And "Elvira" by the Oak Ridge Boys-it's a long story.....
That's a Carpool Karaoke Classic right there, Mr. Vogt!
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Roy Vogt's Bass Ed Think Tank
- Thread starter Roy Vogt
- Start date
That's a Carpool Karaoke Classic right there, Mr. Vogt!
Gotta love the Beach Boys. Endless Summer was the first album I ever owned. Got it for a penny! Then they kept wanting me to buy more, but I was around 6 years old. A penny was easy to find. The rest of the money wasn't. 
1) I have a couple of guitarists (Shane Roberts and Stan Lassiter) I love playing with. Acoustic guitar and fretless bass seems really magical to me.
2) Well, I have Kate Bush's Greatest Hits, The Beach Boys, Paul Simon, Eva Cassidy, Robert Earl Keen, all sorts of singer-songwriter stuff. And "Elvira" by the Oak Ridge Boys-it's a long story.....
Eva Cassidy- one of the purest musicians I've ever heard...shivers down my spine.
I understand the not a fan of tabs -but so far that is what i can do untill i can figure out how to read the music language. the reason i ask about books is because i saw you earlier post about the Paul Wesstwood Bass Bible ,would that also be a book for me or is it too advanced or something? thanks again for the responces.
Roy, what is the most effective method (or methods) to use to master the fretboard?
A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!
A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!
Uh, yeah.....I just wanted to be really careful to make this a thread of service and not self-promotion.
That being said-it's a darn good course. Thanks!
It's 10 DVDs instead of 8 but you're right-it's 20 lessons and about 2 years worth of serious work.
I too am a student of Roy's TMBG. I recommend the course.
The course is great for a beginner, but it's also good for players with experience and knowledge. I have had lessons with a good teacher, and years under my belt, and basic knowledge of theory, yet pieces were missing or I was simply not practicing when I had lessons. The first four lessons went very quickly for me, but the Bach exercise at the end of lesson four slowed me down. The course is filling in pieces for me, and I am at a point in my life where I am focused on improving, and I am able to put in the time now.
I am resisting the temptation to work on all the other recommendations here, and simply trusting my teacher, Roy, to get me there in the correct order.
Great course Roy, and great thread too.
I've just printed my copy of Jeff's article, many thanks to Commreman. There is an overwhelmingly large amount of work on this one piece of paper and I'm having remind myself that learning music is a long term commitment, not a race.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
My pleasure!
You will cover the entire fretboard with these, and there are many ways to play each inversion. Just take your time and have fun with these. They will show up in your playing in very unexpected and surprising ways!
What's interesting is that the exercises are arhythmic and sans fingering suggestions. The amount of room for variation to play around with these is endless. Just figuring out the most efficient fingering will keep me busy and create awareness of the notes in multiple positions.
to REAPER52 and any others out there using tab...............
Reaper52- "I understand the not a fan of tabs -but so far that is what i can do untill i can figure out how to read the music language"
While I am just getting into properly learning how to read standard notation myself. I definitely think that even you if really stink at reading std. notation that it is still much easier/efficient to make sense of than TAB. I realize that this totally goes against what most people that can't read music think. As they think of TAB-> its just a super easy way to learn a song.
Here are some of the reasons I developed this opinion... EDIT-- This is not written well, the thoughts were only really developing as they came out but here they are. I hope this may hit the TAB only readers in the right way and help sway them to learn std. notaton.
So even though I stink at sight reading notation right now- after just 2 months after studying/practicing standard notation I can read notation much more efficiently/easily than I can read TAB.
I think people are intimidated by all the information that is often displayed in standard notation-- being able to properly comprehend and properly execute all of the variations in REAL TIME of note values, and rest values, as well as dynamics, tempo markings, repeat symbols, etc, etc..... is definitely a daunting tasking. But while in the learning stages of reading standard notation, it is not neccesary to understand all of this stuff from the beginning- but it is there for you to interpret when you are are ready for it.
So if you don't read standard notation- then you can start simple and just write the note names on the staff- or perhaps even next to each note as you get acquanted with it. Then as with TAB you can simply translate those notes onto your bass, you don't have to pay attention to all of the other info on the page, you can just read it for the notes. But it just so happens that there is more info for there for you if you need it. Now I am not suggestioning in any way that this is a good habit to get into, but I do think it could be a useful experiment for a non-reader to try. They might see the light and really see what they are missing out on by relying on tab.
While most musicians seem to play rock, pop or something to that affect and never actually encounter sheet music with their band situations (I know I never have) it is definitely a tool that can really help us learn. I would speculate that most of us, bassits, wish (at one time or another) that we could play some really quite complex melodic passages or tunes. Whether it is a really happening solo in a pop song, a classical lead melody, or a jazz melody. The problem is that I've personally always wanted to play some things like this, but I never could really get myself to commit to learning/memorizing such a piece of music that I would never play in any sort of performance situation. Most of this stuff can't be found in TAB... and even if it can be, good luck reading and executing it in real time without really memorizing it. So if we start basic and learn to read simple standard notation then perhaps one day we will be able to just look at a peice of paper with one these complex (and hard to "memorize") tunes and just play it properly the first time! Wow what a thought! I am loving the journey, but I am damn excited to think that one day I may be able to just get sheet music for tunes I never could comprehend and then just play them!
