Quitting a band sucks

[Raw N Low]

In the OP's defense, I've had a chance to interact with this sound guy, and he bulldozed any of my suggestions when he volunteered to run sound for my band. I've heard the OP play before and the bass is marginalized in the mix. I will let the OP divulge a little more but, I was frustrated dealing with that guy.

I think the problem is that some bands don't know how to use their own backline and they will gracefully hand it over to a "professional" to handle it. This particular sound guy makes his bread on being overbearing and mixing to his taste, rather than the strength of the band.

The night I had a run in with him, he failed to realize that both of our guitar players where using Les Paul's with no tone variation. To make matter worse, the guitars weren't mixed in well and one of our guys hooked up a extra stage monitor that sounded horrible. Our lead singer couldn't be heard of the the guitars that sounded like they were playing in a coffee can. My tone and the drummers were the only distinguishable instruments and that guy came after us (me primarily).

If the OP's band isn't skilled enough to take care of their own backline, then they aren't going to fight for the bassist.

 

[fishdreams]

I don't tell anyone else what their sound should be, and I expect to be treated likewise. It's just plain disrespectful and I'm always amazed that bass players allow themselves to be treated that way.

If I get hired/paid for a single session or gig, than yes, the person footing the bill gets to tell me what to sound like, effects to use or not use, up to a point.

 

[smartinson]

So yeah, there's a lot of great advice in here. It helped me be more introspective about my own shortcomings and fault in this whole scenario. I could have and should have handled it better. So at rehearsal last night we did have a nice long talk about everything. I learned some things that I can do to help (especially by not taking things personally). Just going to have a 'cooling off' period and go from there and see where things end up.

 

[City]

Did you try ignoring the sound tech? Did you try telling him to go fornicate himself when he informed you what you should use. Personally, I use nothing but a wire from bass to amp (there is a bit of a compressor on it), but your sound is what you use. I run sound professionally and deal with tons of bassists. I would never tell one how to set up their gear or what not to use.

I wonder what the soundman would do if he switched basses for certain songs?? Could this guy work for Geddy Lee?

 

[ToneMonkey]

So yeah, there's a lot of great advice in here. It helped me be more introspective about my own shortcomings and fault in this whole scenario. I could have and should have handled it better. So at rehearsal last night we did have a nice long talk about everything. I learned some things that I can do to help (especially by not taking things personally). Just going to have a 'cooling off' period and go from there and see where things end up.

The sound guy may indeed be a dipstick, but you can probably learn something from the guy. If nothing else what not to do.

Glad to hear that you were able to discuss things with the band. Guys like don't come around very often. I hope you work it out.

 

[lfmn16]

I don't tell anyone else what their sound should be, and I expect to be treated likewise. It's just plain disrespectful and I'm always amazed that bass players allow themselves to be treated that way.

If I get hired/paid for a single session or gig, than yes, the person footing the bill gets to tell me what to sound like, effects to use or not use, up to a point.

I agree with this, but would add If I'm the headliner and paying the sound person, they work for me and had better work with me. If I'm the headliner working with the house sound person, I hope they work with me. If I'm not the headliner, I hope for the best. I've been much happier since I came to this understanding. I've found that not being a Richard Cranium helps in most cases, but not always. My first tactic is always to try and schmooze the sound person.

 

[fishdreams]

I agree with this, but would add If I'm the headliner and paying the sound person, they work for me and had better work with me. If I'm the headliner working with the house sound person, I hope they work with me. If I'm not the headliner, I hope for the best. I've been much happier since I came to this understanding. I've found that not being a Richard Cranium helps in most cases, but not always. My first tactic is always to try and schmooze the sound person.

+1, and to add: just because I feel this way doesn't mean i'll fly off the handle and be a di*k about it. If someone has an unrequited opinion, misplaced as it may be, I'll listen to them politely and thank them for their insight (hey, I always want to know how people hear something, regardless). If that person than goes on to tell me i 'should' do this and that, I'll tell them politely thank you for your advice. If it's one d*ck sound person at one show, I'll let it go. The end . Still can have fun playing the gig, if I allow myself to do so. I've done way too many gigs with crappy surroundings that just were cool, fun shows..

 

[rtslinger]

I would be interest in seeing a video that was taking from the crowd if possible, so you could determine if the sound guy is BS you,
or is your tone not working in the mix?
It isn't logical to me that the sound guy is going to make your band sound bad which = less or no work for him? He goes too if the band is kicked to the curb by the venue.
Is he forcing you to quit, so he won't have $ flow till the band replaces you?

If he was a one time deal and you were the opening act and he was the head-liners sound guy than may be, but he from what I read he is on the payroll, so what is his gain in all of this?

