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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

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hmmm...

I am playing an all tube head (VBA 400) so i figure powering any of these shouldnt be too hard. But the problem is i have so many different sounds that i use for different portions of different songs. My main sound would have to be that slightly overdriven middy bass growl. But there are times i prefer to be FELT and not heard as much, and in other parts put down a big low end cushion and so forth. I figure from what I've read that the best option for me would be the 410, am i right. I believe it was once described as a 'chameleon' (dont pressure me on the spelling)...any advice?
 
the 410 has no lack of bottom end. There's plenty of volume and punch with this cab also as attested to by many of us who have one. I'd love to hear one driven by a tube monster amp like your Marshall or a mesa 400+, or a Trace v8, or aguilar 728, or any of the 300 watters out there.

Here's how I'd see it....the louder you get, the more the 12's are gonna influence the tone with the 310212. That's my opinion, right or wrong. If your variety of tones you use are easy attained through a stomp and click or a small tweak on your guitar for instance, maybe the 310212 light would be a great solution for you.

So far there has been no need for any PA assistance for me when I use my 410....the band has had to "put up" with stage volume they are definitely not used to in some rooms, but no one's really complained that much (except our soundtech occasionally), but if you're essentially using the cabinet as a way for you and your band to hear you, and using PA support for the audience or at least most of the audience, you really in my opinion again, don't need a 310212.

My last however statement to chew on: the light and "standard" 310212 is only a couple hundred dollars more than a 410. My 410 standard weighs MORE than the 310212 light, takes less wattage, is less efficient, hasn't got as low a frequency response, but I'll bet dimes to donuts it's still probably louder than you're likely to need and can reproduce every tone you're looking for in spades.

What definitive advantage I see of the 310212 is height and a speaker, a 10 incher at that, being closer to your ears. If the added roundness and lows are too much on a given tune or venue, you can always turn down the lower end on your amp, bass, eq, etc. and turn up the low mids a little to compensate. That's what I had to do last night...there was not a huge crowd at the local House of Blues and my bass, in spite of my best intentions was a bit more rumbly than I'm used to hearing. It took me a few tunes but I cut a few dbs off of everything 150hz and down, slightly boosted my 250 on the bass, turned up slightly and we were much more compatible with the rooms acoustics.

I and several others of us had hard decisions to make cabwise too.....like between a 1210 or 1212, or a 410 and a 21012, and some are now having like you are a decision between the large and extra cabinets. If you're unsupported PA wise, get the 310212. If you have PA support, I don't feel you'd have any issues with volume, bottom end or punch with the 410, especially with a strong tube head.

good luck, tell us what you end up doing or if you have any other questions.

LKaye
 
I received my 310212 a few weeks ago and have been using it a fair bit as well as sorting out a few issues, some were reasonably significant. I am planning on posting a large review of this cabinet in the next few weeks, and drawing some comparisons to my El Whappo.

However, I'd like to make a comment to those who have experienced less-than-stellar sound. Definitely check the wiring! I had a problem hearing myself on the first gig I played with this, and later by doing the 9-volt batter test, determined that one of the 12s was out of phase with the other four speakers. Then, I also discovered that the speakers weren't connected in their correct series-parallel configuration, so they weren't dividing power evenly. I fixed this and NOW it works fine, but that was definitely unacceptable. It does startle me that problems like that can occur. It's also scary, since this ran the possibility of damaging the amplifier - the cabinet was 3 ohms in its shipped wiring configuration (not measured, calculated based on nominal impedances for the drivers, same way any other cab is rated).

Anyway, I will elaborate more on this and other topics in my review, but I wanted to have this information here for reference.

Edited for grammar
 
thumbman said:
hey

I was looking for some info, i did a search but couldnt find it, i feel bad posting here because i hate adding to the ginormosity of this thread.

The 310212, does it have the punch of the 410 or does it give up punch for low end?

because it has the 10s and 12s in that quantity i sort of see it as the punch of the 410 PLUS the depth of the 21012 or 1212...can anyone confirm or deny or set me on the path of rightousness?

thanks

I have one, and I noticed that even with my amp EQ set realatively flat, I picked up low end & punch by going to this cab. I typically used an eden or swr stack for the past 10 yrs., this cab is in a league of it's own. The lows are full and clean, and even notes higher up the neck all seem to have an "impact" to them that I haven't heard/felt in other cabs I've owned. The mids are very present now, without being in your face. I have the tweeter turned all the way off. This is as close to that "sound in my head" that I've ever come. I may be there already, I've only used it on 2 gigs and I'm still getting used to it.
 
The 3101212 is way more punchy than any other 410 I've tried or owned, without being boomy. But it can rumble with the best of them at the dubby lows, but doesn't have to either.

I think that's the beauty of the bigger drivers in there, you can cut your low lows and still be meaty while being punchy as hell at the same time, a killer combo.
 
