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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

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#221
Brian Barrett said:
Official spec sensitivity for those interested. Will be on the site shortly.


1010: 102db SPL @ 1W/1M

1210: 102db SPL @ 1W/1M

1212: 103db SPL @ 1W/1M

101010: 103db SPL @ 1W/1M

21012: 104db SPL @ 1W/1M

410: 103db SPL @ 1W/1M
Click to expand...

The Berg HT322 is rated at 104db @ 2.83v/1m.

It would be interesting to compare the measurements of the decibel levels at 1m increments in a typical club environment (out to say 15m) for a conventional 4x10 (with a 103db efficiency rating) and a Schroeder 410.

I don't think with the Schroeders, the above ratings really tell you everything going on efficiency-wise in a real-world music environment.

I practiced tonight with my band using the Schroeder 410 for the 1st time in our practice studio. It is definitely louder at a lower gain setting than the HT322 was in the same room.
 
#222
lo-freq said:
I practiced tonight with my band using the Schroeder 410 for the 1st time in our practice studio. It is definitely louder at a lower volume setting than the HT322 was in the same room.
Click to expand...

How did you and your band mates like its tone and sound in that setting compared to the 322?
 
#223
KenToby said:
A German company called TECHSOUNSYSTEMS went with this exact set-up a few years back in both a cabinet and a compact 2x12 combo amp called the PEPMAN 400. They have since discontinued the line (They may offer somthing similar in their current line however, I don't know).

I have the combo which includes a piezo tweeter (crossover, Speakons, 1/4, and tweeter attenuator).
It came with a 2 space rack mount amp and a single open space above that. I put my Eden head and tuner in it. It was great before, now it's AWSOME, nice to look at too.
There was a cab for sale a couple of months ago here on TB. Go snag it!!

KT
Click to expand...
Yeah, we kind of covered the Tech similarities already
(I...uh...may of had something to do with it :hiding: ).

I have the CT2000 (the 2x12). I actually had 2 at one point.
I never saw the Pepman 400. Any pix?
 
#224
I agree with Pete.

Im looking for a new bigger louder rig right now and these cabs look like what I need based on reviews and weight specs.

Unfortunately logic says they arent.

Logic says they should be lacking in bass.

Logic could say they arent if I read some solid specs that didnt mess around. a +-3 db rating for the top to bottom end would be nice. Another +-6 and +- 10 rating would be nicer to let me know how sharp the roll off is.

If I find out that the reviews are dead on Im ordering a 410 and probably a 1212 too. They sound like the thing a hard rock bassist playing against two wide open half stacks who lives on the third floor of a college dorm needs.

Till then, I dont think Im willing to pay for a cab I might have to return (and pay to return).
 
#225
inazone said:
How did you and your band mates like its tone and sound in that setting compared to the 322?
Click to expand...

Better...


More solid and articulate (in a warm, meaty way) in the very low end up through the upper mid-bass. I'm boosting the mids more and cutting the treble less to get a great cut-through tone.

The more I play through it the more I like it. Last night I asked one of my guitarist how the cab sounded, he just got a big grin on his face and said "Great".
 
#226
Petebass said:
Well you're not physically able to hear them, you make a call based on reviews and specs. I've often painted a picture in my head of a cab's sound based on specs, then trialed it for myself to find out I was on the right track. I'm right more often than I'm wrong on this.

Personally I put more emphasis on certain specs than others and the ones I really like are Efficiency, and the -3dB point. I also like to see -10dB point, a frequency response graph, and cabinet tuning frequency, but most manufacturers don't publish these because it can often reveal things about the design and performance the manufacturer would prefer to keep secret. They don't realise all this stuff is easily measured. All you need is a cab owner to agree to it, and I've never had anyone say no. They're usually too curious themselves.

Don't forget Brian, these cabs appear to defy the laws of physics. Loud, low, and small? Usually you can pick 2 and sacrifice the third. If this is the case, then Jorg may well have achieved every other speaker manufacturer in history has strived for but have only managed progress in baby steps. Personally I hope he indeed has. We know they're small; those efficiency specs indicate they're loud; to the casual observer it would seem that the obvious sacrifice here would be in the low end. Could the angled-speaker-semi-horn have overcome that? The reviews tell me there's enough bottom end there, but reviews are just opinions and opinions vary from person to person. A dB meter is less subjective.
Click to expand...

Well, it's hard to say whether or not this cabinet really is breaking the laws of physics. After all, it's not a subwoofer... while a published 40Hz handling may sound deep, there are deeper cabs out there. There are also louder cabs out there as well. The Eden 410XLT, going by published stats, is louder and deeper as well, but much heavier and larger. Of course, published stats don't really tell you how it sounds ;) It's possible that in using the space saving folding technique, the 24lb. difference between the cabs was lost. These cabs may seem like a miracle, but overall the design isn't all that crazy.

