe a few actual, exceptions that prove the point…

 

[DrThumpenstein]

I’ve gone both ways. This one was pricey, even though I got it used for a couple of grand off the retail, and truthfully his as much as I well ever spend on a bass:

While I love everything about that bass, I am not going to take it into bars and subject it to a lot of abuse or wear and tear.

This is my newest addition, customized and perfect for my needs. Features of the Fodera at a fraction of the price. I modded it a bit to give it the features I want (drop tuner, strap locks) and swapped out the guard for looks and I’m really happy with it. I get the features I dig in a bass that I don’t mind taking to bars.

A parts bass may be worth considering, to get a custom bass at a reasonable price.

*Edited typos

 

[buldog5151bass]

I don't worry about name. My three basses are a parts Fender I have owned about 35 years, a Lull P4, and a fretl3ss Mexican jazz.. All are great instruments.

Why not look here in the classifieds. Lots of nice instruments there.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

"I ended up finding that there's multiple aspects that I'm adaptable to, and I have a fluctuating set of parameters that determine a nice bass to me.


As of now, my most expensive bass cost around $3,000.

My most played bass right now?
A $300 b-stock import.

Price paid is not a guarantee of happiness....."

agreed 100 percent. Not all that glitters is gold.. However, if you look its amazing how you can find a "diamond in the rough"

 

[FenderBassist]

Are your current basses are not meeting your needs in some area? Would hate to see you get rid of two basses that seemed to act well as "main instrument" and "backup instrument" (depending on the situation) to risk everything on one unknown bass. This is assuming you play in bands and have live performances.

I would personally feel better about your situation if you were to keep the two you have for now, perhaps acquire a third that you feel better suits your needs, and spend a good amount of time playing all three before getting rid of the one you like the least.

In the case of custom instruments, do you really know how you want the headstock and body to be shaped? Do you know what tone wood(s) you want used and what electronics? Which neck design feels best in your hands? If so, then perhaps that is the route to go since the models you listed didn't seem to meet all of your desires.

What's the most important thing is that you're happy, and I hope you know what it is you want so that you can be happy

EDIT: I missed the section you wrote about the Euro bass...perhaps a 5 string version of that is the way for you to go.

 

[dedpool1052]

What about my Spector, exactly.

So far out of all the basses I have tried, the Spector that I own is literally perfect for me, despite having 2 "choice" spots in the upper register on the G string.

It plays like butter, sounds killer, looks great, feels even better - had a guy play on it some time ago who plays rsys and he said it was really, really comfy to play on my spector.

It's a 4 though, which kinda... Irks me.
I'm considering a custom USA shop 5 string in place of this one and my fretless, I think it is a decent idea.

To all the others who have replied so far - thank you, it was nice to get some more thoughts on this and some feedback. One thing I wanted to mention - I want a 5 string that is as much "me" as possible, not an instrument that will magicslly make me better. So far the spector euro that I own has been that instrument, so maybe getting a custom 5er from them is the right move. Possibly

Since you already love a number of aspects about your Euro, other than string count, I would suggest starting with a Euro 5.
Then, you'd have a good baseline of how it fits, and if you even need to go the U.S. custom route.

 

[mikewalker]

I've had three custom order builds in the last four or five years, and one thing I can say is "don't be in a hurry". Especially now with COVID supply chain issues everywhere. The first two both had long waits and in the end were not built to my spec, which is very disappointing ($$$$ builds from reputable overseas makers) - so I do not have either one now. And the third is exactly two years into the build (My 1500 euro deposit wire transfer to Germany went thru on Dec 8th 2020!) and still no end in sight (hardware and materials procurement are the excuses). I have high hopes for this one being a keeper, but not thrilled with the indefinite shipping schedule.
So yeah, there is that caveat!

PS: If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would order a custom short-scale Ritter - one that looks exactly like THIS ...

(I asked Jens about one of these a couple of years ago and the build time and price estimate was very agreeable)

 

[JonathanPDX]

My #1 bass for the last dozen or so years has been a custom build by Chris Stambaugh. It was my first custom bass, and I spent over a year researching, playing lots of high-end basses, talking to luthiers, and figuring out exactly what I wanted. I played $100 basses and some that are well over $10,000 (many times over out of my price range.)

