Racial Microagressions

[BawanaRik]

I suspect people who WANT to find offense or "microagression" in almost any conversation can do so.

Unfortunately, some folks make it their business to search out those potentially offensive tidbits, get all huffed up about it, then grab a megaphone and start trumpeting their offense to everyone around them.

It makes more sense to let the small stuff be just that: small stuff.

It might just be a good sign since this proves there isn't any big stuff.

Sooner or later, hopefully, people will learn that.

 

[Phalex]

I had an interesting conversation this evening with an interracial, multi-cultural couple who related a story about the paperwork they were given to fill out at the hospital when their daughter was born last year. They found themselves in the uncomfortable position of being forced to pick one box to categorize their child's race, when the reality was much more complicated than that. I completely understood: their family was a true melting pot of Latino, black, European Spanish, Native American and regular old white people. There was not a box for that.

My friend Les has a little bit of everything in him too. When we were in school they'd do standardized testing and there was always a field with little boxes to check for "Race".

He always checked every box except Asian. Nobody ever challenged him on it to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Phalex]

What happened to blue? I see he hasn't posted here since september, and it doesn't look like there was any trouble or anything. Is he OK? I kinda liked the guy.

His name has been chiseled from all of the obelisks and is no longer spoken in the kingdom.

 

[Relic]

I suspect people who WANT to find offense or "microagression" in almost any conversation can do so.

Unfortunately, some folks make it their business to search out those potentially offensive tidbits, get all huffed up about it, then grab a megaphone and start trumpeting their offense to everyone around them.

It makes more sense to let the small stuff be just that: small stuff.

I agree to a point. There are definitely personality types out there who seek out "offense", and I do find them painfully annoying.
Then again though, there are people who have had to deal with racism/bias/prejudice all their lives so their tolerance level for real or perceived slights may be next to nil.
In some ways I can identify with that..

 

[BawanaRik]

His name has been chiseled from all of the obelisks and is no longer spoken in the kingdom.

He who must not be mentioned.

 

[BawanaRik]

I agree to a point. There are definitely personality types out there who seek out "offense", and I do find them painfully annoying.
Then again though, there are people who have had to deal with racism/bias/prejudice all their lives so their tolerance level for real or perceived slights may be next to nil.
In some ways I can identify with that..

I know I can identify with it.

But I keep strong and focus on the good.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

My wife is multi-racial (Latina, Asian), I'm white. At the hospital when our son was born we simply checked the ubiquitous "Other" and moved on.
Though I understand some people are (perhaps rightly) bothered by all of that, we just choose not to be. It's no biggie to us.

It doesn't matter what box you check, the people you meet are going to attribute race to you when they meet you for the first time. Usually they'll apply the label of the "lowest status" race or ethnicity. In the majority of the US, that means that if you look a little black, Hispanic or Asian, you'll get that label even if the majority of your heritage is NW European. The "white" label is reserved for those who don't look the slightest bit "other".

Fear of a Black Planet

Black Man + Black Woman = Black Baby
White Man + White Woman = White Baby
Black Man + White Woman = Black Baby
White Man + Black Woman= Black Baby

 

[Relic]

It doesn't matter what box you check, the people you meet are going to attribute race to you when they meet you for the first time. Usually they'll apply the label of the "lowest status" race or ethnicity. In the majority of the US, that means that if you look a little black, Hispanic or Asian, you'll get that label even if the majority of your heritage is NW European. The "white" label is reserved for those who don't look the slightest bit "other".

That seems to be a very...I dunno what word to use...pessimistic statement maybe. Very negative, IMO. (maybe I'm totally missing the point of your post though?)

I wouldn't dispute that it's not true in many instances for sure but I would absolutely state that it is not true of everyone. I would venture to say that it may also depend on one's geographic location...? Some areas seem to be more open than others. I have virtually no problems of that sort here in NJ.
(unless I'm failing to read their minds )

My wife fairly often gets asked about her ethnicity. Never once has it been done in a condescending way. People usually think she's Indian or Thai, etc. My son has been called 'White" "Latin", "Asian".. doesn't matter. It's never been a negative thing. Honestly, I have yet to see any sort of "judgmental hierarchy" based on perceived race.
Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I'm sure it does in some way or another.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

That seems to be a very...I dunno what word to use...pessimistic statement maybe. Very negative, IMO. (maybe I'm totally missing the point of your post though?)

I wouldn't dispute that it's not true in many instances for sure but I would absolutely state that it is not true of everyone. I would venture to say that it may also depend on one's geographic location...? Some areas seem to be more open than others. I have virtually no problems of that sort here in NJ.
(unless I'm failing to read their minds )

My wife fairly often gets asked about her ethnicity. Never once has it been done in a condescending way. People usually think she's Indian or Thai, etc. My son has been called 'White" "Latin", "Asian".. doesn't matter. It's never been a negative thing. Honestly, I have yet to see any sort of "judgmental hierarchy" based on perceived race.
Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I'm sure it does in some way or another.

