Roger's take, in a nutshell

[TyBo]

He simply can’t be objective on the subject, even if he believes in his heart what he’s saying. It would be akin to me deciding what my pay raise should be this year. I work hard and smart and think I deserve more than jim in the next office, but it doesn’t work that way for a reason. My boss may or may not be able to be objective about my raise, but I definitely can’t be.

I see that you've missed my point. The main thrust of Sadowsky's piece is that, in his long exeprience, fingerboard material makes the most difference, where wood type is concerned. Maple or rosewood generally. Not sure how evaluating the tonal properties of those in thousands and thousands of instruments amounts to a lack of objectivity.

Not sure either how it relates to your pay raise.

 

[5StringBlues]

This clip reminds me of the joke about the blind man who tried to get a job in the lumber yd, saying he could grade wood by the sense of smell. Which certainly cannot be told here.

Absolutely not objective, and I agree. I'd like to see him identify fretboard woods by playing them blindfolded. Basses that he is not familiar with/played before, P's/J's/PJs/, using a statistical representative sample (20+).

It doesn't have to be Roger, I'd like to see anyone ID tonewoods blindfolded (hint) - "Show me".

 

[bass12]

He simply can’t be objective on the subject, even if he believes in his heart what he’s saying. It would be akin to me deciding what my pay raise should be this year. I work hard and smart and think I deserve more than jim in the next office, but it doesn’t work that way for a reason. My boss may or may not be able to be objective about my raise, but I definitely can’t be.

What if you knew for a fact that Jim was a habitual slacker who never met his given objectives, while you achieved all of yours? Could you not objectively say you deserve more than Jim?

What, precisely, is the conflict of interest (which is what you seem to be alluding to) in Roger’s suggesting what he does regarding fingerboard woods?

 

[57pbass]

Sure, there are going to be some differences from bass to bass that have the same wood.

Working in the Sadowsky shop for a few years— and I’m not there day to day currently— my personal experience is that there are tonal commonalities with different wood combinations. I would go in the showroom and play the basses most days for a few years during lunchtime. It was a real apples to apples situation where I could compare a 4-21 maple/ash to a 4-21 Pau ferro/alder to a 4-21 ebony okoume.

It was a very unique situation and privilege to have regular access to all of these wood combinations over the years. I went on my own personal tone quest and went from tone wood skeptic to believer to skeptic and back around again. But in the end, my personal experience is that the different combinations sound more alike than not.

My real tone test was going from maple/ash and rosewood/alder combos to maple alder. Get used to the first two and then throw that variable in and you can really hear the difference.

Will they sound that way to the audience? Debatable, especially in the mix. But as a player, I can tell the difference, and that changes how I approach and interact with the instrument.

What bass configuration did you decide to go with ?

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Questioning the experience of career industry professionals is a pillar of Talkbass. The only unbiased, and therefore, valid truth is the myopic opinion of inexperienced lay people.

​

 

[BassBlappa]

I've been looking forward to hearing Roger's thoughts on the tonewood debate, and I agree with his viewpoint.

IMHO - The pickups are integral to defining the character and tone of a bass. They capture the vibrations of the strings and transmit them as electrical signals to the amplifier. Different types of pickups, such as single-coil or humbuckers, have distinct tonal characteristics that greatly influence the overall sound. Additionally, the wood selection of the bass body and neck can further shape/refine the instrument's tonality. Woods like ash or maple often contribute to a brighter, more articulate sound, whereas mahogany, rosewood or alder can lend a warmer, more rounded tone. Together, The combination of pickups and wood creates a unique sonic fingerprint for each bass, allowing the player to tailor the sound to suit different musical styles and preferences.

As Roger says “Trust your own ears and go with whatever you hear in your head."

Just my nickel's worth.