I am amazed that so many of us have committed countless hours, years, decades to the music and instruments we love to play, thousands$ in equipment, missed out on precioud time with friends and family, YET most of us spent so much time gigging or jamming without ever really putting the time into learning theory properly, or how to read. I think nearly all of us really need to look at why we play and then STEP IT UP! if it is that important to us. If you just want to be able to play some simple rock lines in front of a bar crowd, hey thats fine, that could be enough for you, but I think most of us want more than basic performance skills- so lets really dig in.
Reaper52- "I understand the not a fan of tabs -but so far that is what i can do untill i can figure out how to read the music language"
While I am just getting into properly learning how to read standard notation myself. I definitely think that even you if really stink at reading std. notation that it is still much easier/efficient to make sense of than TAB. I realize that this totally goes against what most people that can't read music think. As they think of TAB-> its just a super easy way to learn a song.
Here are some of the reasons I developed this opinion... EDIT-- This is not written well, the thoughts were only really developing as they came out but here they are. I hope this may hit the TAB only readers in the right way and help sway them to learn std. notaton.
So even though I stink at sight reading notation right now- after just 2 months after studying/practicing standard notation I can read notation much more efficiently/easily than I can read TAB.
I think people are intimidated by all the information that is often displayed in standard notation-- being able to properly comprehend and properly execute all of the variations in REAL TIME of note values, and rest values, as well as dynamics, tempo markings, repeat symbols, etc, etc..... is definitely a daunting tasking. But while in the learning stages of reading standard notation, it is not neccesary to understand all of this stuff from the beginning- but it is there for you to interpret when you are are ready for it.
So if you don't read standard notation- then you can start simple and just write the note names on the staff- or perhaps even next to each note as you get acquanted with it. Then as with TAB you can simply translate those notes onto your bass, you don't have to pay attention to all of the other info on the page, you can just read it for the notes. But it just so happens that there is more info for there for you if you need it. Now I am not suggestioning in any way that this is a good habit to get into, but I do think it could be a useful experiment for a non-reader to try. They might see the light and really see what they are missing out on by relying on tab.
While most musicians seem to play rock, pop or something to that affect and never actually encounter sheet music with their band situations (I know I never have) it is definitely a tool that can really help us learn. I would speculate that most of us, bassits, wish (at one time or another) that we could play some really quite complex melodic passages or tunes. Whether it is a really happening solo in a pop song, a classical lead melody, or a jazz melody. The problem is that I've personally always wanted to play some things like this, but I never could really get myself to commit to learning/memorizing such a piece of music that I would never play in any sort of performance situation. Most of this stuff can't be found in TAB... and even if it can be, good luck reading and executing it in real time without really memorizing it. So if we start basic and learn to read simple standard notation then perhaps one day we will be able to just look at a peice of paper with one these complex (and hard to "memorize") tunes and just play it properly the first time! Wow what a thought! I am loving the journey, but I am damn excited to think that one day I may be able to just get sheet music for tunes I never could comprehend and then just play them!
I am amazed that so many of us have committed countless hours, years, decades to the music and instruments we love to play, thousands$ in equipment, missed out on precioud time with friends and family, YET most of us spent so much time gigging or jamming without ever really putting the time into learning theory properly, or how to read. I think nearly all of us really need to look at why we play and then STEP IT UP! if it is that important to us. If you just want to be able to play some simple rock lines in front of a bar crowd, hey thats fine, that could be enough for you, but I think most of us want more than basic performance skills- so lets really dig in.
The other thing is that TAB offers nothing in the way of ear-training. There's something about the hit and miss approach of sitting with a cd trying to find the notes that you hear in your head that really connects your ears to your fingers. There's a lot of pause/rewind that happens and it takes a long time but in the space of a few months to a year it becomes a lot quicker.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
Absolutely. They are designed that way. Do each exercise in all keys utilizing the cycle of fourths. You will find that you will need different fingerings in different keys using the same note progression. This is where the fun and discovery comes from. As Jeff recommends, do not use a metronome. That is why they are written "arythmically". You determine your feel and speed. Go slowly, and let each note breathe. You get the full melodic impact that way.
Eminentbass
Registered User
Endorsing Artist: Ashdown Amps and Sandberg Basses. Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassy7
to REAPER52 and any others out there using tab...............
Reaper52- "I understand the not a fan of tabs -but so far that is what i can do untill i can figure out how to read the music language"
While I am just getting into properly learning how to read standard notation myself. I definitely think that even you if really stink at reading std. notation that it is still much easier/efficient to make sense of than TAB. I realize that this totally goes against what most people think. As they think of TAB-> its just a super easy way to learn a song.
So even though I stink at sight reading notation right now- after just 2 months after studying/practicing standard notation I can read notation much more efficiently/easily than I can read TAB.
The other thing is that TAB offers nothing in the way of ear-training. There's something about the hit and miss approach of sitting with a cd trying to find the notes that you hear in your head that really connects your ears to your fingers. There's a lot of pause/rewind that happens and it takes a long time but in the space of a few months to a year it becomes a lot quicker.