I don't think that people necessarily have bad intentions when they look at someone and attribute race. In many ways it is how we have been trained by media/family/friends, even if the intent isn't negative. Barrack Obama is a perfect example. Multi-racial, but to most people, his is simply "black". I've yet to find anyone who says he is "white". Why not?

I'm sure it dates back hundreds of years when racism was the norm. Part of that was the belief that white was superior to black. Mixed race was inferior to white, and therefore couldn't be called white. Even if we don't believe the original reasons for the categorization, we still use it.

 

[BawanaRik]

It doesn't matter what box you check, the people you meet are going to attribute race to you when they meet you for the first time. Usually they'll apply the label of the "lowest status" race or ethnicity. In the majority of the US, that means that if you look a little black, Hispanic or Asian, you'll get that label even if the majority of your heritage is NW European. The "white" label is reserved for those who don't look the slightest bit "other".

Interesting. Is this the way you operate?

It's my opinion that most people don't. In fact I'll bet most people don't really care if they are treated fairly and decently.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

Interesting. Is this the way you operate? It's my opinion that most people don't. In fact I'll bet most people don't really care if they are treated fairly and decently.

I also think that most people don't care what race/ethnicity people are. That isn't what I was commenting on.

Why isn't Barrack Obama white? I've had many people tell me his is black, a few say he is multi-racial, but no one has ever told me that he is white. This is what I was commenting on.

 

[macaroni tony]

If you have ANY clues about where he came from and/or any relatives, use google, even if you only have a few hints. If you know that they were members of a particular church/parish, you may find something. Curious- how old are you?

I'm 29.

My grandparents (my father's adoptive parents) won't tell him anything about his real folks, but I've been talking to him and he's starting to suspect more and more that he's his aunt's son. But I'm gonna start looking more into this again

 

[Relic]

I don't think that people necessarily have bad intentions when they look at someone and attribute race. In many ways it is how we have been trained by media/family/friends, even if the intent isn't negative. Barrack Obama is a perfect example. Multi-racial, but to most people, his is simply "black". I've yet to find anyone who says he is "white". Why not?

OK, yeah I thought you meant that it was done in a negative way. I see what you mean now.

It's an interesting point.
As I think about it, I'm not even sure if I'd say it's a media/family/friends thing so much as it is a human tendency to categorize and label, know what I mean? If we don't know, then we make a best guess on what we perceive. That's just another facet of basic human behavior. It's what you do with that perception that counts for whether it's a negative, neutral or positive

In regards to Obama - you could very well be right about that, but I think it could also be something based on pride. Given the prejudice that has existed and still exists against Black folks in many parts of this country, the fact that he is half Black is a source of pride for many folks of a variety of racial backgrounds.

It reminds me of when Pope John Paul II was chosen to be Pope. Suddenly my entire family (Polish-descended mostly) was ecstatic - "he's Polish!!!!" OMG OMG!!" This, in the era of Polish jokes and the constantly stereotyped 'dumb p-word".
When he was elected it was almost liberating in a way. In that era, it's almost like we moved up a notch in self confidence as a "sub-culture". Hard to explain

 

[BawanaRik]

I also think that most people don't care what race/ethnicity people are. That isn't what I was commenting on.

Why isn't ************ white? I've had many people tell me his is black, a few say he is multi-racial, but no one has ever told me that he is white. This is what I was commenting on.

Questions like this don't lead to understanding.

The old Divide and Conquer. Works every time. But it really, in my opinion, can get ugly.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

It's an interesting point.
As I think about it, I'm not even sure if I'd say it's a media/family/friends thing so much as it is a human tendency to categorize and label, know what I mean? If we don't know, then we make a best guess on what we perceive. That's just another facet of basic human behavior. It's what you do with that perception that counts for whether it's a negative, neutral or positive

I think categorization is natural, but why are the categorizations as they are? I suspect is dates to the time of slavery, when a majority of whites viewed blacks as inferior. This would naturally lead to the conclusion at the time that mixed race is inferior to white as well. This meant that a mixed race acquired the status of the "inferior" race, so someone who has some African descent can't be "white". Even if the intent is no longer present, we still use this method of categorization.

In regards to Obama - you could very well be right about that, but I think it could also be something based on pride. Given the prejudice that has existed and still exists against Black folks in many parts of this country, the fact that he is half Black is a source of pride for many folks of a variety of racial backgrounds.

Yes, but even before he was a presidential candidate, he was "black".

It reminds me of when Pope John Paul II was chosen to be Pope. Suddenly my entire family (Polish-descended mostly) was ecstatic - "he's Polish!!!!" OMG OMG!!" This, in the era of Polish jokes and the constantly stereotyped 'dumb p-word".
When he was elected it was almost liberating in a way. In that era, it's almost like we moved up a notch in self confidence as a "sub-culture". Hard to explain

My grandfather was Polish, so I remember this as well.

 

[Relic]

I think categorization is natural, but why are the categorizations as they are? I suspect is dates to the time of slavery, when a majority of whites viewed blacks as inferior. This would naturally lead to the conclusion at the time that mixed race is inferior to white as well. This meant that a mixed race acquired the status of the "inferior" race, so someone who has some African descent can't be "white". Even if the intent is no longer present, we still use this method of categorization.

