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scales !!!!!! how do you do it ?

hey people im curious to find out your prefered way of practicing scales , ive noticed a couple different techniques floating around and want to see what ways not so much better or worse but what will suit me and my style , any replies would be greatly appreciated
cheers all
chet
 
I learn the intervals of the scale (eg: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half), and then I figure out a a good pattern on the fingerboard that I can start on any note, then I figure out all the other ways to play it in two octaves. Ascending and decending (mix it up, too; go up one way and down another). And then, I do it in thirds.
 
Running a scale from the root to root will just make you learn the fingerboard and it is a good warm-up exercise.

I prefer to play scale in 3rd, 4th,5th,6th and 7th on at least 2 octaves.

also start on different finger at different places on the fingerboard, play the scale from the lowest note to the highest. do different scales on one string ... like play G# major/minor on the Astring only.
 
When I practiced scales i practised them as has been mentioned in pacmans sure fire method and i practiced them harmonically, so that was keeping them in key rather than just following a random pattern.

So say i was practicing a C scale, i would take the lowest note available to me which on my standard P bass is an E then start my scale from there and go to the highest note available which was a D.
Because i played the whole length of the neck there are a number of options to take because the bass is tuned 4ths.
This is fret mapping, so working out my options, one may be to use all the open notes i can, so for A C scale that means using open E A D and G in my run to the top and back. Or it may be how i cross strings, or use one finger per fret, or what finger leads, working chromatically .....well you get the idea.

By practicing in this method i play the root scale which is C Major but also from the 6th i incorporate the natural minor scale of A....so i practice two scales together. I also practice the triads and extensions, so i play the 7th 9th, 11th and 13th notes as well...all this from just playing one scale from the lowest to the highest note available.

So once i play C Major i would them play D minor and repeat the process, bear in mind when i play the 3rd of D minor i incorporate an F Major scale in my practice....the relative Major/minor part of harmony takes care of itself, as does all triads and extensions again.

So this is a better use of practice, a more constructive use of time of you will as you are forming relationships between notes rather than random scattergun practice.
So take any key, work out how it can be harmonised and that is your scales focus for the week.

C is a basic Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, minor, diminished, Major use of any Major scale, and of course if you write out that pattern over three octaves and look at it as,
M-m-m-M-M-m-dim-M-m-m-M-M-m-dim-M-m-m-M-M-m-dim-
You will see the relationships, look at how that minor scale harmonises from the 6th for example, look at the relationship of the 4ths and 5ths etc.

But that could easily be Bb Major and use, BbM, Cm, Dm, EbM, FM, Gm, Adim if you wanted.

This is basic harmonisation in practice because you arrive at it by following you 'ear' so a great place to start. This is how i and thousands and thousands of other started, it gives you a foundation to build on and of course keeps practice relevant and fresh, tones the hands and fingers, develops the mind and the techniques involved.
Now write this out and study the theory behind it and you start to recognise these notes and keys on the sheet, you start to assign sharps and flats to keys, remember the use of accidentals etc etc...you improve in many ways with an organised practice that will deliver more than you may know.......because you cannot see it yet.
 
I used to do scales to 2 octaves, because someone I knew auditioned for a music school and that was considered a required ability, so I figured it was a good marker to hit.

Now what I do is I develop every scale in every position. I'm doing fretless and I want my intonation to improve so I'm playing very slowly and focusing on making my hands go where they need to without pain (my #1 experience developing fretless intonation is that it is painful if you go too fast, because you have to stretch those fingers further).

I also try to do this with my eyes closed or looking away from the fingerboard as much as possible.

Also, as far as modes, if you work on scales from all positions, you are effectively learning modes as well since they are just different arrangements of half and whole steps between two octaves.

I use a choir-like pattern that I change from time to time. Currently I go do-re-mi-do, re-mi-fa-re, mi-fa-sol-mi and so on, and then coming back down the same thing do-ti-la-do, ti-la-sol-ti, and so on.
 
