Rant about music snobs, open mic nite content

[dave_p]

i can relate a little
there is a pro around here who throws an open jam/musicians showcase once a month. its to get his guitar students up playing to an audience as well as have local players get up and jam. well run event, great people. im in a band, and we started going to this jam to unleash new material, network and maybe find a keyboard player.
one night we do our 3 songs. went very well. we get off and a pickup group starts to take the stage. no one comes up for bass so i volunteer. the organizer hands me a bunch of charts for whats coming up and off we go. was having a great time playing with people as they rotated on and off. until we go to....
the granola 50 something hippie singer songwriter chick. i figured she was gonna go solo and was making to leave. i was asked to stay and she gave me the rundown. its a blues in such and such a key. im thinking no sweat. then she puts the guitar in an alternate tuning and slaps on the capo. im still fine until i realize the key she called was if there were no capo. and you know the folks that play to their own sense of rythm, to their own vocal and you can kinda pull it off solo? change chords whever they feel like it? she was one of those. i could not catch the key, cadence or groove of what she was doing and it made me feel real ****** about what had been up to that point a good time. she then proceeds to ask for another bassplayer for the next song. i was happy to punch out. next bass player met the same hurdles. but i still felt bad about my performance.

 

[capnsandwich]

The ear trumps everything else (said the bassist with perfect pitch). Not everyone has the gift/curse, but if you do, then you can really fit in, just about anywhere. Master the fretboard, and a few modes, and everyone thinks that you went to music school.

Obviously, there are a lot of tone-deaf players out there who cannot tell the difference between something sounding "right," or "wrong." I use quotes, because sometimes, more than one note will work (like playing the 3rd, in some instances, or the 5th).

Some people are elitists because of overexposure to douchebaggery. It thus really boils down to diplomacy. My strategy, in the OP situation, is simple: I would ask the guitard to play his F# on his low E string. I would then match the pitch, on my instrument, whatever it might be. If his eyes tell him it's wrong, but everyone else's ears are agreeing that it's right (happens every time), I simply retort, "any questions?" and we move on from there. Yes, I realize that intellectual violence is cruel, but it is sometimes the only thing that will break a bad musical habit, like listening with your eyes. The only time that the eyes help is when the mix and tonality cause the ear to be unsure.

There's always the time-honored move of not saying a word, and taking off your instrument, offering it to the 'tard, implying, "here, you play it." Works every time.

I can attest to this. Yeah, sight reading and chord chart reading does help but to be thrown in on the fly at jams, a well trained ear is the most important thing you can have in that situation. People think I went to school and have a degree, etc. but in reality, music came to me at an early age (3 years old) and I used to listen and play along to CD's growing up so my ear has developed pretty well. It has helped me get gigs and session work over someone who has a degree sometimes and people always count on me to help them in the creative process of writing songs simply because I can "hear" certain parts.

Not taking away from reading and chord charts but talent is talent and you can't teach that in any school.

 

[NOAH_FX]

I can't say i've found many "Music Snobs" around here. However, one time me and some friends were signed up, but werent going on until 12ish, so we stayed around to watch beforehand.
So theres a group on stage playing some oldies (Hey joe etc), it was going good, i was enjoying there show, until the Guitarist started playing a solo... I'd never thought I'd need ear plug's for a open mic, i'm not sure if they were pinch harmonic's he was playing or what, but after 2 song's i had to leave, i just couldn't take it any longer. I spent the next 2 hours outside with my left ear ringing wanting to go home.

I just don't get it...Yeah cool your their to enjoy yourself, but no one cares how good you are... No one cares how fast you can play the damn penatonic scale..

Cranking to 10 and causing mad feedback in a tiny bar dosen't impress anyone..

 

[plankspanker13]

I can attest to this. Yeah, sight reading and chord chart reading does help but to be thrown in on the fly at jams, a well trained ear is the most important thing you can have in that situation. People think I went to school and have a degree, etc. but in reality, music came to me at an early age (3 years old) and I used to listen and play along to CD's growing up so my ear has developed pretty well. It has helped me get gigs and session work over someone who has a degree sometimes and people always count on me to help them in the creative process of writing songs simply because I can "hear" certain parts.

Not taking away from reading and chord charts but talent is talent and you can't teach that in any school.

Precisely!

 

[UnboundBassist]

Sounds like the guy has some bad habits to break. That being said, even if you WERE playing the wrong note, there are better ways to go about it than just tell you that you're wrong and don't know what you're doing. Like someone already said - you could be playing the 3rd or 5th for example and it's not on the root note. If this guy was good at improv or jamming, he wouldnt have demanded that the bassist only play the root note. That gets boring and adds zero tension. It's also predictable and does not excite the audience. They get excited when they hear a note pop out that they werent expecting.

