Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[KJung]

I'd probably contradict that statement with my experience with the 3101212. While I've not actually tried any of the others, I can say without doubt that it has tons of mid punch, moreso than any other cab I've used. It is capable of big bottom but it isn't a default characteristic. Maybe it's the extra 10 or 2 compared to the others that helps.

I actually run mine mostly for the low mid punch than the fat lows, cutting 30hz significantly.

The signature Schroeder sound is very mid punchy. My comments were not comparing a Schroeder to other cabs, but rather a direct comparison of different Schroeders to one another. I also believe my 1212 has a lot of mid punch... but not as much as the 1210. I don not know exactly how this will translate to the larger cabs, although I have heard from others that the tone relationship between the 410 and 21012 is similar to the tone relationship between the 1210 and 1212.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'd probably contradict that statement with my experience with the 3101212. While I've not actually tried any of the others, I can say without doubt that it has tons of mid punch, moreso than any other cab I've used. It is capable of big bottom but it isn't a default characteristic. Maybe it's the extra 10 or 2 compared to the others that helps.

I actually run mine mostly for the low mid punch than the fat lows, cutting 30hz significantly.

The Schroeders aren't necessarily known for 'fat lows'...but that's what I use mine for. I have to 'push' the cab a bit in the low end of the EQ, but the cab handles it well and doesn't complain or get muddy/undefined.

Its a nice thing to get sub-like low end with the low/mid punch that defines the cab. It means you get a faster attack than most cabs. I've had several drummers point out that the cab is punchy as hell even if my mids aren't cranked (they seldom are).

 

[Norwegianwood]

I´m very happy with my 1210 for electric - but not that found of its sound for my upright. I can´t get rid of that "bumpy" sound - famous from old jazz recordings. I wanna have a thinner, more clear and modern sound, that the cab doesn´t deliver.
On the other hand - I´m sure that someone with better knowledge of EQ could do some magic with my Thunderfunk.

There´s no doubt, however, that schroeder is my first choice in terms of value and sound/size issues.

 

[Bassin' 'Round]

Looking for cab dimensions on the 410 & 21012. Found the size of the 1212 (23x16x16) in one of the very first posts. Little help on the 410 & 21012?

 

[Larry Kaye]

The 410 and 21012 are the same size...they're also exactly the same width as the 1210 & 1212...23 inches (maybe it's 23.5 I'm gonna get my tape measure out, but the worse case is a 1/2 inch off on the width.

The 410 and 21012 are square so let's say for simplicity's sake, they're either 23.5x23.5x16 or 23x23x16.

Are you in process of figuring out which cabinet might best suit your needs? Tell us a little about your gigs...size of room, band volume on stage, PA support or not, style of music. General "tone" you currently use and what might you want, if anything to change? What cab are you currently using? What bass and head are you using or intend to use if you decide to Schroederize?

You'll get some great advice/recommendations here from us devoted users to the "Man-Jorg" himself.

Larry Kaye

 

[coyoteboy]

The signature Schroeder sound is very mid punchy. My comments were not comparing a Schroeder to other cabs, but rather a direct comparison of different Schroeders to one another. I also believe my 1212 has a lot of mid punch... but not as much as the 1210. I don not know exactly how this will translate to the larger cabs, although I have heard from others that the tone relationship between the 410 and 21012 is similar to the tone relationship between the 1210 and 1212.

If it makes a difference, Jorg's recommendation for matching up medium and large cabs was 1210+21012, or 1212+410.

I've got the former on order, couple more weeks............

 

[pdao99]

this probably has already been discussed here and i apologize if it has... but has anybody A/B'ed the schroeder 1212 to a pair of aguilar gs-112's? specifically regarding the low end...which one is thicker, richer, and bigger and which one produces the fundamental of the low b better? thanks alot...there's alot of good info here but this thread is just too damn big!!!

 

[Vic]

this probably has already been discussed here and i apologize if it has... but has anybody A/B'ed the schroeder 1212 to a pair of aguilar gs-112's? specifically regarding the low end...which one is thicker, richer, and bigger and which one produces the fundamental of the low b better? thanks alot...there's alot of good info here but this thread is just too damn big!!!

Dang, we shoulda' done this when Ken was over at my house with his. We hooked up the aggies a couple brief times, but didn't really A/B them.

He had a 4 ohm 1212 with him that day... not the Lite version, tho. Anyway, going by dim memory, I'd say the one 4ohm 1212 compared VERY favorably against the 2 8ohm Aggies, except I'd say the Schroeder, with a bit more meat in the low mids, sounded "louder" and thicker, whereas the Aggies sounded a bit "deeper" and didn't hit you in the guts quite as hard. Personally, I think I liked the tone of the Aggies a bit better, but I think the Schroeder would cut thru a bit better live, which shouldn't surprise anyone in this thread.

