Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[nemo]

MikeBass: Search back in this thread, it was already discussed.

embelisher:

I did have to boost the highs a bit more, but I attribute that to the fact that the tweeter on the Schroeder is closer to the floor

Did you try to put your 1210 off the floor, like on chair? Differences in lows and highs?

 

[John D Harris]

I looked at the cabs on Brian's site and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tech Line do this a while back??
The cabs look almost exactly the same as the Tech Line stuff, without the silver colored speakers tho....
I'm not saying they don't sound great or are worth their cost, but from what I've seen (albeit, very little as of now), the design maybe new to Jorg, isn't new so to speak.
I hope they sound as good as you guys are saying, cause we need another good cab builder that doesn't charge an arm and a leg (yet!!).

Just my 2 cents:
The basic combination of conventional baffle and slanted baffle-semi-short-horn is similar to the Tech design.
Jorg uses newer drivers & crossovers and has tweaked the specific configurations and cab tuning to achieve what he personally was seeking for a group of speaker systems to use in real live gig situations.

 

[MikeBass]

Wait, I didn't want to imply that they were just some knock-off (my words) of the Tech stuff. Thats not what I ment at all.
Sorry to Jorg and the rest of you if thats the way it came off.
So...they sound good eh?!?!?
Jorg, I have a question, If you put a grill on the side near the "slanted" speaker so to speak, how much if at all would this affect the tone/output of the cab? Like say, the 210 version.
The reason I'm asking is imagine the "slanted' speaker firing up towards you (placing the cab on it's side).
The problem I have is on smaller stages my cab is sometimes right behind me blowing by my legs. I installed a spring loaded handle on the bottom (which helps) of my Epi 310, but still would like it a little more angled.
And hell, an even smaller cab to lug around that puts out like you guys are saying...........
Anyway, just a thought.


Edit: Wow, I gotta really search these longer threads sometimes!!!! My questions were answered!

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

The price of the Schroeder 410 is very reasonable. I wish I could hear the 410, an Acme B4, and an El Whappo side-by side to help make my decision. At this time, the El Whappo is my first choice. But luckily finances won't make buying one possible until next spring. I'll be watching this thread closely. I'm hoping someone will compare the Schro410 with the B4 and the El Whappo before I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new cabinet.

Best regards to everyone, Art

 

[embellisher]

MikeBass: Search back in this thread, it was already discussed.

embelisher: Did you try to put your 1210 off the floor, like on chair? Differences in lows and highs?

Haven't tried that yet. Truth be told, I was digging the lows so much I didn't want to compromise them by decoupling the cab from the floor.

 

[John D Harris]

The price of the Schroeder 410 is very reasonable. I wish I could hear the 410, an Acme B4, and an El Whappo side-by side to help make my decision. At this time, the El Whappo is my first choice. But luckily finances won't make buying one possible until next spring. I'll be watching this thread closely. I'm hoping someone will compare the Schro410 with the B4 and the El Whappo before I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new cabinet.

Best regards to everyone, Art

Biker4Him could help a bit on this one,
I don't know if he's heard the b4.
I don't know if he's a/b'd the 410 & El Whappo, but I know he used to own the whappo and heard my 410 at the DFW GTG (and now owns a 21012 and a 1210).
If he doesn't chime in here, you could PM him.

I talked to him about the Accugroove/Schroeder thing and he indicated that for his tastes, he prefers the Schroeders in a live gig situation. More details than that I'll defer to him (or others with the relevant experience you're asking about).

 

[Big String]

Chiming in. Chime...
When I was testing my 1210 I tried it on the side 10" pointing up. It worked very well. I was in a very small room rehearsing with some other band and it was tight. I felt that I was killing the players across from me and instead of equing I decided to tip up the 1210 as part of my testing. As I said it worked well and I left it that way for the duration of the jam. I wanted to play some geetar so the lead man switched with me. Charlie (the human juke box) plays bass with a pick and started doodling some Chris Squire Round About (did it perfect) I was across from him and it sounded superb. I had my Sad PJ/4 that day.

I've got a 21012 on the way since I decided that the 1210 and 212 were kinda of repetitious of what I had so I wanted something in between my mini rig and 610. Thanks to Jorg. He is "most excellent" to work with.

 

[Biker4Him]

Biker4Him could help a bit on this one,
I don't know if he's heard the b4.
I don't know if he's a/b'd the 410 & El Whappo, but I know he used to own the whappo and heard my 410 at the DFW GTG (and now owns a 21012 and a 1210).
If he doesn't chime in here, you could PM him.

I talked to him about the Accugroove/Schroeder thing and he indicated that for his tastes, he prefers the Schroeders in a live gig situation. More details than that I'll defer to him (or others with the relevant experience you're asking about).

Let me preface all this by saying I'm still fairly new at playing bass. I've only been playing for 3 1/2 years. (I'm actually a fiddle player.. or.. was). I got lucky and joined a great band. But became very complacent. It wasn't really until about 6 months ago.. that I decided to really expand my abilities, and become a more well rounded bass player. Quit the band, and now am really enjoying the art of bass playing as my creativity expands.