If I ever do something my guitarist doesn't particularly understand, I explain it. He knows that although he is knowledgeable - there are many different reasons we play the parts that we do...

 

[jive1]

I was playing harp at an open mic, and I called "Messin' With the Kid" because it's a cool tune to blow harp on. So I'm singing, and there's a dance floor building. Around time for the harp solo, the harmonica player from the house band decides he wants to blow on my tune and comes up on stage, grabs my mic and asks me what key the tune is in. I tell him the wrong key, and he blows his harp and it sounds like crap. He then proceeds to grab a bunch of harps and blow into them trying to figure out what key it was. After a little frustration, he gives up, and hands the mic back to me, walks off the stage in frustration and I play a killer harp solo while making him look stupid.

Afterwards, he gives me a little lecture about harp keys, etc. I just smiled, trying to withhold laughter. Sure, I could have told him the right key, but I wouldn't have had as much fun then.

 

[stingray2112]

I've been in similar situations before. Some people are just ignorant.

 

[Silence_]

I know where you're comming from. I know the names of the 4 strings on my bass and even the low string on a 5 string bass, but I know absolutly nothing about what any of the other note names are
I play completely by feel and I try to listen, I can see where it might be helpful to know some of this stuff, and Someday I might learn a little more about this.
That whole highschool stereotype about "picking on the band kids" I was bullied by the band kids because I took a folk guitar class and struggled with reading sheet music. The fist day of that class was pretty much the teacher lecturing us pretty much telling me of how much of a savage I was as far as music goes. Though I've learned to kindof embrace that a bit, I'm a savage, a creature living off pure instinct. Though yeah I don't know all the technical stuff and I can't name off every single part of my bass by it's "proper" name, but in my opinion that doesn't make me Less of a musician than someone who's been playing half as long and knows some fancy words (end rant)

 

[Betrayer_Bass]

I know where you're comming from. I know the names of the 4 strings on my bass and even the low string on a 5 string bass, but I know absolutly nothing about what any of the other note names are ...

I totally agree with you. A lot of musicians I know don't know what the note is on the fretbaord, I know a few but not all of them. I also usually just go by ear. To be honest I think it's the best way, rather than reading off a sheet. It can sound robotic with no emotion. I once got into an argument with a friend's mom cuz her opinion was that real playing was sitting reading sheet music, where I think it's sitting with no sheet music, reaching inside and expressing what's there through the music.

Each to their own I guess

 

[Oneirogenic]

I totally agree with you. A lot of musicians I know don't know what the note is on the fretbaord, I know a few but not all of them. I also usually just go by ear. To be honest I think it's the best way, rather than reading off a sheet. It can sound robotic with no emotion. I once got into an argument with a friend's mom cuz her opinion was that real playing was sitting reading sheet music, where I think it's sitting with no sheet music, reaching inside and expressing what's there through the music.

Each to their own I guess

Reading and playing a piece note for note and basically what you describe as improvising are two very different things. Some musicians can literally only play what they have in front of them as sheet music or what they have memorized. Ask them to improvise or come up with an original lick and its a deer in headlights situation. The reverse is also true. Its a silly point to argue because they both have their place...somebody needs to be able to come up with original music and usually these people need musicians to play it. Creative musicians and musicians who can play whatever you put in front of them and everything in between are equally important.

 

[plankspanker13]

Creative musicians and musicians who can play whatever you put in front of them and everything in between are equally important.

If you're good, you're both.

 

[BayStateBass]

It's probably best to have a grasp on both the feel (and sound) as well as knowing note names. It makes you versatile, and able to fit in with all types of players. Having a basic grasp of music theory, at least understanding what makes a major, what makes a minor, where your 5ths are located, and ESPECIALLY key signatures will only make you a better, more accurate player. If you're already talented (by ear), a few theory lesson can carry you a long, long way to improving your overall ability.

 

[Oneirogenic]

It's probably best to have a grasp on both the feel (and sound) as well as knowing note names. It makes you versatile, and able to fit in with all types of players. Having a basic grasp of music theory, at least understanding what makes a major, what makes a minor, where your 5ths are located, and ESPECIALLY key signatures will only make you a better, more accurate player. If you're already talented (by ear), a few theory lesson can carry you a long, long way to improving your overall ability.

Agree. I don't read music but I know the fretboard, a largr chunk of theory, and can read chord charts. None of that means much if you don't have a good ear, instinct, creativity, and musicality.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I realized a minute later he must have never played a 5 string before....After all, why bother LISTENING to whats going on in a improvised jam session, when you could just watch people's hands?