I decided that, given the massive bass market, there are a few good reasons to go custom:

1. What you want simply does not exist on the market.
2. What you want exists but not at a level of quality or customization that is acceptable.
3. What you want exists, but a good luthier can build it custom for less than the alternate costs (IE a high-end stock Fodera, Alembic, etc. costs more than the same specs done by a skilled luthier as a custom build.)

In the end I had a bass built that cost around $2,000 and plays every bit as well as any Fodera or other boutique instrument I've played. It does everything I need it to do, and at the highest level of quality. I could have saved up for a Fodera or something, but I got a bass that feels just as good as was built to my exact needs and even little things like custom aesthetics.

Right now Chris is finishing a second bass for me. It fell into category 1: nobody else makes it. Well, Fodera has a similar model, but it's not perfect, and costs well over ten grand. What I'm having built doesn't just check all the boxes, but it has some incredible custom aesthetics that not many builders can do, and the cost is completely reasonable and lower than you'd expect for such an unusual build.

I think the key is knowing EXACTLY what you want and being crystal clear with the luthier about your needs. Not just "I want a bass that measures X by Y" but "I want a bass designed for me to do X and Y, and here's how I like to do that."

Obviously I've found a luthier I trust so I'd highly recommend you put him on your list of guys to talk to. Sure, any major purchase is a risk, and lots of guys will say "Well maybe you spend five grand and hate it" but that's the case for everything from basses to amps to cars to weddings. The question is "What gives me the best odds to get exactly what I want?" For me, that answer is: having a reputable skilled luthier build it for you.

 

[logdrum]

What a good place to be in. Young and access to better instruments.

Yeah just go custom. Leones bass and Public-Peace/Maruszczyk seems to be the best bang for the buck

Leones custom shop: Bass of the Week: Leones JB 541FR Rosewood



OR Get some MIA (yeah they are probably overpriced ) Fender bass or EBMM. In 15 years time, they will probably be costing more - you make a profit. Then invest in some good outboard EQ and preamp for your toneshaping or maybe install custom onboard electronics while holding on to the stock.

 

[red_rhino]

Have you considered MTD?

I'll second that. Fabulous basses, easily on a par with every other builder you're considering. They also have a great reputation for working directly with customers to determine exactly what they're after. You might want to have a look over in the The Official MTD USA Thread. (Lots of GAS-inducing eye candy.)

That said...

Having custom ordered several basses in the $4000 and $5000+ range I can say that most of them were disappointments. Yes, you might get lucky but it’s very easy (at least if you have picky ears) to end up with something that, on paper, is perfect but in your hands just won’t cut it. It doesn’t matter what brand it is, basses just aren’t consistent enough to offer any guarantees where sound is concerned.

Agreed. You can usually get pretty close, but many custom orders don't turn out exactly the way you envision, regardless of price or reputation of the builder. There are just too many variables.

Considering your proximity to Poland I would say check out the custom Luthiers there. I have been nothing but impressed by Polish offerings in the bass world. Good luck!

I was going to suggest that as well. I owned a Mayones Cali 4 mini bass for quite a while and was very impressed with the build quality. Really, really nice. If they put that much effort into one of their mini basses, I imagine their full-size instruments would be equally as nice.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I'd second those that say try as many basses that you can to see if there are production models that will meet all your needs. From your list, the only things that might put you into custom territory is the wood pickup covers. You can get wood control knobs aftermarket.

I think it is important to get many playing years and trying and owning different basses before going the truly custom route. It is hard to know what you want and what you prefer without having the experience. i.e. You don't know what you don't know!

If the Spector is an instrument that really fits you and you know you like, I would try and get my hands on a 5-string model.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

A few thoughts and ideas to look into...

SPECTOR EURO 4 = 34" scale

SPECTOR EURO 5 = 35" scale (unless a Classic)

SPECTOR EURO 5 Classic = 34" scale/JJ pickups

A Luthier with a great track record = BRUBAKER

BRUBAKER is now in charge of making the Ken Smith Basses. (Just saying, Ken thinks BRUBAKER is )

I just down sized from one 5 string to one 4 string...