Another thing i think is important to integrate into your practice is, once you know the scale patterns well, start practicing intervals within those scales. That will help your practice and ultimately your playing in general sound more musical. An example of what i mean is..
Most people practice their scales up and down (whether you're starting on the root, the lowest note or whatever), but try going up 2 scale degrees and down 1, up 2 down 1. Then on the way back, go down 2 and up 1.

Then do arpeggios.. 1 3 5, 2 4 6, 3 5 7, etc..

Make them up as you go.. 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2, 3 4 5 6 7 6 5 4, 5 6 7 8 9 8 7 6, etc.. Then you actually incorporate some melody. Don't get so used to playing scales up and down that you start thinking that way just because you practice it so much and your fingers are used to it.

And everybody i see practicing scales always practices on 8th notes. Try throwing in different rhythms figures into your scale practice, like triplets or syncopation.

@Fergue Fulton.. Great advice, but unless I'm not quite understanding correctly what you were explaining, it looks like you doubled the minor triad on the sixth degree of the scale in your example. Did you mean to type "M m m M M m dim"?
 
hey people im curious to find out your prefered way of practicing scales , ive noticed a couple different techniques floating around and want to see what ways not so much better or worse but what will suit me and my style , any replies would be greatly appreciated
cheers all
chet

I NEVER NEVER NEVER practice scales.

I learned the scales so I know the theory ...

There are no songs I can remember where the bass player is playng a 8 note major scale ... I mean really it is not very musical or melodic ... scales are dorky sounding ...

:bassist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIjobdArtiA

I practice rifs and songs

The only thing that sounds worse than scales is chopsticks on piano.
 
I NEVER NEVER NEVER practice scales.

I learned the scales so I know the theory ...

There are no songs I can remember where the bass player is playng a 8 note major scale ... I mean really it is not very musical or melodic ... scales are dorky sounding ...

:bassist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIjobdArtiA

I practice rifs and songs

The only thing that sounds worse than scales is chopsticks on piano.

I understand what you mean, and i agree that scales don't sound musical in general. However, i have to assume you're probably more often playing songs that aren't necessarily difficult to understand from a music theory point of view.? Please, don't take that the wrong way, i just mean you probably aren't trying to transcribe a Paul Chambers bass solo like some others may be trying to do on here.

Scales are more than just an exercise for your fingers and learning the notes on your bass. Scales are the key to knowing what to play and understanding what others are playing when it comes to music like jazz, particularly improvisation. And knowing the theory behind the scales like you mentioned is key. But practicing is still required for most people for that knowledge to truly sink in.

Now, I love 3 chord rock as much as the next guy too. And when it comes to writing basslines for normal songs, i try to just use my imagination and my ear. But when it comes to playing a solo over 7th and 9th chords and modulating keys, knowing your scales at least gives you a choice of notes, that will "work" with what's going on around you.. a starting point for the basic harmony that's going on in the (otherwise complicated) music.

So, I'm just saying, learning and practicing scales is not necessarily needed for some types of music, but it can be a huge help for others.
 
I learn the intervals of the scale (eg: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half), and then I figure out a a good pattern on the fingerboard that I can start on any note, then I figure out all the other ways to play it in two octaves. Ascending and decending (mix it up, too; go up one way and down another). And then, I do it in thirds.

That is the interval distance between notes, I wouldn't advise this method. This is what I used to learn scales and it was not nearly as helpful was actually learning the intervals.

So, instead of viewing Ionian as W-W-H-W-W-W-H, you would view it as Root-major2-major3-perfect4-perfect5-major6-major7-octave. I found this to be a much smarter way to think of the scales, it is also far more practical in the field. Otherwise you have to remember how many whole's and half's you moved.

As far as practicing them, I have been meaning to do pacmans method but I don't really run scales these days, if I do, I try to for everything in 2 octaves. Remembering to come down the same way I went up.
 
@Fergue Fulton.. Great advice, but unless I'm not quite understanding correctly what you were explaining, it looks like you doubled the minor triad on the sixth degree of the scale in your example. Did you mean to type "M m m M M m dim"?

Sorry, yes you have it and my mistake, a cut and paste without my glasses on, LOL, thanks.
edited and now corrected.
 
