Interesting point, I personally have always preferred the Aeolian, though Dorian is the reccommended mode most of the time (at least with Aebersold and what I'd been taught) I do like going b6 to 5 or 6 to b7 though.
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Roy Vogt's Bass Ed Think Tank
- Thread starter Roy Vogt
- Start date
Interesting point, I personally have always preferred the Aeolian, though Dorian is the reccommended mode most of the time (at least with Aebersold and what I'd been taught) I do like going b6 to 5 or 6 to b7 though.
- Sep 20, 2000
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Well, since the Cm7 is the im7 and thus the vim7 of Eb, a case could be made for the Aeolian. I personally tend to use the Aeolian primarily because there is an Ab in the melody and also because there is an Fm7 as the adjacent chord and a Dm7b5 after that which lean heavily on the Ab. I generally try to keep the chord/scale movement as smooth as possible, but if you're going just by Chord Tones either scale can work (for that matter you could even play C Phrygian although that Db might be an ear-bender).
Duke Ellington said it better than me, "If it sounds good, it is good."
that and this hand wringing about what mode to use in "blue bossa" are exactly why i hate to use modes and i'm totally behind the chordal approach. if i want to play a note, i don't want a mode telling me i shouldn't use it, but if you get too hung up on modes, you will lose out on 5 other notes you could use that might be very effective.
at the beginning.
i'd say start learning how scales are formed, how chords are formed out of the scales, and learn your basic major/minor triads. and of course, learning how to read. roy will have more targeted advice than me, i'm sure, but those general areas will get you on the road.
- Sep 20, 2000
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I'd probably find a teacher and work on reading and scales/chords etc. with his or her assistance.
Triads and 4 note chord arpeggios along with basic major and minor scales (because they are the building blocks of the triads and 4 note arpeggios seems a good place to start.
I see by your profile that you play trumpet/cornet. That should help you deal with reading bass clef, since you're already comfortable with notation and rhythms from your other instrument.
I'd tell any bassist to start looking at playing simple Blues progressions using triads and 4 note chords and then branch off into other patterns. From there, it's a quick jump to Jazz Blues, Rhythm Changes and ii-V-I progressions and then into Walking Bass patterns and Standard Tunes.
One of your countrymen, Paul Westwood, has written a great book called The Bass Bible (in the US it's published by Mel Bay). It's got a ton of great information on theory, styles and general playing. Highly recommended.
You and I are in the same boat, and my teacher is doing exactly what was said above.
I'm learning scale modes and the fingerings that go with them and will soon be moving into chords.
I'm building a foundation right now, but am looking forward to practical application of what I've worked so hard on.
Now I'm off to hunt down a copy of the Bass Bible unless Roy has a copy I can borrow.
- Jun 25, 2007
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I can tell by your posts that you have a good "work-ethic"
You will have No problem with this stuff!
- Sep 20, 2000
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I'd go ahead and make the investment, Chad. It's a good resource to have.
While I'm at it, here's some books I like/use that would be the start of a rudimentary bass library for one of my students:
The Improvisor's Bass Method by Chuck Sher www.shermusic.com
Standing in the Shadows of Motown by Alan "Dr. Licks" Slusky
Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Green Casale (et al) Bass Clef
The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid
and if you must use your thumb
:Slap It! by Tony Oppenheim (was totally bummed out when they put the TAB in there)
These will keep anyone busy for a good while and only two of these (if you count Westwood's Bass Bible) have the dreaded TAB.....
I can tell by your posts that you have a good "work-ethic"
You will have No problem with this stuff!
I hope not. It seems pretty difficult to me, and I don't feel like I put in enough time between work, family, and other commitments.
Lately I've hit a bit of a wall. I practice and the stuff just doesn't seem to permeate my brain. I still have to go back to my "cheat sheet" to remember something versus having it internalized, and that drives me crazy. I've got to ween myself off two pieces of paper. 1) The mode chart my teacher gave me and 2) A chart of the natural notes on the fretboard.
It drives me crazy that I've not memorized this stuff as much as I've used it.
Last night I was working on scales (again) and my fingers were tied in knots. Fretting was hideous. Getting buzzing strings and missing strings completely. Then, I decided to have fun with the modes and I put on a drum loop. I played the modes randomly versus chromatically. My head was bobbing, foot was tapping, and I wasn't messing up as bad.