__________________
I think that boxing is a lot like ballet, except there's no music or choreography and the dancers hit each other.
Thanks guys I am going to start a new program Today.I know it will seem as i am going backwards at first -because i have actually got pretty good at some Hendrix and Cream stuff.But i need to start over and learn the language ,not just the cuss words-lol.Thanks.
The ear training is hard for me ,maybe a mental thing maybe it is actually my ear,but i strugle with it no less.
There is a Mel Bay book called "Note Reading Studies for Bass" that IMHO is a great introduction to reading standard notation. It starts from the very beginning; if you have the most basic knowledge of the notes in the first 5 frets of the bass you can easily work through the first half of the book and you'll have a good enough understanding of notation to start using it regularly. The key is to be patient and don't expect to suddenly become fluent - just work through the exercizes slowly (without a metronome/drum machine) until you get it, then move on to the next execize.
There is a google books preview of it at http://books.google.com/books?id=hS...ng+Studies+for+Bass&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
-Y
I mentioned this in one of the previous threads but it's a very encouraging concept; a good ear is a skill not a fully developed talent that most people are born with. As such, it's something that can be developed over time. The more songs you learn or the more exercises you do, the more your fingers and ears become connected. You'll learn to recognize and identify patterns that you've heard or played in other songs.
It can be frustrating at times and doesn't happen overnight but it's really rewarding when you see the results forming. For me making a clear distinction between a skill and what I at first considered some mystical gift(some definitely start out quicker than others but still not fully developed) really motivated me to push on(not that I'm there yet but it's improving all the time).
Good luck and I apologise if I came across as preachy or patronizing in any way.
I've had this experience many times in my years of playing and learning. There are times when I'm working on playing a particularly difficult passage in a song, or I'm trying to learn a scale or mode, and I hit the wall like you said - it seems like I completely stop improving and no matter how much I work on it, I can't get it. I have found an almost sure-fire way of dealing with this problem - I basically give up and move on to working on something completely different (for example, if I can't play the difficult part in the song, I drop it and start working on other songs). The thing that always happens when I do that is I temporarily forget about the previous problem, then at some point in the future I remember what I was working on, I try it again, and it never fails that I can get it right away with very little problem.
The way I visualize this process is that it's like the flow of information in your brain related to that specific thing gets jammed up, and the harder you push, the more jammed up it gets. Letting go of it and moving on to something else lets the data congestion work itself loose, then when you go back to it, things flow freely and real development takes place. That's why I think it is important for a practice regiment to have enough diversity in it so that, when the data jam sets in, you can walk away from that specific part and do other things while it works itself out. The important thing is that all of the aspects of the practice regime have real musical content and worth, so you're never wasting time.
One thing I've realized from the JB thread is that musical development really involves walking a line - you have to push yourself and work at things, but, as Jeff has said many times, it is important to relax, do your exercises peacefully and out of time, accept the mistakes, and not let yourself get frustrated by the process. It can make it difficult to know when to keep pushing yourself and when enough is enough.
-Y
Thanks To All
not preachy at all -Thanks for taking the time to answer me.
Now i will get out of here and let Roy do his thing....
To the fellows who are lamenting the rate of their progress: Check out this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Keys-Success-Long-Term-Fulfillment/dp/0452267560
Mastery takes time, and you do best by getting really comfortable with what appears to be no progress, and perhaps even no ability. Keep at it. If you prefer suffering, then continue to gripe and resist where you are. I forget my own advice all the time, btw, and wish for things to be other than they are, musically and otherwise.
So I practice some more, both musically and philosophically.
Another good book is Effortless Mastery (Invalid Link Removed) by Kenny Werner.
http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Keys-Success-Long-Term-Fulfillment/dp/0452267560
Mastery takes time, and you do best by getting really comfortable with what appears to be no progress, and perhaps even no ability. Keep at it. If you prefer suffering, then continue to gripe and resist where you are. I forget my own advice all the time, btw, and wish for things to be other than they are, musically and otherwise.
So I practice some more, both musically and philosophically.
Another good book is Effortless Mastery (Invalid Link Removed) by Kenny Werner.
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Chad---
Perhaps you are trying to get to much musical information into your brain at once! I have a habit of doing that as well, fortunately in most of my endeavors I can absorb that info like a sponge when I am really into it. This music theory business is different though- the aural part is what slows us down- it apparently takes more time to absorb the sound into our minds than the facts. And "knowing" the sounds are what helps us really know the music facts- as opposed to just memorizing those musical facts. The human brain can only memorize so much info before new memorized info pushes the previously memorized stuff out.
Perhaps you are trying to get to much musical information into your brain at once! I have a habit of doing that as well, fortunately in most of my endeavors I can absorb that info like a sponge when I am really into it. This music theory business is different though- the aural part is what slows us down- it apparently takes more time to absorb the sound into our minds than the facts. And "knowing" the sounds are what helps us really know the music facts- as opposed to just memorizing those musical facts. The human brain can only memorize so much info before new memorized info pushes the previously memorized stuff out.