Odd side note...

Josh was here with his dual channel Aggie 500 head, and it sounded great thru the Schroeder, but to my ears, did not sound that good thru the Aggie cabs... GO FIGURE!!!

 

[andrewd]

i didn't realize that the large box models were as wide as the mediums. i wouldn't mind getting a 21012 to put on top of my 1210 (or would it be better the other way around?)

 

[blizzard]

I just played my 1212 for the first time, great sound. I can't wait for band practise.

 

[Son of Bovril]

Finally after many mails back and forth between Jorg and Myself, I have managed to wire my 310212 up correctly (it was one of those three discussed a little earlier in this thread). Will be using it tomorrow in a decent sized gig and then I'll give some feedback on it...

 

[Esquillama]

I just got the word, my flight ready, selenium equipped, 1210 light is only about 10 to 14 days away!
Us poor teachers have to save a long time to get that kind of cash.

FINALLY!

 

[buzzbass]

Finally after many mails back and forth between Jorg and Myself, I have managed to wire my 310212 up correctly (it was one of those three discussed a little earlier in this thread). Will be using it tomorrow in a decent sized gig and then I'll give some feedback on it...

Mine was too, but all is well now

 

[cannon]

It's not a stupid question at all... it's hard to talk about tone... everyone uses similar words but they can mean very different things.

The Schroe 1210 does have what I would describe as aggressive mids..... to me, that's a noticable increase in volume in the frequencies between 250 and 500hz... the 'punch' area versus the 'big bottom area' below 150 hz, or the 'upper mid articulation' area above 800 hz or so.

The El Whappo has much more big bottom to my ear... while the Schroeder 1210 (and from what I understand, the 410) excel in that mi punch area. Of course, with a good amp and EQ, you can reshape most cabs to sound the way you want. However, I'm a big fan of finding a cab that inherently matches the 'sound in your head'.

Hope that helps.

K

PS I would assume the 21012 and the 310212 would have more of the big bottom and less pronounced mid punch vs. the 1210 and 410. I find that's the case comparing my 1212 to my 1210. I ordered a 21012 Light, and will post a review when it arrives. I assume I'm one of the first in line for those, so I should be receiving it within a month or so.

Are there similarities in tone between Schoe 1210 and Eden 210 XLT?

 

[KJung]

Are there similarities in tone between Schoe 1210 and Eden 210 XLT?

They are in the same tone family IMO... but the 1210 puts out literally twice the sound and has a much nicer crossover and tweeter. The similarities are primarily the lower mid punch... everything else about the 1210 is better IMO... plus the 1210 is about half the size, and even the regular version is lighter than the Eden. They are very different cabs, but again to me, the lower mid punch of the 210 reminds me of that XLT type punch.

 

[Scooperman]

Are there similarities in tone between Schoe 1210 and Eden 210 XLT?

Not particularly, beyond the similarities that any two good small cabs would have.

One of the "signature" aspects of the Eden cabs is a certain kind of mid-range scoop. Schroeders are known (among other things) for really present, punchy mids. So in some respects the two cabs are sort of opposites.

That being said, it’s easier to remove frequencies with EQ than it is to add it. Therefore, when I’ve wanted it, I’ve been able to scoop the mids out of my 1210 with EQ and it’s sounded very natural when I’ve done it.

The funny thing is, the longer I’ve used the 1210, the more I’ve come to appreciate what its present mids do for letting me cut through loud/busy mixes and I find myself cutting the mids less and less, to the point where many times I will use no EQ at all.

The 1210 is just about the loudest small cab I’ve used, even louder than the similar sized Edens (which are pretty loud for their size too) and the 1210 has loads of useful (low-mid) volume, which makes it sound even louder.

One thing that as gigging musician I appreciate about Jorg’s designs is that he has designed his stuff to sound as good as possible in real world conditions. The slight low-mid bump is an example. When listening to a solo’ed bass alone in my apartment, I, like many bassists, prefer a little bit of mid-range scoop for a “prettier” (some might say “hyped”) sound.

Therefore, at low volumes, alone at home, I would probably prefer the un-EQ’ed sound of an Eden 210 XLT over the un-EQ’ed sound 1210. However, in real world gigging conditions, the reverse is true.

In other words, one thing that I really like about Jorg’s design is that when compromises have to be made, Jorg chooses to emphasize the things that make the cab the most effective on a gig, as opposed to what might make the cab sound best at a music store.

This non-hyped approach may not help him sell more cabinets, but it definitely has the effect of making extremely loyal customers out of the people who do buy his stuff.