Don't know why that is, but if it's musical, it's easier than just playing chromatic mode exercises which loose my interest pretty quickly. After you've played them several hundred times, they just don't have the same level of enjoyment. LOL!
unless you're wes montgomery....but yeah a little slap goes a long way......i've got chuck sher's book and it's a good 'un...some day i'll nail that intro to IIbsI'd go ahead and make the investment, Chad. It's a good resource to have.
While I'm at it, here's some books I like/use that would be the start of a rudimentary bass library for one of my students:
The Improvisor's Bass Method by Chuck Sher www.shermusic.com
Standing in the Shadows of Motown by Alan "Dr. Licks" Slusky
Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Green Casale (et al) Bass Clef
The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid
and if you must use your thumb
Slap It! by Tony Oppenheim (was totally bummed out when they put the TAB in there)
These will keep anyone busy for a good while and only two of these (if you count Westwood's Bass Bible) have the dreaded TAB.....
I'd go ahead and make the investment, Chad. It's a good resource to have.
While I'm at it, here's some books I like/use that would be the start of a rudimentary bass library for one of my students:
The Improvisor's Bass Method by Chuck Sher www.shermusic.com
Standing in the Shadows of Motown by Alan "Dr. Licks" Slusky
Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Green Casale (et al) Bass Clef
The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid
and if you must use your thumb
Slap It! by Tony Oppenheim (was totally bummed out when they put the TAB in there)
These will keep anyone busy for a good while and only two of these (if you count Westwood's Bass Bible) have the dreaded TAB.....
I looked it up, and saw that it came with CDs. I'd rather have my own copy. Might even check the library and see if they have some of those books. Very good list Roy. Thanks!! It's information like this that a newbie like me needs. I'm going to be sitting on an airplane flying up to NYC on Sunday and flying back on Tuesday, so I'll have time to plow through a book. Hate to miss three days of practice and not do something to help myself musically.
I would say my biggest problem right now is focus. I need to focus on one thing, get good at it, and then move forward. I'm just trying to cram too much in my head at once and it's not working.
Thanks for keeping it going, Roy! As we learned from the JB threads, to contribute on the level that Jeff did is no small task and I just want to thank you in advance for being willing to keep it going!
Please don't feel obligated to respond - I mostly wanted to say that and get subscribed. Now, on with the music talk!
Please don't feel obligated to respond - I mostly wanted to say that and get subscribed. Now, on with the music talk!
Last night I was working on scales (again) and my fingers were tied in knots. Fretting was hideous. Getting buzzing strings and missing strings completely.
Don't let it get you down. At this stage this'll happen to you but you will be, regardless of how you feel, getting better. Consistency comes with time.
Don't let it get you down. At this stage this'll happen to you but you will be, regardless of how you feel, getting better. Consistency comes with time.
- Jun 25, 2007
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Maybe we could start a little more basic...without getting into advanced Jazz chord theory right off the bat!
Learning basic 3 note chord structure is a good place..
Root, 3 and 5.
Major, Minor, Diminished and Augmented.
There are plenty of resources on the "net" to figure this much out.
Learning basic 3 note chord structure is a good place..
Root, 3 and 5.
Major, Minor, Diminished and Augmented.
There are plenty of resources on the "net" to figure this much out.
Thanks for the encouragement. I know the results will reveal themselves in time.
As part of my nightly practice, I spend some "fun time" playing along with songs I like. While I've not "learned" to play any songs yet, I'm able to follow along pretty well with some of them. Of course, I miss a lot of notes, but I can tell that my ears are better connected to my fingers, if that makes any sense.
happens to me all the time....some days i can be smokin',put it down come back a hour later ,and fumble around on really easy stuff
Why is it that when I play the root-3-5, it sounds really "boogie woogie ish", especially if you add in the 6 and dominant 7 (if that's the right word for it...heck if I know).
What I find fitting more songs I attempt is the root-4-5 with a 2 tossed in.
I don't know what you call any of that, but I know what it sounds like.
That stuff is the basis of most early rock 'n roll walking lines. When I first learned the major triad, the first thing I thought was that sounds like "ob la di, ob la da". Then I saw a fingering diagram for arpeggios and when I played the one that was R-3-5-b7-9 it struck me that those were the notes in the riff for "pretty woman".
That ended up being ear-training by association, kind of like a musical ink-blot test
