Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[seansbrew]

This decision was hard for me as well. In a sense if you go the 1210+21012 you are getting the big rig in two parts( I know it's not the same but its close). By doing this you will have more flexibility with your rig. 1210 for small gigs, 21012 for medium to large gigs and both cabs for the big shows. Right now I am using one 21012 for my band and it cuts through without being driven hard at all ( five piece band). My 21012 replaced two Ampeg BXT 4x10 cabs and is doing the job just fine. My suggestion is to go with both cabs, for maximum flexibility. One more thing, with two cabs you get two horns istead of one with the 310212.

 

[popinfresh]

It's also taller and not so pansy looking than a single 310212 Ha.. j/k.

I think it may be the way to go.. How much are the flight ready versions, and are they worth it? The 1210 will take me a little longer to afford after I get the 21012, but I'm sure that cab will serve me well for anything I throw at it now..

So alls hoping this 21012 will give me all the growl, cutting punch/attack and lows I need! My other options are the Bergie NV425, the only drawback with that is the size, and Eden XLT or XST410 or an Acme Low B4...

 

[Larry Kaye]

I've already played some severely good sized rooms with just 600 watts and a 1210. I don't see how having any more than an additional 1210 or 1212 + an equal amount of additional wattage in any situation would not be loud enough on stage volume to cover most indoor situations without PA help or with just minimal PA help. The 21012 with a 1210 is intriquing, but it begins to lose it's pricing and weight advantages for only one extra speaker. We're talking about 94 pounds and around $1300 for the two "small" Schroeder cabs combined and 122 pounds and around $1600 for one small (1210 or 1212) and one medium (21012).

Once you guys start getting into these kinds of prices and shlepping, there are perhaps other single cab choices that come into play, (Epifani UL410 and 212/others I'm sure that are shleppable and affordable, that sound pretty damn good too) whereas if you look at Schroeders as a one cabinet solution to your speaker lineup, there ain't much out there in the same pricing or size/weight that gives you this much combined volume and tone. I still don't believe how good these cabinets sound to my ears.

LKaye

 

[rockstarbassist]

I agree.

If/when I get another cab, it will be a 21012 but will be prefitted for flight/road ready casing, and will be my main cab to tour or do gigs with. My 1210 will be for practice and small or acoustic gigs.

I agree, though. With a 2x 410 + 2x 21012 setup, you would own most Ampeg 8x10 backlines. I can't begin to imagine a 2x 310212 cab rig. Good lord. We're talking what, nearly 5000W on stage? Bring them JCM's to my feet and beg for mercy...

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

"I still don't believe how good these cabinets sound to my ears."

me either!

 

[John D Harris]

...

I think it may be the way to go.. How much are the flight ready versions, and are they worth it? The 1210 will take me a little longer to afford after I get the 21012, but I'm sure that cab will serve me well for anything I throw at it now..

...

If your band is louder than what a Schroeder 21012 or 410 can handle, YOUR BAND IS TOO FREAKIN' LOUD!!!

I mean 'ear bleed in short order' loud.

 

[nostyle]

I strongly agree with Larry Kaye's post above. I play around locally in a wide variety of places and my Eden 550 with a single 1210 has NEVER let me down. Plenty of headroom. I play old style Blues with my Kaye upright, guitar, harp, & drums. Constantly getting comments on my clear tone. I've never been happier with a rig. I cannot speak from experience, but I can't imagine needing more than 2 - 1210's unless you're a big time touring musician playing really large venues and then your'e going to be going through the PA and have sound guys and your tone really isn't in your control anymore anyway. You guys out there with all that expendable cash need to realize your back isn't expendable!

 

[popinfresh]

I've already played some severely good sized rooms with just 600 watts and a 1210. I don't see how having any more than an additional 1210 or 1212 + an equal amount of additional wattage in any situation would not be loud enough on stage volume to cover most indoor situations without PA help or with just minimal PA help. The 21012 with a 1210 is intriquing, but it begins to lose it's pricing and weight advantages for only one extra speaker. We're talking about 94 pounds and around $1300 for the two "small" Schroeder cabs combined and 122 pounds and around $1600 for one small (1210 or 1212) and one medium (21012).