Not saying this SM is right or wrong, I think if he has brought something to your attention, you should say let hear what you are hearing get out there behind the board and listen as a person in the crowd not as the bass player and say to yourself if I was paying to hear this would I stay?
Because at the end of the night and the smoke clears it will determine if the club is going to have all of you back or are you guys going to retreat back to your bedrooms and just play for the fun of it.

 

[oldrocker]

I would be interest in seeing a video that was taking from the crowd if possible, so you could determine if the sound guy is BS you,
or is your tone not working in the mix?
...

 

[RollCats]

There are three sides to every conflict: your side their side, and the truth.

Sound guys are hired to make bands sound good at FOH for the pleasure of the audience. After all, pleasing audiences is what bands who play gigs are supposed to be doing, right?

Basically, you tell the sound guy what you want and he makes it happen. But it's a two-way street. In order for the sound guy to make FOH sound good for the audience, he needs the musicians to be flexible to make changes and adjustments. When the bassist pounds his chest like a furious gibbon and screeches, "I AIN'T CHANGING ANYTHING!", they get in the way of the sound guy getting his job done. That's the kind of stuff they make fun of bassists for over at TalkDrums, TalkGit, TalkKeys, and TalkVox. Das not it mane.

Me? I ain't a sound guy and I ain't at FOH. I know what sounds good in my bedroom, but my bedroom ain't the venue. So I supply a dimed dry send to the expert and let him do the job we hired him to do and make it sound good. If he needs me to adjust something I do it. It's all about the *band's* sound, not *my* sound. Or me.

PS. And I don't be playing foolish games like sandbagging on my volume, either.

I don't understand why some bassists tolerate this when drummers would never tolerate, say, being asked to play on an electronic drum kit (to not have an acoustic set bleed into FOH!) or a guitar player would just laugh at a sound guy who requested he get a dry, pre-pedalboard signal and not mic the guitar amp.

Why don't bassists get to determine their on stage sound, and have the FOH just reproduce it as accurately as possible without muddying everything? Why does only every other member if the band get that luxury?

That way of thinking and acquiescence just makes it harder for the rest of us who want to have a specific tone and indeed have spent a good amount of money to get that tone.

 

[fishdreams]

I don't understand why some bassists tolerate this when drummers would never tolerate, say, being asked to play on an electronic drum kit (to not have an acoustic set bleed into FOH!) or a guitar player would just laugh at a sound guy who requested he get a dry, pre-pedalboard signal and not mic the guitar amp.

Why don't bassists get to determine their on stage sound, and have the FOH just reproduce it as accurately as possible without muddying everything? Why does only every other member if the band get that luxury?

That way of thinking and acquiescence just makes it harder for the rest of us who want to have a specific tone and indeed have spent a good amount of money to get that tone.

Funnily enough, besides bassists, singers get this attitude too sometimes. My wife who always brings her own Neumann KMS105 to the gig, occasionally at reputable venues has gotten handed a busted old SM58 because 'the sax section needed all the condensers', 'I have no phantom power left for you', (with a state of the art theater 72 channel board), 'this is is the mike I know'.

 

[2112]

I don't understand why some bassists tolerate this when drummers would never tolerate, say, being asked to play on an electronic drum kit (to not have an acoustic set bleed into FOH!) or a guitar player would just laugh at a sound guy who requested he get a dry, pre-pedalboard signal and not mic the guitar amp.

Why don't bassists get to determine their on stage sound, and have the FOH just reproduce it as accurately as possible without muddying everything? Why does only every other member if the band get that luxury?

That way of thinking and acquiescence just makes it harder for the rest of us who want to have a specific tone and indeed have spent a good amount of money to get that tone.

In my covers project, our members are ALL flexible and will do what's needed to make it sound good overall. It's a stated equirement of membership. It means that sometimes we don't get to do things the way we'd want to individually for the good of the band's sound. For example, one guitarist don't like in-ears, but he makes it work. The other guitarist would rather play deeper cuts, but he understands why we don't. I switched the basses I played forever because the replacements sounded better in the mix. It's called being professional and it's called being part of a team unified toward a single, agreed-upon mission instead being self-interested and self-promoting. We too have spent a ton of money to make sure we sound good... as a whole. And we get asked for encores consistently. And venues seek us out to play their shows. Because we sound good... to them.

You're welcome to put together whatever project you like. You're welcome to put your tone above that of your band's. Please, by all means, do it that way... dowhatchalike. The results that typically come from attitudes like this simply make it easier for us to find gigs.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Funnily enough, besides bassists, singers get this attitude too sometimes. My wife who always brings her own Neumann KMS105 to the gig, occasionally at reputable venues has gotten handed a busted old SM58 because 'the sax section needed all the condensers', 'I have no phantom power left for you', (with a state of the art theater 72 channel board), 'this is is the mike I know'.

MEGA kudos to your wife.

Never had patience with singers that made demands requiring specific mic and outboard gear and then work off an Ipad because they don't know the lyrics.