That is the interval distance between notes, I wouldn't advise this method. This is what I used to learn scales and it was not nearly as helpful was actually learning the intervals.

So, instead of viewing Ionian as W-W-H-W-W-W-H, you would view it as Root-major2-major3-perfect4-perfect5-major6-major7-octave. I found this to be a much smarter way to think of the scales, it is also far more practical in the field. Otherwise you have to remember how many whole's and half's you moved.


If you go to school to learn music, your professor will tell you that the major scale is w-w-h-w-w-w-h. There is also no such thing as a "major second." The minor scale is w-h-w-w-h-w-w. Ergo, the "major second" you refer to is the exact same thing as a "minor second." What about a "diminshed second?" There's no such thing, harmonically speaking it's a ninth.

I'm not talking about modes. I don't call a major scale ionian on a routine basis. A minor scale is generally not called locrian in my book, unless I specifically say or write the word "mode" (even though, yes, modes are scales).

I used the major scale (emphasis on major, not ionian) as a good starting example, and this is real basic stuff that I'm talking about. If I were to say w-h-w-w-h-w-w, I'd be refering to minor, not locrian. That's the starting point for knowing your theory, fingerboard, note names (you'd not be surprised by how many times I see A# and E# as note names on the board). What I'm talking about are harmonic scales that teach the different keys, what we use as a basis to learn Western harmony. Major, minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor. Start with those, and then learn how to structure a chord (based on scale tones, the most basic of which is 1-3-5), which let's you learn your diatonics, which let's you have much clearer picture of how music works. Until you have a real firm grasp of that, don't start confusing yourself with modes.

Modern modes are different, and I view them as extensions of scales. Mixolydian is just a major scale that starts on the fifth. Lydian is a major scale that starts on the fourth. That's the way to look at the mode type of scale. Ionian, I'm not sure if you know this or not, is a major scale that starts on the one. Tonic. And a major scale is w-w-h-w-w-w-h.

There's a real gap in the understanding what people mean when they write "scales" in a talkbass forum. When I read the word "scales," I'm thinking the stuff that Western harmony is built on. I've seen a lot of comments about how scales are stupid and you don't need to know an ionian scale to know what notes are in a major chord. I see a lot of putting the cart in front of the ass.

If you feel like you're smarter than me because you know that the ionian scale has a major second in it, good for you. Great, continue to educate me.
 
So, I'm just saying, learning and practicing scales is not necessarily needed for some types of music, but it can be a huge help for others.

I definitely agree with this, learning scales has especially helped me in improvisation, writing music as well as deciphering a song more efficiently. Knowing how certain notes in a certain pattern, sound a certain way makes it so much easier.

And sure, it can feel unmusical at times but it doesn't have to be. If it feels boring, piece together notes in that particular scale in a melody that appeals to you and do that.
 
This can get very confusing so I'm going to do my best to explain this "major 2nd/minor 2nd" thing.

A major second is defined simply as the distance of 1 whole step (up or down in pitch). A minor 2nd is the distance of 1 half step (up or down in pitch).
Example: D is one whole step down (a.k.a. a major 2nd down) from E.
Example: C# is one half step up (a.k.a. a minor 2nd up) from C.
Likewise, a major 3rd is the distance of 2 whole steps (up or down in pitch). And a minor 3rd?.. a step and a half (up or down).

What DiabolusInMusic was referring to was, that D is the 2nd scale degree of C major. The distance from C to D is a "major 2nd" (as explained above). However in DiabolusInMusic's example of "Root-major2-major3-perfect4-perfect5-major6-major7-octave", all of those intervals are that note (a.k.a. degree of the scale) in comparison to the root in that major scale. In other words..
The 1st note (a.k.a. "degree") of the scale is the root.
The 2nd note of the scale is the distance of a "major 2nd" FROM THE ROOT.
The 3rd note of the scale is the distance a "major 3rd" FROM THE ROOT. And so on..