BassIan said:
I received my 310212 a few weeks ago and have been using it a fair bit as well as sorting out a few issues, some were reasonably significant...

However, I'd like to make a comment to those who have experienced less-than-stellar sound. Definitely check the wiring! I had a problem hearing myself on the first gig I played with this, and later by doing the 9-volt batter test, determined that one of the 12s was out of phase with the other four speakers. Then, I also discovered that the speakers weren't connected in their correct series-parallel configuration, so they weren't dividing power evenly. I fixed this and NOW it works fine, but that was definitely unacceptable. It does startle me that problems like that can occur. It's also scary, since this ran the possibility of damaging the amplifier - the cabinet was 3 ohms in its shipped wiring configuration (not measured, calculated based on nominal impedances for the drivers, same way any other cab is rated).

After reading this post I was quite shocked to hear this, and seeing as I haven't quite been experiencing the sound I expected out of my 310212, I checked my cab with a 9 volt battery too, and guess what! the top 12 inch speaker was out of phase too!

It is quite likely that my cab was from the same batch as BassIans as well!

Does anyone know how this cab is meant to be corectly wired - does anyone have a schematic or something I can use to check my wiring?

This is not a shipping damage defect, and not something I expect to encounter in a cab of this quality and price.

I have mailer Jorg, and am currently awaiting his reply. From my previous conversations with him, I'm sure he will be able to sort me out a.s.a.p.

As far as customer service goes at least, Jorg has been top notch so far.
 
to 410 or 21012 users.

I had a look at how high these come. Not high at all.

Doesnt it feel weird to not have a speaker close to you?

i suppose i am used to 'normal' cabs and need a speaker as close as possible to my head in order to be comfortable.

Is there any loss of deffinition as the speakers are so low?

Does anyone prop these up when not using more than one cab?

Did anyone else feel a bit weird about going from a normal 410 or an 810 to a 410 so low to the ground?

Also the news about the schroes wiring distresses me.:( Please keep the group well informed.
 
I've never been one who likes stacking or putting cabinets on milkcrates or chairs etc. I don't want or have really needed to have cabinets are ear level. When I use the 1210 which is even "shorter" than the 410, I have no problem hearing the cab and the highs can lose a little definition that way, but the punch, clarity, and everything else these cabinets seem to possess are easy to get used to at "Knee Level" with a 410or "shin level" with a 1210 or 1212, or waist level with a 310212.

I absolutely would not let the knee vs upper thigh height of some but not all other 410's deter you or concern you from considering or buying the Schroeder.

Lkaye
 
Son of Bovril said:
After reading this post I was quite shocked to hear this, and seeing as I haven't quite been experiencing the sound I expected out of my 310212, I checked my cab with a 9 volt battery too, and guess what! the top 12 inch speaker was out of phase too!

It is quite likely that my cab was from the same batch as BassIans as well!

Does anyone know how this cab is meant to be corectly wired - does anyone have a schematic or something I can use to check my wiring?

This is not a shipping damage defect, and not something I expect to encounter in a cab of this quality and price.

I have mailer Jorg, and am currently awaiting his reply. From my previous conversations with him, I'm sure he will be able to sort me out a.s.a.p.

As far as customer service goes at least, Jorg has been top notch so far.

I do not suggest simply switching the polarity of the connetors to the out of phase speaker.

The correct configuration according to Jorg is as follows: Two 4 ohm 12" drivers are in series. The two 8 ohm 10s are in series, with that pair now parallel with the 16 ohm 10. Then, each side is made parallel. I took the back off the cab, drew the circuit as it was wired, then drew it as I wanted, and it really only involved switching the location of one wire.

Definitely talk to Jorg and see what he says. Keep in mind that it's not likely just out of phase, but the way mine was wired, the one 12" was getting most of the power, because it was in parallel with the other 12 that was in series with all three tens (the tens were wired correctly in their series-parallel configuration). So the one 12 was getting a fraction of the power of the other 12.

Indeed, this was quite disappointing to me. It's strange because the person who assembles these cabinets really has no way of knowing how to assemble them quickly - there are only black and white wires, and because of the nature of the connections they don't necessarily mean positive or negative.

I'd like Jorg to speak up on here about this, and as I only discovered this on Thursday night, I'll be emailing him quite soon.
 
BassIan - thanx for the reply

The upper 12 that was out of phase only had 2 wires connected to it, so I just switched them round, and it put everything back in phase, but I did notice what you were talking about where the one 12 was moving more than the other 12 when I tested it with the 9volt battery, so I guess it is quite possible that the rest of the speakers are not correctly wired.

Ps. Once you had rewired your cab, did it make a significant difference?

I did quote part of your previous post in my mail to Jorg as a referance for what I was talking about, and am still awaiting his reply.