Once you guys start getting into these kinds of prices and shlepping, there are perhaps other single cab choices that come into play, (Epifani UL410 and 212/others I'm sure that are shleppable and affordable, that sound pretty damn good too) whereas if you look at Schroeders as a one cabinet solution to your speaker lineup, there ain't much out there in the same pricing or size/weight that gives you this much combined volume and tone. I still don't believe how good these cabinets sound to my ears.

LKaye

Hmmm, that's the thing. If I get two medium boxes (1210 or 1212, they're mediums now on his site) I may have to wait a while until I can afford the second box. I'm sure one should do me in the meantime... But it'd be nice to have the extra speaker, just in case, ya know? I'll see what everything will cost me and what can be done...

 

[popinfresh]

I strongly agree with Larry Kaye's post above. I play around locally in a wide variety of places and my Eden 550 with a single 1210 has NEVER let me down. Plenty of headroom. I play old style Blues with my Kaye upright, guitar, harp, & drums. Constantly getting comments on my clear tone. I've never been happier with a rig. I cannot speak from experience, but I can't imagine needing more than 2 - 1210's unless you're a big time touring musician playing really large venues and then your'e going to be going through the PA and have sound guys and your tone really isn't in your control anymore anyway. You guys out there with all that expendable cash need to realize your back isn't expendable!

Hmmm... Just one thing.. Most people using these seem to be playing blues/jazz etc. Whilst I do play a bit of that, expecially with school stuff.. I'm usually playing HEAVY funk stuff or psycedelic rock with bands... and we play LOUD. Usually too loud =/ But do you honestly think a single 1210 could handle music like that in big stages (Auditorium like settings) and large outdoor gigs? Most people who play where we do/are going to are using 8x10 (Eden and Ampeg most common) stacks, I feel alot of the time the bassist gets drowned out..

 

[rockstarbassist]

Hmmm... Just one thing.. Most people using these seem to be playing blues/jazz etc. Whilst I do play a bit of that, expecially with school stuff.. I'm usually playing HEAVY funk stuff or psycedelic rock with bands... and we play LOUD. Usually too loud =/ But do you honestly think a single 1210 could handle music like that in big stages (Auditorium like settings) and large outdoor gigs? Most people who play where we do/are going to are using 8x10 (Eden and Ampeg most common) stacks, I feel alot of the time the bassist gets drowned out..

What's your PA support like? If very small, a bigger cab would naturally be in order. The 1210/1212 is designed to tackle mainly 4x10-sized gigs from what I've read, with the 21012 and 410 competing with most 8x10's, and the 310212 just owning anything on the market. But if the bassists are getting drowned out with an 8x10 setup, someone needs to turn down or EQ/set the PA levels right. That's nuts!

 

[popinfresh]

Yeah, at two of the venues the levels are just insanely high. It all just sounds like a big amount of noise unless it's a really good band up there who can make it sound good.
I think i'l go with a 21012, just because of the fact that getting two medium boxes is out of my range at the moment. Band mates and friends always help me with gear (Half the time I don't even cary anything, it's all taken before I pick up my bass!) so weight isn't an issue. And if I DO want more portability, i'l save for a 1210 to use for band practices and productions etc.
The 21012 will be stretching the limit allready, as i'm out of a job for the moment, so i'll have to see what else I can sell (So far, not much).. And the bands getting the name out faster than i'd imagined, I'd hate to get a gig or two where I just couldn't keep up. Not saying I wouldn't and I doubt the cabs, just saying I wouldn't want to..

Also the added depth of the bigger cab is a plus for me.

Cheers guys!

Edit: Apart from the ones where the PA is REALLY loud.. we usually have none, or just a couple EV 2x15 cabs on each side of the stage.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Yeah, then I'd think the bigger 21012 box will do ya nicely, especially if you push it pretty hard.

Let us know what happens!

 

[popinfresh]

One more thing.. Am I going to lose much aggresivness(sp?) and growl if I go a 21012 over a 410? What about cutting punch and high end? I've heard the 21012 has the same punch, just more lows.. But what about been agressive and growly in the mid/low mid region?

I'd only be playing a 4 string now, and if I went to an ERB it'd only be a six. I prefer the thump of bigger speakers though, that's why I'm leaning towards the 21012.

 

[popinfresh]

Oops, update guys!

Jorg replied my e-mail much quicker than I thought! He just got back from recording at midnight and he still came on to answer my questions! Legend!