 

[Geogio]

I had a Dan Armstrong resin bass, and Dan Armstrong was of the opinion that the more dense the material the better the sound hence the use of resin. That was his concept. This is another concept. I found through my years of playing that I look towards Alder bodies, that's my concept.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

I like this little summation by Sadowsky, in part,I'm sure, because it fairly closely reflects my own experience and opinions. We've seen comments from Roger, and others, on this subject, so not new. And we've seen how contentious this stuff can be, unnecessary though that seems. Oh no!!!!
But I think he puts his perspective forward here pretty succinctly, and ends, appropriately, with "Use your own ears, play what you like." There ya go.

Thank you. Ebony fretless board here. Fretless 5 NYC 8179. Nice link.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

He simply can’t be objective on the subject, even if he believes in his heart what he’s saying. It would be akin to me deciding what my pay raise should be this year. I work hard and smart and think I deserve more than jim in the next office, but it doesn’t work that way for a reason. My boss may or may not be able to be objective about my raise, but I definitely can’t be.

Nonsense. With logic like that, it's no wonder Jim got a bigger raise than you.

It's the Tonewood Industrial Complex, man!

 

[Jack Butler]

How is your logic any more sound? Guy sells high dollar basses with exotic tonewoods. Same guy says exotic tonewoods make a difference in sound. Coincidence?

Nonsense. With logic like that, it's no wonder Jim got a bigger raise than you.

It's the Tonewood Industrial Complex, man!

 

[lowfreqgeek]

How is your logic any more sound? Guy sells high dollar basses with exotic tonewoods. Same guy says exotic tonewoods make a difference in sound. Coincidence?

So you're saying that a white pine fingerboard sounds the same as Maple and Rosewood and Ebony and Pau Ferro?

As I said in my first post in this thread, questioning (i.e. doubting the advice of) career professionals is a pillar of Talkbass. Carry on.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Just for profit? No. Largely for profit? I think so. I think he believes the things he says. I don't think he's lying. I remain unconvinced.

It's not a lie if you believe it to be true. Proven in the 1990s

 

[-Asdfgh-]

"Largely for profit" - How so? Again, listening to his actual words, Sadowsky is saying very clearly that the fingerboard wood makes the biggest difference.

And there are also videos out there in which people swap necks from maple fingerboard to rosewood and tone is unaltered...

 

[andare]

In the video he talks about maple, rosewood and ebony as fretboard woods. I have no idea why his prices for exotic woods are pertinent to the topic. Those three aren't exotic at all. What he charges for his instruments has nothing to do with the tonal qualities he hears in fretboard woods.

 

[fretno]

I like wood.

 

[chris_b]

Questioning the experience of career industry professionals is a pillar of Talkbass. The only unbiased, and therefore, valid truth is the myopic opinion of inexperienced lay people.

So true.

 

[Chickenwheels]

In before page 123!!!!!

I watched the 4x2 vs Tele body 5000 years ago and yeah, they both sounded like a Tele…but the real Tele body had much nicer treble overtones…if you care. You being the operative word.

Me personally, I agree with Roger. A Brazilian rosewood slab board ‘60 ain’t like my maple ‘75…not better, just different. But everything is a factor.

 

[chris_b]

Everyone on the internet is an "expert".

I prefer my experts to have practical experience of the subject.

Go Roger.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Roger, Roger. Sounds wood differ, evidently, and obviously. How could they not? And bets can be made accordingly, chances taken. That's how the big boys and girls do it. It's not all conjecture.​

 

[roccobass]

Roger’s last point is one that is, I think, too rarely discussed. I often hear people say things like, “The audience can’t hear the difference between x and y basses” and I always think, “Probably not, but I can hear the difference - and that affects how I interact with my bass (and how much enjoyment I get from playing it)”.

I fully agree!

If I might expound a bit further. If you have band mates who care about the band sound/dynamics, they’ll be on board with how you’re coming across and get into it. You being moved to play better because you’re getting “your sound” tends to inspire the rest of the group. Last Saturday’s gig was good example for me regarding this.