Now, don't confuse this with what the chords are that are built off those different degrees of the scale. These chords are not called a "major 2nd" or a "minor 3rd", etc.. They are called the "2 chord", or the "5 chord", or the "3 chord".. and these chords can be major, minor and even diminished - all within the same MAJOR key/scale. So..

The "2" chord of a major scale is a minor chord. Let's use C major as the key (and the scale)..
D is the root of the "2 chord" in the key of C. The notes of the D chord in that key are D, F and A. These notes are the 2nd, 4th and 6th degrees of the C major scale. We don't usually refer to these as "major or minor" intervals (as compared to the root) in this case, because we are just talking about the 2nd, 4th and 6th notes in the C major scale. The intervallic distance between those notes and the root are all "major" intervals in a major scale (although the 4th and 5th are called "perfect intervals" because they are the same distance from the root note whether you are in the major or the minor scale).

If you follow me so far, great.
D, F and A when played together are a D minor chord. So, even though the D is a "major 2nd interval" from C, the D chord in the key of C (a.k.a. the "2" chord) is a minor chord.

C major (which has no sharps or flats) consists of the notes C - D - E - F - G - A - B - (C):
1) The "1 chord" (made up of the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale) is a major chord - CEG
2) The "2 chord" (2nd, 4th and 6th notes of the same C major scale) is a minor chord - DFA
3) The "3 chord" (3rd, 5th and 7th) is a minor chord - EGB
4) The "4 chord" (4th, 6th and 1st) is a major chord - FAC
5) The "5 chord" (5th, 7th and 2nd) is a major chord - GBD
6) The "6 chord" (6th, 1st and 3rd) is a minor chord - ACE
7) The "7 chord" (7th, 2nd and 4th) is a diminished chord - BDF

And now we are back to the root note again. So you see how there are minor chords and even a diminished chord that are associated with, and use the natural notes of the key of C MAJOR.

This is hard stuff to explain outside of a classroom or regular lessons, but hopefully what I'm saying makes sense. Basically, I'm just saying that a lot of people get intervals confused with the "2 chord" or the "_ chord". Another example of the difference is:
The "3 chord" in a minor key is a Major chord, however the interval between the root and the 3rd degree of the minor scale is a minor 3rd.

Another way to think about it is, a major scale is:
W-W-H-W-W-W-H (in steps) which is also the same as saying it's a:
Maj2nd - Maj2nd - minor2nd - Major2nd - Major2nd - Major2nd - minor2nd

The chords built off those scale degees are:
1 chord Major - 2 chord minor - 3 chord minor - 4 chord Major - 5 chord Major - 6 chord minor - 7 chord diminished

And to go back to DiabolusInMusic's example, the intevallic distance from each scale degree to the root note is:
root, Major 2nd, Major 3rd, Perfect 4th (remember, no major or minor for 4ths and 5ths), Perfect 5th, major 6th, Major 7th.
^^Just don't confuse what he was saying with the types of chords that those degrees of the scale make within that scale.

In the natural minor scale, the notes are all minor intervals compared to the root note (except for the 2nd):
root, Major 2nd, minor 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, minor 6th, minor 7th.
 
This can get very confusing so I'm going to do my best to explain this "major 2nd/minor 2nd" thing.

A major second is defined simply as the distance of 1 whole step (up or down in pitch). A minor 2nd is the distance of 1 half step (up or down in pitch).
Example: D is one whole step down (a.k.a. a major 2nd down) from E.
Example: C# is one half step up (a.k.a. a minor 2nd up) from C.
Likewise, a major 3rd is the distance of 2 whole steps (up or down in pitch). And a minor 3rd?.. a step and a half (up or down).

Interval only work one way, from the lowest to the highest so that is up, never back the way, so never down.
Intervals are easy to describe because we talk of an intervals quality, the quality belongs to the function.
When talking about intervals we talk of there quality, it is the interval quality that can be a Major second or a minor second, do not confuse this with scale degrees.
A tone is a Major 2nd, a semitone is a minor 2nd......it is that simple.
Interval quality is describes as Perfect, Major, minor, augmented or diminished, keep it this simple when learning them and you will have a solid foundation to build other more intricate ideas on.:)