With that said, and the fact tham I'm in OKlahoma..... It's impossible for me to try stuff without buying it, and I'm not made of money... So I can't compare the Schroeders to a lot of other cabs. I've owned the El Whappo and I was able to compare it side to side with the 1210, with the 21012, and against both Schroeders at the same time. I was using my orange Vortex/Read "Purity"/Stewart 2.1 setup. I've also heard lo-freq's 410, and he was using his SR5 and a Demeter preamp (I believe).

The comparison between the E.W., and anything else is really not a fair comparison. The E.W. is a 4 way cabinet. 4 seperate little cabs all inside one big box. It's pristine in it's clarity, and has low end forever!!!! In my limited experience.. I've never heard a cabinet like it... it's absolutely amazing. The sound is FULL... and clear. The 21012 by itself though is just as loud as the E.W. if you are only talking volume. The 1210 actually comes pretty close to matching it for pure volume. And both the 1210 and 21012 combined will blow the E.W. away in pure volume. I would say without having compared them side by side, that the Schroeder 410 would probably "out volume" the E.W. as well.

After talking about volume, another difference is in tone/perceived tone. The E.W. pretty much puts out exactly what it gets fed. The Schroeder is not as pristine, and clean... (nothing else is that I know about). The coloration of the Schroders has been talked about to death in this thread. So you already know about it. The 410 seems to really drive the mids hard if I remember right. The 1210 is probably centered more towards the low mids... and so is the 21012. (I guess that's how you would describe it).

Another big difference between the two is "feel". The E.W. sounds and feels HUGE. It's bottom end really gets your colon moving. It's boomy, round, (yet articulate) and oh so deep. With crystal clear highs... etc. But the bottom end is huge. The Schroeders I have, and what I remember of the 410..... you get low end... but instead of causing colon blow... it hits you in chest and in the gut... It'll knock the wind clear out of you. If you thump down on a low D on the B string..... it'll flat double you over in pain. That's a good feeling. Both the E.W., and the Schroders sound great on the top end. If you're being Marcus Miller, and popping every note... you'll not tell much difference between the two. You're going to control that with your preamp, and the knobs on the back of the cab's anyway.

I think everyone here has said it... but I'll try to repeat it again. The BIGGEST difference the Schroeders show is in real life LIVE giggin. Plain, pure & simple... that's what it was made for... that's where it shines...It sounds great in the bedroom, or rehearsal room, or wherever... but daymn if they don't just SHINE on a gig. Forget all the vocabulary we use to describe the sounds/tone/feel/ and all the fancy diagrams/charts/graphs that tell us which cabinet is better.... I'm not smart enough to understand all that cockamaimy bull.... It hurts my head to think about, and it doesn't really tell me anything useful. All I know is, the true test of these or any type of gear, is the way we use them in real life. I don't play to sound good in my bedroom, or rehearsal room. I play to sound good in front of the people I'm doing my dead level best to make their azz's shake. This cab helps me do that. I can hear myself better, which gives me more confidence.. which allows me to experiment, which allows me to play better. That's it. All this long rant was about.. was to say... it sounds better to me, on stage. Even though the volume was there.. sometimes I would just get lost in the mix with the E.W. Not with the Schroeders... they cut the mix perfectly!!

Now... if I was a solo bass artist. LIke Jake Kot, or Stewar McKinsey or someone like that.. I would certainly want the round/sweet huge low end provided by the E.W. But for me, playing in a band with guitars, loud drums, and noisy crowds... I'll keep my Schroeders... they cut and punch, the E.W. fills.

Oh.. the 1210 is also about 1/3 the size of the E.W.... and in my current situation.. it's all I need for live stuff. The 21012 was just a silly impulse buy... and I'll have it when I need it.

man that was long...

 

[Steve S]

I have two Aguilar GS 112 cabinets. How does the Schroeder 1012 compare to them in sound and volume?

 

[Big String]

I have two Aguilar GS 112 cabinets. How does the Schroeder 1012 compare to them in sound and volume?

Steve do a search on this thread. Upper right hand corner type in gs112 or something like that. This is a GIANT thread. You could also email Mr. Schroeder, he's more than happy to answer. His email is also on this site. I'm not sure if he wants me to post it so maybe he get a hold of you. I know he has other stuff to do too.

 

[Big String]

Biker4Him
Nice post. I'm like you... cut the mix.... I'm all about tone too, but when the nitty gritty comes down you've got to hear yourself. And you get better too. Recently I've found I can hear myself better with less effort using Flatwound string and I love the vibe. I can actually hear my bass over the evil kick drum that usually extinguishes any of my tone unless I get obnoxious....

 

[tombowlus]

I can actually hear my bass over the evil kick drum that usually extinguishes any of my tone unless I get obnoxious....

For me, it's all about... well... me! So, I go ahead and get as obnoxious as I need to.

Seriously, though, I do at least try to be somewhat considerate of other players' ability to hear not only me but themselves as well, and I do like to hear them. If anything, I normally want to hear more kick drum. One of my gear-quest holy grails is the ability to hear the entire frequency range of my bass (as I want to hear it), and cut through the mix without drowning everyone else out and sound killer (and properly mixed) out where the audience is located. With my wide and ever growing arsenal of cabs and amps, I am usually able to meet these goals, though it certainly does take some knowing the room, knowing your bandmates, and knowing which rig to bring.