Always figured since everybody else in the band made a financial commitment, why would it not be expected of the singer?

MEGA KUDOS!!!

 

[RollCats]

In my covers project, our members are ALL flexible and will do what's needed to make it sound good overall. It's a stated equirement of membership. It means that sometimes we don't get to do things the way we'd want to individually for the good of the band's sound. For example, one guitarist don't like in-ears, but he makes it work. The other guitarist would rather play deeper cuts, but he understands why we don't. I switched the basses I played forever because the replacements sounded better in the mix. It's called being professional and it's called being part of a team unified toward a single, agreed-upon mission instead being self-interested and self-promoting. We too have spent a ton of money to make sure we sound good... as a whole. And we get asked for encores consistently. And venues seek us out to play their shows. Because we sound good... to them.

You're welcome to put together whatever project you like. You're welcome to put your tone above that of your band's. Please, by all means, do it that way... dowhatchalike. The results that typically come from attitudes like this simply make it easier for us to find gigs.

View attachment 3409528

We have an originals project. So everyone's tone contributes to the overall band's tone and feel. We have played 500 seat gigs outdoors with huge PAs and gotten encores. We've played breweries and gotten encores. Our talent and sound is the most important. A good sound guy should be delivering that too the audience, not fiddling with it turn it into his favorite genre, or insisting bass players that play in highly unique bands aren't allowed to have their own style and tone.

It's called THEM being professional.

Edit: And I never said I'm putting my tone above the band's. The band loves my tone and style and I'm sure if I asked would prefer the sound guy accurately deliver that to the audience. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

 

[Raw N Low]

In my covers project, our members are ALL flexible and will do what's needed to make it sound good overall. It's a stated equirement of membership. It means that sometimes we don't get to do things the way we'd want to individually for the good of the band's sound. For example, one guitarist don't like in-ears, but he makes it work. The other guitarist would rather play deeper cuts, but he understands why we don't. I switched the basses I played forever because the replacements sounded better in the mix. It's called being professional and it's called being part of a team unified toward a single, agreed-upon mission instead being self-interested and self-promoting. We too have spent a ton of money to make sure we sound good... as a whole. And we get asked for encores consistently. And venues seek us out to play their shows. Because we sound good... to them.

You're welcome to put together whatever project you like. You're welcome to put your tone above that of your band's. Please, by all means, do it that way... dowhatchalike. The results that typically come from attitudes like this simply make it easier for us to find gigs.

View attachment 3409528

There's a fine line between live music and live karaoke. Probably a reason why so many DJ's get business is because they can pop in a cd, mp3, or record and adjust to danceable levels. Then again, I've been to plenty of venues where the band plays loud and it works out. I've met engineers that were anal and did it their way because they weren't good enough to mix. I've met engineers that just plain sucked, sat behind a mixer, and ate up 10% of each band proceeds. I've met damn fine engineers that make very minor adjustments to the stage and work magic behind a mixing desk.

What I'm getting at is, bass is bit of a pariah in rock and pop music. It's the only genre where I've seen most bass players stigmatized, disrespected, and misunderstood. Most often then not, it's a seen and don't be heard kind of thing. R&B, Blues, Funk, and Jazz tend to be genre's where bass is pushed to the forefront. I totally agree that performers need to be professional, but, I think it's a bit naive to assume that the OP and responders in this thread are going out their way to be buttholes on stage as to not make any adjustment. Respect is often earned and most venues and engineers simply don't have the tact to conduct themselves that way.

 

[RollCats]

There's a fine line between live music and live karaoke. Probably a reason why so many DJ's get business is because they can pop in a cd, mp3, or record and adjust to danceable levels. Then again, I've been to plenty of venues where the band plays loud and it works out. I've met engineers that were anal and did it their way because they weren't good enough to mix. I've met engineers that just plain sucked, sat behind a mixer, and ate up 10% of each band proceeds. I've met damn fine engineers that make very minor adjustments to the stage and work magic behind a mixing desk.

What I'm getting at is, bass is bit of a pariah in rock and pop music. It's the only genre where I've seen most bass players stigmatized, disrespected, and misunderstood. Most often then not, it's a seen and don't be heard kind of thing. R&B, Blues, Funk, and Jazz tend to be genre's where bass is pushed to the forefront. I totally agree that performers need to be professional, but, I think it's a bit naive to assume that the OP and responders in this thread are going out their way to be buttholes on stage as to not make any adjustment. Respect is often earned and most venues and engineers simply don't have the tact to conduct themselves that way.

True I play in a band that is a blend of funk/hip-hop/jam band. Bass is definitely a strong presence in many songs because...I write many of them.

If someone is playing top 40 rock covers for a living, I can understand them not wanting to rock the boat...just know that some of us do value 'our' (individual and band) sound.