 

[FunkyLemz]

They are in the same tone family IMO... but the 1210 puts out literally twice the sound and has a much nicer crossover and tweeter. The similarities are primarily the lower mid punch... everything else about the 1210 is better IMO... plus the 1210 is about half the size, and even the regular version is lighter than the Eden. They are very different cabs, but again to me, the lower mid punch of the 210 reminds me of that XLT type punch.

Now that I think about it, your right Ken they do have a very similar mid punch. Huh...me gusta

 

[nemo]

Hey Scooperman, that was the most excellent description of the 1210 on the whole megathread!!
I can confirm that 100% with my 1210 cab.
On my Gibson GB-440 (Thunderfunk precedesor) I use EQ flat, and the Enhance knob goes to 6 on bedroom and back to 4 on the stage. This setup is loud and clear, on stadium gigs I went easily with master volume on 6. I am rig GAS-less now.

 

[cannon]

"One of the "signature" aspects of the Eden cabs is a certain kind of mid-range scoop."

I always felt Edens where mid-present not scooped or lacking of mids. I'm assuming by "scooped" you meant less/negative.

Maybe the term "mids" is too broad. I think of mids as the point where bass starts to sound like AM radio. I say from 650hz-1k. I've also seen it described as "nasal", and seen that term sometimes applied to Eden. To me, that's what my Eden 210XLT sounded like. (not to be derogatory in any way)

I typically like to boost 250-400hz to get useful (audible) bass bump that doesn't cost too much headroom. I would term this as "low-mids" though some may just say "mids". Is this where the Schroeders have a built in boost?

"...Jorg chooses to emphasize the things that make the cab the most effective on a gig, as opposed to what might make the cab sound best at a music store."

Definitely a +++1 there. That's the like when a drummer is crashing his cymbals and it sounds harsh until you get that in the mix with everything else and it makes sense. Sometimes a slight harsh sound, for lack of a better word, won't be harsh at all once its blended with everything else.

Howeva, all that being said, I'm personally looking for something that will replicate the sound of my Goliath II in a compact, lightweight pacakge. Sounds like the Schoeder won't deliver that sound.

Please chime in...

 

[slinkp]

Maybe the term "mids" is too broad.

You got that right. Well, at least it's better than totally useless words like "warm"

I think of mids as the point where bass starts to sound like AM radio. I say from 650hz-1k. I've also seen it described as "nasal", and seen that term sometimes applied to Eden. To me, that's what my Eden 210XLT sounded like. (not to be derogatory in any way)

I typically like to boost 250-400hz to get useful (audible) bass bump that doesn't cost too much headroom. I would term this as "low-mids" though some may just say "mids". Is this where the Schroeders have a built in boost?

I think so, although I haven't put mine through frequency analysis or anything. I think the 1212's strongest output is in the roughly 80 Hz - 400 Hz range. The one area where it's lacking for my taste is in the upper-mid "presence" zone, I'd say around 1K - 2K. A little nudge of EQ fixes that. I'd kinda like to compare it to a 1210 because I suspect the 1210 might have more in that range. But I love the lows on the 1212, so, maybe not ... I've also found that putting one of my EA cabs (CXL110 or CXL112) on top of the Schroeder is absolute heaven. Powerful, articulate, cutting, tight, deep, this rig has it all.

Howeva, all that being said, I'm personally looking for something that will replicate the sound of my Goliath II in a compact, lightweight pacakge. Sounds like the Schoeder won't deliver that sound.

I can't say, I've never been fond of any SWR 4x10 or 2x10 that I've tried. To me they seem very boomy and mushy in the lows. But I know plenty of people love them...
I much preferred my Eden 210XLT even with its shortcomings. If I were shopping for another Eden I'd definitely give the more recent XST models a try, by description it might be more up my alley.

Getting back to the Eden vs. Schroeder question: I used to have an Eden D210XLT and now have a Schroeder 1212. It's been a long time since I sold the Eden, so I never got to A-B those two; but I'm pretty sure of three differences: 1) The Schroeder has a less clanky tweeter (i.e. playing CDs through the Schroeder with no EQ sounds certainly not as good as a studio monitor but still pretty tolerable, while I found playing CDs through the Eden with no EQ sounded just awful). 2) The 210XLT has strong output at the port tuning, which I guess to be around low G - that note always sounded very loud! - and below that it drops off like a cliff; the low E just 3 frets down sounded completely anemic. That drove me nuts. The Schroeder, by comparison, has a much smoother rolloff; all the low notes on the E string sound about equally good. It's not that the Schroeder has much more output at the low E fundamental, it's just that there's a smoother transition between playing high notes with loud fundamental and low notes that are mostly overtones. There are some upper notes high on the D and G strings that boom a bit, but nothing very extreme.
And 3) the Schroeder is considerably smaller, lighter, and at least as loud

I don't play 5-string so I can't comment on how either cabinet fares in that situation.

hope that helps...