Tom.

 

[Biker4Him]

For me, it's all about... well... me! So, I go ahead and get as obnoxious as I need to.

Seriously, though, I do at least try to be somewhat considerate of other players' ability to hear not only me but themselves as well, and I do like to hear them. If anything, I normally want to hear more kick drum. One of my gear-quest holy grails is the ability to hear the entire frequency range of my bass (as I want to hear it), and cut through the mix without drowning everyone else out and sound killer (and properly mixed) out where the audience is located. With my wide and ever growing arsenal of cabs and amps, I am usually able to meet these goals, though it certainly does take some knowing the room, knowing your bandmates, and knowing which rig to bring.

Tom.

Tom,
Forgive me for being too lazy to look it up.. but have you added any Schroeders to your plethera of cab inventory? I'd like to hear what you have to say about the E.W. vs. the Schroders. Your experience and knowledge blows mine away..!!!!

 

[Big String]

Tom I had my rain coat on ... nah nah

I too like the kick, but our drummer is normally our soundman too. He does a great job but he tends to boost the kick channel more than the bass. If anything in most circumstances it should be pretty equal. People in the audience have told me lots of times, "man the kick is killing us, and I can't even hear your marvelous rig/gear", and this is coming from other musicains who know something about gear. Drummer Boy can be a bit of a Pismire (sp??) when it comes to what he's doing. When he ain't lookin' I give the bass a shot up. It's great when he comes back to the board because I know he notices it and he knows I'm watching.

Seriously though the Schroeders do in fact cut like a Samuri Sword. I'm still a huge fan of my Bergies but I do want that can of extra strength WhoopA$$ if I know I'm going into a room that is just plain mean and lean on a good mix and my favorite cab/tone wont' matter anyway. I'm looking forward to the 21012 because I have the 'room from HELL on 10-9 to try it out at. Of course my goal is for the whole band to sound most excellent.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom,
Forgive me for being too lazy to look it up.. but have you added any Schroeders to your plethera of cab inventory? I'd like to hear what you have to say about the E.W. vs. the Schroders. Your experience and knowledge blows mine away..!!!!

Not yet! However, the 1210 and 21012 are both very intriguing. Then again, there is the 410 and the 1010...

 

[Biker4Him]

Big String,
Thanks. I appreciate your compliment. You are right... the better I hear myself, the better player I become. Although... I do like to hear that kick drum... No problems now with the Schroeders. The E.W. would either get way to too loud... or get lost all together. It's probably more a problem with the old band, than the E.W. though. Those guys will be deaf in 3 years. They don't understand that in a small room you don't turn up as loud as possible. (Especially just to rehearse!!!)

So I don't blame the E.W. but it is a boomier, rounder low end, that got squashed by the Kick, and droning of the idiot guitarist whos favorite saying was "but mine goes to 11")

 

[tombowlus]

Tom I had my rain coat on ... nah nah

I too like the kick, but our drummer is normally our soundman too. He does a great job but he tends to boost the kick channel more than the bass. If anything in most circumstances it should be pretty equal. People in the audience have told me lots of times, "man the kick is killing us, and I can't even hear your marvelous rig/gear", and this is coming from other musicains who know something about gear. Drummer Boy can be a bit of a Pismire (sp??) when it comes to what he's doing. When he ain't lookin' I give the bass a shot up. It's great when he comes back to the board because I know he notices it and he knows I'm watching.

Seriously though the Schroeders do in fact cut like a Samuri Sword. I'm still a huge fan of my Bergies but I do want that can of extra strength WhoopA$$ if I know I'm going into a room that is just plain mean and lean on a good mix and my favorite cab/tone wont' matter anyway. I'm looking forward to the 21012 because I have the 'room from HELL on 10-9 to try it out at. Of course my goal is for the whole band to sound most excellent.

Heh, those drummers. When will they learn to leave the high brow work to the real musicians...

 

[Steve S]

Steve do a search on this thread. Upper right hand corner type in gs112 or something like that. This is a GIANT thread. You could also email Mr. Schroeder, he's more than happy to answer. His email is also on this site. I'm not sure if he wants me to post it so maybe he get a hold of you. I know he has other stuff to do too.

Big String....thanks. I read the reports and they're very informative.

 

[John D Harris]

...

In short, the answer was the gs112s were more focused - the Schroeders more "omnipresent."

[Just to give another take on this.]
IMO, a focused sound for bass guitar reproduction means a tight, non-boomy, non-mushy, articulate & balanced sound.

I haven't heard a pair of GS112, but I've heard one by itself.
With the Schroeder 1210, the low end is a lot tighter, the midrange is more present & balanced (less scooped), and the treble is more clear & smooth than with the GS112.

As usual, YMMV.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Thanks Biker4Him for the great El Whappo/Schroeder comparison. I want a cab that can cut through, so the 410 Schroeder will probably be a better choice for my situation.

Thanks, Art