Hmm... something to think about.
While you're historical analogy is correct to a point (though "mulatto" is used pretty extensively in colonial period documentation), I'm not so sure if we as a culture categorize and label according to "racial worth", again, it's absolutely true of someone who might harbor racial feelings towards a particular segment of our population, (and there are many who do) but you seem to be saying (?) that it's part of the greater American culture to do so, not sure if I agree there.

I still say that it's more-so a basic human trait to categorize based on one's perception.
Using my son as an example - White folks generally assume he's White, Latin folks generally assume he's Latin and so on - it's what you perceive balanced with what you identify with that calls the shots most often I think.

Yes, but even before he was a presidential candidate, he was "black".

Oh yeah, definitely but so log as he's successful and a potential role model, the same thought process would still apply for mostly anyone.

My grandfather was Polish, so I remember this as well.

well then, Wesolych Swiat i szesliwego nowego roku, kolegu!

(merry Christmas and Happy new year, homie!)

 

[fmoore200]

OK, yeah I thought you meant that it was done in a negative way. I see what you mean now.

It's an interesting point.
As I think about it, I'm not even sure if I'd say it's a media/family/friends thing so much as it is a human tendency to categorize and label, know what I mean? If we don't know, then we make a best guess on what we perceive. That's just another facet of basic human behavior. It's what you do with that perception that counts for whether it's a negative, neutral or positive

IME, it's all "in the eye of the beholder," meaning people see other people through their own, very personal lense. All their cultural life experiences are instantly brought to the front with little to no filter. They base there assumption of your race/ethnicity/nationality/sexuality etc on what they can identify from what they have seen before and how it matches you in *this instant*.

I'll give you an example I have lived with my entire life:

My mother was Mexican and my father Irish, but my mother didn't look like the stereotypical Mexican that all NY's think of when they think of a Mexican.

So I'm born with fairly light skin (my brother is even lighter) and green eyes. I'm over 6 feet tall. So nobody thinks I'm Mexican. But most people naturally *assume* I'm Spanish, and based on my physical appearance and since I live in NY I must be Puerto Rican or Dominican

Stereotypes may not be pleasant, but I don't think they are always used in a strictly negative way. I mean, there is a lot of information to be processed in a day, so I think there is a tendency to group things into categories for easier absorption.

And I don't get too miffed when someone thinks I'm Puerto Rican, I actually kinda like the shocked look I get and the "you're Mexican?!" question that invariably follows.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

Hmm... something to think about.
...I'm not so sure if we as a culture categorize and label according to "racial worth"...

I don't think we do either, because I think the majority of people have moved away from those antiquated ideas of racial superiority. I do think that to some extent, we still use that method of categorization, if only because of momentum.

I still say that it's more-so a basic human trait to categorize based on one's perception.
Using my son as an example - White folks generally assume he's White, Latin folks generally assume he's Latin and so on - it's what you perceive balanced with what you identify with that calls the shots most often I think.

This is probably another influence, and while more positive than my hypothesis, I still think this is an unfortunate thing, in that it celebrates similarity instead of diversity.

well then, Wesolych Swiat i szesliwego nowego roku, kolegu!

(merry Christmas and Happy new year, homie!)

I never learned much Polish, so thanks for the translation.

 

[Relic]

IME, it's all "in the eye of the beholder," meaning people see other people through their own, very personal lense. All their cultural life experiences are instantly brought to the front with little to no filter. They base there assumption of your race/ethnicity/nationality/sexuality etc on what they can identify from what they have seen before and how it matches you in *this instant*.

I'll give you an example I have lived with my entire life:

My mother was Mexican and my father Irish, but my mother didn't look like the stereotypical Mexican that all NY's think of when they think of a Mexican.

So I'm born with fairly light skin (my brother is even lighter) and green eyes. I'm over 6 feet tall. So nobody thinks I'm Mexican. But most people naturally *assume* I'm Spanish, and based on my physical appearance and since I live in NY I must be Puerto Rican or Dominican

Stereotypes may not be pleasant, but I don't think they are always used in a strictly negative way. I mean, there is a lot of information to be processed in a day, so I think there is a tendency to group things into categories for easier absorption.

And I don't get too miffed when someone thinks I'm Puerto Rican, I actually kinda like the shocked look I get and the "you're Mexican?!" question that invariably follows.

Agreed.

My wife is from Costa Rica so my son calls himself "Pol-arican"

Actually my wife claims that she's not the stereotypical Costa Rican either. Costa Rica has somewhat more of a European make up, sort of like Argentina or Chile so she's been mistaken by other Spanish people for Panamanian or Mexican on more than one occasion because she's short and darker-skinned...

 

[fmoore200]

Agreed.

My wife is from Costa Rica so my son calls himself "Pol-arican"

Actually my wife claims that she's not the stereotypical Costa Rican either. Costa Rica has somewhat more of a European make up, sort of like Argentina or Chile so she's been mistaken by other Spanish people for Panamanian or Mexican on more than one occasion because she's short and darker-skinned...

So what would your son call me?

Mexirish?

Irishican?

I need his help!