By the way, has anyone tried comparing these cabs to an Epifani? I'm wondering how they stack up against a 3x10 and/or 4x10.
 
#228
lo-freq said:
The Berg HT322 is rated at 104db @ 2.83v/1m.
Click to expand...

WHAT??? I would have thought that an EE like Jim would be the LAST person on earth to use that potentially deceptive practice!!!

The Berg 322 is a 4 ohm cab, and 2.83V into 4 ohms is 2 watts, not 1 watt. Anyone can see that if a cab driven with 2 watts instead of 1 watt will be louder, 3dB louder to be precise. So that makes the 322 look more efficient (on paper) than it really is. See the problem?

Correcting for true one-watt power, the 322 would then be 101d/W/m.

Lo-Freq, I hope you have your info correct because if Berg is really using 2.83V instead of the industry-standard 1 watt, it's skewing the comparisons to other cabs (unless they too are using this trick).

Nightbass (a Bergie owner, btw, with more on the way)
 
#229
Andy Lewis has a lengthy article on his website about this very subject, warning you to be aware of it.

I think it boils down to whether or not the manufacturer publishes (or the buyer knows) the ohmage of the cab in question.

Into 4 ohms it is indeed 2 watts, and the practice of listing the spec this way seems a bit misleading. But if you're aware of the ohmage (and this topic) it shouldn't be a huge subject of debate.

I agree, though: I wish all manufacturers would stick to one set of standards when publishing specs.

(Miles-per-gallon became MPG Highway / MPG city - perhaps sensitivity ratings will follow suit , listing 2/4/8 Ohms) :D
 
#230
Nightbass said:
WHAT??? I would have thought that an EE like Jim would be the LAST person on earth to use that potentially deceptive practice!!!

The Berg 322 is a 4 ohm cab, and 2.83V into 4 ohms is 2 watts, not 1 watt. Anyone can see that if a cab driven with 2 watts instead of 1 watt will be louder, 3dB louder to be precise. So that makes the 322 look more efficient (on paper) than it really is. See the problem?

Correcting for true one-watt power, the 322 would then be 101d/W/m.

Lo-Freq, I hope you have your info correct because if Berg is really using 2.83V instead of the industry-standard 1 watt, it's skewing the comparisons to other cabs (unless they too are using this trick).

Nightbass (a Bergie owner, btw, with more on the way)
Click to expand...
I forgot I saw that. I was meaning to ask how many Watts that translated into since I knew something was up.
 
#232
Some strong assumptions being made and off the cuff statements towards cab manufactures.

People; be a little considerate about your statements you make even if there in joking fun.

You might not always be correct in your idea behind how things should be rates or even what the number’s sound like, and to slam or question ones motive publicly with out calling and asking the question directly can make you look bad in the end.

Not saying anyone can't question idea's or thought pattern's, but be careful in the way attack someone.

Just be considerate, Thanks
Brian
 
#238
Brian Barrett said:
Some strong assumptions being made and off the cuff statements towards cab manufactures.

People; be a little considerate about your statements you make even if there in joking fun.

You might not always be correct in your idea behind how things should be rates or even what the number’s sound like, and to slam or question ones motive publicly with out calling and asking the question directly can make you look bad in the end.

Not saying anyone can't question idea's or thought pattern's, but be careful in the way attack someone.

Just be considerate, Thanks
Brian
Click to expand...



i was about to post teh same thing. there is no need to call someone a liar. it seems that there are always groups that suport his or her favorite product blindly and in this case i seem to be one of those people. these cabs are great FOR ME. i think they are better than bergie and epifani. TO ME. i agree there should be uniformity in specs but look at power amps. all of the specs are listed and the specs say that they should be identical and there should be no audible sound difference, however there are guys on here who SWEAR they can hear a difference. 2 cabs with the same specs can still sound different. until jorg gets the specs , know they sound good. doesnt seem slike jorg has anything to hide, just maybe he is a bot overwelmed by the responce and intrest his cabs have gotten and maybe he wasnt ready for it.
 
#239
Nightbass said:
WHAT??? I would have thought that an EE like Jim would be the LAST person on earth to use that potentially deceptive practice!!!

The Berg 322 is a 4 ohm cab, and 2.83V into 4 ohms is 2 watts, not 1 watt. Anyone can see that if a cab driven with 2 watts instead of 1 watt will be louder, 3dB louder to be precise. So that makes the 322 look more efficient (on paper) than it really is. See the problem?

Correcting for true one-watt power, the 322 would then be 101d/W/m.

Lo-Freq, I hope you have your info correct because if Berg is really using 2.83V instead of the industry-standard 1 watt, it's skewing the comparisons to other cabs (unless they too are using this trick).

Nightbass (a Bergie owner, btw, with more on the way)
Click to expand...

I got it off his website www.bergantino.com
Go to the 'Products' link and scroll down to the HT322 info.
 
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