I will keep you informed of what is happening...
 
BassIan said:
I do not suggest simply switching the polarity of the connetors to the out of phase speaker.

The correct configuration according to Jorg is as follows: Two 4 ohm 12" drivers are in series. The two 8 ohm 10s are in series, with that pair now parallel with the 16 ohm 10. Then, each side is made parallel. I took the back off the cab, drew the circuit as it was wired, then drew it as I wanted, and it really only involved switching the location of one wire.

Definitely talk to Jorg and see what he says. Keep in mind that it's not likely just out of phase, but the way mine was wired, the one 12" was getting most of the power, because it was in parallel with the other 12 that was in series with all three tens (the tens were wired correctly in their series-parallel configuration). So the one 12 was getting a fraction of the power of the other 12.

Indeed, this was quite disappointing to me. It's strange because the person who assembles these cabinets really has no way of knowing how to assemble them quickly - there are only black and white wires, and because of the nature of the connections they don't necessarily mean positive or negative.

I'd like Jorg to speak up on here about this, and as I only discovered this on Thursday night, I'll be emailing him quite soon.
Doesn't that mean one of the 10" is getting 2x the power of the other 10" drivers?
 
Joined the club today with a new-to-me Schroeder 1212!

Looking forward to using this at a gig with my new-to-me ThunderFunk TFB420, but right now I'm extremely impressed!
 
BassIan said:
The correct configuration according to Jorg is as follows: Two 4 ohm 12" drivers are in series. The two 8 ohm 10s are in series, with that pair now parallel with the 16 ohm 10. Then, each side is made parallel. I took the back off the cab, drew the circuit as it was wired, then drew it as I wanted, and it really only involved switching the location of one wire.

That's an interesting wiring scheme. I wonder how he came up with that?
It does give you a 4 ohm total load, which is nice; but the power is distributed a bit unevenly. If I did the math right, each twelve gets 25% of the total. The 16-ohm ten also gets 25% of the total. Each of the 8-ohm tens gets 12.5% of the total. No big deal, i suppose.
 
slinkp said:
That's an interesting wiring scheme. I wonder how he came up with that?
It does give you a 4 ohm total load, which is nice; but the power is distributed a bit unevenly. If I did the math right, each twelve gets 25% of the total. The 16-ohm ten also gets 25% of the total. Each of the 8-ohm tens gets 12.5% of the total. No big deal, i suppose.

That's correct, but I suppose that's as close to ideal as it gets with 5 drivers...

It's not nearly as drastic as when I had it as he shipped it, with one of the twelves getting a tiny fraction of the power.

I'm really concerned about this.
 
Son of Bovril said:
BassIan - thanx for the reply

The upper 12 that was out of phase only had 2 wires connected to it, so I just switched them round, and it put everything back in phase, but I did notice what you were talking about where the one 12 was moving more than the other 12 when I tested it with the 9volt battery, so I guess it is quite possible that the rest of the speakers are not correctly wired.

Ps. Once you had rewired your cab, did it make a significant difference?

I did quote part of your previous post in my mail to Jorg as a referance for what I was talking about, and am still awaiting his reply.

I will keep you informed of what is happening...

Yeah, that's what I noticed. I did that at first, then realized that I had to actually switch a different wire instead, which fixed the problem of uneven distribution of power between 12s. It did make a significant difference to the cabinet's sound.

I had to actually draw this out as a circuit schematic to figure out what was wrong, but once I did that it was obvious what I had to do.

Hope this helps!
 
nad said:
Joined the club today with a new-to-me Schroeder 1212!

Looking forward to using this at a gig with my new-to-me ThunderFunk TFB420, but right now I'm extremely impressed!

I use that combo a lot, still makes me happy!!
 
I think I replied similarly before in this thread...

Is there a good reason why 3 8 ohm 10s couldn't be in parallel for 2.6 ohms in series with two 4 ohm 12s in parallel giving you just about 4 ohms with each group of drivers getting just about the same power?
 
BassIan said:
That's correct, but I suppose that's as close to ideal as it gets with 5 drivers...

It's not nearly as drastic as when I had it as he shipped it, with one of the twelves getting a tiny fraction of the power.

I'm really concerned about this.
Don't be. I was talking to Jorg about stuff and mentioned the stuff in this thread about the miswirings, and he said this:

yes, we had problems with 3x 310212s due to the sad fact that my technician has (edit: a very serious health problem)

I already took care of these 3 cabinet problems by sending out wiring diagrams, spare woofers and the offer to pay for labor if the customer wants to take it to a tech and have it professionally checked out.

We're all humans and unexpected things happen.
Pretty typically top shelf support from Jorg, IMHO.

Suggest anyone with questions about wiring email/call Jorg. He'll take care of you (as usual).
 
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