Hit the nail on the head there. The problem is, as you stated, people listening with their eyes instead of their ears lol. Even the most "talented" guitarists can still have zero proficiency with understanding a bass beyond "it's a big guitar with 4 strings". I don't even bother with condescending guitarists anymore, because they are frequently wrong in situations like your anecdote stated. The funniest part is when you decide to be a jerk and school them out in the open. I would have said "Hey, play a B" and then played a B in unison with him. After that I would say "Ok, now play an F#", I'd play an F# as well in the same position as before and then pat him on the back, tell him to keep studying, and walk off stage

 

[Betrayer_Bass]

It's probably best to have a grasp on both the feel (and sound) as well as knowing note names. It makes you versatile, and able to fit in with all types of players. Having a basic grasp of music theory, at least understanding what makes a major, what makes a minor, where your 5ths are located, and ESPECIALLY key signatures will only make you a better, more accurate player. If you're already talented (by ear), a few theory lesson can carry you a long, long way to improving your overall ability.

This was my original point. But I'm reaall bad at making points and leave things out. So, I agree

 

[BayStateBass]

Personally, I'll take talent over training.

I have good/excellent training.

I have average talent.

In the small groups I run with other musicians typically know that if they plop chord charts or music in front of me they'll at least get something workable and okay, if not "pretty good". But unless I know the progressions ahead of time, I'm a lost cause. In order for me to develop a reasonable bass line I need an outline. Or at least a key signature. This is why I generally try to steer clear of open mic's and prefer a rehearsed setting before performance.

 

[fraublugher]

I was playing harp at an open mic, and I called "Messin' With the Kid" because it's a cool tune to blow harp on. So I'm singing, and there's a dance floor building. Around time for the harp solo, the harmonica player from the house band decides he wants to blow on my tune and comes up on stage, grabs my mic and asks me what key the tune is in. I tell him the wrong key, and he blows his harp and it sounds like crap. He then proceeds to grab a bunch of harps and blow into them trying to figure out what key it was. After a little frustration, he gives up, and hands the mic back to me, walks off the stage in frustration and I play a killer harp solo while making him look stupid.

Afterwards, he gives me a little lecture about harp keys, etc. I just smiled, trying to withhold laughter. Sure, I could have told him the right key, but I wouldn't have had as much fun then.

Brilliant!

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I was playing harp at an open mic, and I called "Messin' With the Kid" because it's a cool tune to blow harp on. So I'm singing, and there's a dance floor building. Around time for the harp solo, the harmonica player from the house band decides he wants to blow on my tune and comes up on stage, grabs my mic and asks me what key the tune is in. I tell him the wrong key, and he blows his harp and it sounds like crap. He then proceeds to grab a bunch of harps and blow into them trying to figure out what key it was. After a little frustration, he gives up, and hands the mic back to me, walks off the stage in frustration and I play a killer harp solo while making him look stupid.

Afterwards, he gives me a little lecture about harp keys, etc. I just smiled, trying to withhold laughter. Sure, I could have told him the right key, but I wouldn't have had as much fun then.

....you need an award, good sir

 

[moles]

Hey now, the problem is NOT anyone going to school for music.

The problem is some asshat guitarist who doesn't have ears

Meant to comment on this before...but, while I AGREE wholeheartedly, perhaps one problem is music schools not teaching their students to "have ears". I guess they can't help everyone though...

(I'm sure the asshat guitarist's ego played some part too.)

 

[HolmeBass]

My finger picking technique is rather unique, to say the least. I've seen a few others play like me, but it's not how it is taught in school. I hold my right hand over the strings with my fingers at nearly a right angle to my palm. It works for me as I am centered over the strings and my short fingers don't have to reach as far to jump from the E to G string. I've tried the traditional approach, but this old dog just can't learn the new trick. This technique has earned me the nick name "The Paw" and in spite of it, I manage to stay busy working around town and do an occasional tour.

At one gig I went to the bar during the break for a beverage when a patron strikes up a conversation with me. Turns out he "plays a little bass, too", and starts asking about my technique. I tell him I'm self taught and it just kind of stuck. His demeanor changes from inquisitive to critical as he informs me it is all wrong, and I should learn the proper technique if I want to have any success at all in music. So I ask him, "So, where did you play tonight?" And he says "Oh, I was off tonight", so I press him some more, "So ... who do you play with?" He's starting to get flustered, "Oh, umm ... well ... uh ... I'm on hiatus ... looking for the right project, yada yada". I thanked him for his advice and walked away with my drink.



I'm doing it all wrong, apparently.

Holy crap!! You're vocalist is psycho Tom Jones!

Good on you for handling that crap so well. Can't people listen with their ears rather than their eyes? I mean would that guy have corrected Jamerson for plucking with only one finger?