XOTIC #XP078 made by Hiro Miura in 2012.

Miura Guitars now makes three (3) Basses your way...you should look him up in L.A., a Zen Master Luthier!

True custom is fun, a process and a crapshoot! I've worked in the best custom guitar shop in Austin, TX for five years 25 years ago. Worked with one of the best making instruments for rock stars. I know what to look for and have seen good money chasing after bad. I've owned only eight Basses at one time and all were different tools and for different situations. Six production and two custom. I have no regrets about not having any of them now.

One last thought...talk to Rob Greene @ Status Graphite about the 1/2 fretted (1-7) 1/2 fretless (8-22/24) neck he does in 34" scale. He is no slouch either!

 

[hbarcat]

Kiesel (Carvin) lies somewhere between production and custom and they have an excellent reputation.

You can pick from a fairly wide selection of body and headstock styles, and a multitude of woods and finishes. Prices are typically $2000 - $3000 for a 5 string bass with a lot of options. There are many loyal Kiesel/Carvin fans (including myself) who consider them to be similar to boutique instruments but at lower cost. Probably their best value is in playability. With boutique instruments, it's fairly common for clients to spend a lot of money and wait a very long time to get a bass that is custom made to the last detail, yet doesn't get much use because it looks a lot better than it feels.

Pro: Build times are quick and you get a lot of options and quality for your money.

Con: If they don't offer an option you want, you're out of luck. If you wanted EMG pickups, for example, you'd have to swap out the stock pickups yourself.

Also, resale value is terrible. If you don't like what you've just spent $2500 for, you'd probably take a ⅓ hit when selling.


This shows what options are available.

https://www.kieselguitars.com/models/bass

 

[Rjb1101]

I think downsizing and upgrading the quality is a great idea, but 2 basses would be my lower limit. I want 2 basses so that 1 can be in for repair, or whatever, and I can still gig.

I sold a couple of basses that were "hanging around" and not being played when I bought my Sadowsky Metro Jazz. You can get some good basses from the classifieds.

I like FSO's. Lakland, Lull and Sadowsky are at the top of my list. I'm also looking for a Sire 5 string but it has to be under 9lbs.

I’ve gotta go with 3 so I’ve got a backup while one is in the shop

 

[JW56789]

Another observation/recollection from inside the Custom Bass rabbit hole:

There's 2 kinds of 'custom' basses:

FIRST is what I call 'Custom with a Little C'. You know, a custom bass.

This is some combination or minor variation on a body the particular builder already builds. A 'regular model' for the builder in question, and you suggest a non-catalog finish, wood, etc., a different combination of features or options he already offers.

This is like asking the Fender Custom Shop to build some unique version for you of a Jazz or Precision.

It's an instrument they've already built a number of, have the production technique down pat, not a lot of 'off the menu' add-ons. This will help hold the price down.

And since it's familiar territory, both you AND the builder can talk effectively about what you want. Since it's a variation of a known model, the chances of success are high, and if it's not too outside the box, it may well bring a good resale.

SECOND is what I call 'Custom with a Big C'. This is a CUSTOM BASS.

This is where you've thought up something at least completely and utterly different instrument than what that particular builder normally turns out. A true 'one-off'.

This is like asking the Fender Custom Shop to build an Alembic six-string with all the bells and whistles. Or a bass shaped like the Starship Enterprise. Or a potato. Or asking Alembic to build you a doubleneck, bolt-neck authentic Jazz Bass.

Now, there are builders who can do this, but not nearly as many: Most are smart enough to walk away fast. Here, unless you live close enough to routinely stop in and maintain a tight relationship with your builder, this is asking for an expensive disappointment, as you're likely asking a stranger to read your mind and make you exactly what you had in mind which is completely out in left field for most builders.

It can be done, but it will take a long time, probably very expensive, and the chances of the train coming of the track are very high, unless the whole process is very, very collaborative, and personality-wise, you and the builder are sympatico. Don't be surprised if half the stuff you dreamed up is in a practical sense, impossible, unless you have rock star or Tony Montana money to throw at it.

And later down the line, after years of acrimony and insults hurled back and forth, you can get on TB and rag on the guy about 'all that money, and LOOK what I got', and even later complain you sold it for pennies on the dollar and moan about the bath you took on that %&#$&($# bass.

Looked at Squiers lately ? ? ?

 

[Tim Schnautz]

Another observation/recollection from inside the Custom Bass rabbit hole:

There's 2 kinds of 'custom' basses:

FIRST is what I call 'Custom with a Little C'. You know, a custom bass.

This is some combination or minor variation on a body the particular builder already builds. A 'regular model' for the builder in question, and you suggest a non-catalog finish, wood, etc., a different combination of features or options he already offers.

This is like asking the Fender Custom Shop to build some unique version for you of a Jazz or Precision.

It's an instrument they've already built a number of, have the production technique down pat, not a lot of 'off the menu' add-ons. This will help hold the price down.

And since it's familiar territory, both you AND the builder can talk effectively about what you want. Since it's a variation of a known model, the chances of success are high, and if it's not too outside the box, it may well bring a good resale.

SECOND is what I call 'Custom with a Big C'. This is a CUSTOM BASS.

This is where you've thought up something at least completely and utterly different instrument than what that particular builder normally turns out. A true 'one-off'.

This is like asking the Fender Custom Shop to build an Alembic six-string with all the bells and whistles. Or a bass shaped like the Starship Enterprise. Or a potato. Or asking Alembic to build you a doubleneck, bolt-neck authentic Jazz Bass.

Now, there are builders who can do this, but not nearly as many: Most are smart enough to walk away fast. Here, unless you live close enough to routinely stop in and maintain a tight relationship with your builder, this is asking for an expensive disappointment, as you're likely asking a stranger to read your mind and make you exactly what you had in mind which is completely out in left field for most builders.

It can be done, but it will take a long time, probably very expensive, and the chances of the train coming of the track are very high, unless the whole process is very, very collaborative, and personality-wise, you and the builder are sympatico. Don't be surprised if half the stuff you dreamed up is in a practical sense, impossible, unless you have rock star or Tony Montana money to throw at it.

And later down the line, after years of acrimony and insults hurled back and forth, you can get on TB and rag on the guy about 'all that money, and LOOK what I got', and even later complain you sold it for pennies on the dollar and moan about the bath you took on that %&#$&($# bass.

Looked at Squiers lately ? ? ?

Brilliant post!

 

[Katoosie]

Lots of good and valuable info here.
Thanks for chiming in and letting me know and consider some builders I have not seen before I seen very little of.

I found a bass that has basically everything I would want in a 5er. And lo and behold, it's a Spector. I alread

Spector NS5 XL

Specs:

• Model: NS5XL
• Serial Number: 544
• Top Wood: Hand-Selected Buckeye Burl
• Body Wood: Swamp Ash, Weight-Relieved
• Fretboard Wood: Pale Moon Ebony
• Inlays: Ebony Crowns
• Headstock Overlay: Buckeye Burl
• Truss Rod Cover: Pale Moon Ebony
• Headstock Inlay: Pale Moon Ebony
• Scale Length: 35"
• Neck Wood: 3pc Maple Neck-Thru, Charcoal Stained
• Neck Profile: Spector Thin Neck Shape
• Side Dot Markers: Blue Luminlay w/ Black Border
• Hardware Color: Black
• Tuners: Hipshot UltraLite
• Bridge: Lightweight Aluminum
• Pickup Configuration: Soapbar Set
• Pickups: EMG 40 DCX
• Preamp: HAZ 18-volt
• Finish: Matte
• Weight: 8lb 9.8oz
• Case: Spector TSA Hardshell Case

I would easily go for a 5er custom spector, new or used. The price is steep at 7k dollars but you know, there is always the used market.

And Leones, Maruszczyk, Unicorn Bass, Ritter, Mayones, Adamovic and all the others everyone has suggested are great too.

We will see once the time comes, but I do not think the time is now. Thanks for the help everyone and feel free to post more info! Really appreciate it.