He assures me, after following my post and other queries in my emails, that the 410 would be the cabinet for me. Then later adding a 212 when I get the cash/feel like been insane

Looks like i'll be paying for a nice new 410 in a few weeks to come.. Just got to wait for some last payments on my Mesa 1516 and sell my SWR cabinets (i'll put em up for sale tomorow I think). Then i'll be set!

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Larry Kaye]

Maybe it's just my lack of understanding, awareness, or whatever of hearing a cabinet that goes down to 35 hz, but would it be "reasonable" to assume that if I have more than "enough" low end and am satisfied with how the B string sounds with my 1210, that if I were to buy bigger Schroeder cabinet as a one cab solution for larger venues, that the 410 is going to, soundwise, be more like the 1210 than the 21012 is? Doesn't the 410 have the same sensitivity and low frequency response as the 1210?

I personally don't want "deeper" tone that in many rooms with bad acoustics don't do anything but make it more difficult to control low end rumbling or cause illness on stage with filling rattling bass that moves cue balls 100 feet away. I've personally found that having a 40hz low frequency response for the most part is pulentee enough "fundamental" for me?

Any comments on this?

Lkaye

 

[troll]

I got the 3101212 because I didn't want to compromise. I was replacing a full stack, but wanted more low end and punchier sound. Sure the BXT's were bright and sounded good up close, but they didn't fill a room right, and couldn't be heard on stage from more than 4 feet away. And they were too damned heavy.

I also enjoy a lot of headroom, and in situations where I needed the extra volume, I didn't like how the stack crunched up. I knew I was needing more. I like the philosophy that if you're pushing your gear hard, it's not enough.

So I figured the small boxes were out. I'd still like to have one for the occasional jam with friends or small quiet show, but the 3101212 is everything I need.

I don't have to run it hard at all to be in the mix, pa be damned... If I do need the extra volume, theres loads to spare and I'm still barely making it breate hard, and it's only powered by a plx1602.

Being able to turn down the lows to make the cab sound flatter, get the low mids bumpin and make it punch, while getting the zingy high end to project without beating it up is the most important thing for me, and this cab does that with flying colors. I wouldn't ever consider it 'too much cab'. It simply blows away my entire old stack at half the weight. If you play in a rock/metal setting, you owe it to yourself and your equipment to just do it right

 

[rockstarbassist]

I got the 3101212 because I didn't want to compromise. I was replacing a full stack, but wanted more low end and punchier sound. Sure the BXT's were bright and sounded good up close, but they didn't fill a room right, and couldn't be heard on stage from more than 4 feet away. And they were too damned heavy.

I also enjoy a lot of headroom, and in situations where I needed the extra volume, I didn't like how the stack crunched up. I knew I was needing more. I like the philosophy that if you're pushing your gear hard, it's not enough.

So I figured the small boxes were out. I'd still like to have one for the occasional jam with friends or small quiet show, but the 3101212 is everything I need.

I don't have to run it hard at all to be in the mix, pa be damned... If I do need the extra volume, theres loads to spare and I'm still barely making it breate hard, and it's only powered by a plx1602.

Being able to turn down the lows to make the cab sound flatter, get the low mids bumpin and make it punch, while getting the zingy high end to project without beating it up is the most important thing for me, and this cab does that with flying colors. I wouldn't ever consider it 'too much cab'. It simply blows away my entire old stack at half the weight. If you play in a rock/metal setting, you owe it to yourself and your equipment to just do it right

That's good to hear!
I doubt I'll ever be in a band where I'd need a cab like that again, but I'm sure it would've saved me a damn lot of carrying time and effort over those Boogie RR cabs! Not that I didn't like them, but damn... It's like they started out with a 50lb-weight hidden inside and said "Ok, now we're ready to go!"
What pre do you have in front of that PLX, or are you using an amp's signal to that?

 

[John D Harris]

Maybe it's just my lack of understanding, awareness, or whatever of hearing a cabinet that goes down to 35 hz, but would it be "reasonable" to assume that if I have more than "enough" low end and am satisfied with how the B string sounds with my 1210, that if I were to buy bigger Schroeder cabinet as a one cab solution for larger venues, that the 410 is going to, soundwise, be more like the 1210 than the 21012 is? Doesn't the 410 have the same sensitivity and low frequency response as the 1210?

Lkaye

[Based on my limited exposure -- someone else feel free to chime in...]
The 1210 and 21012 share a bit thicker tone on the low end and mid bass. The 21012 sounds bigger and a bit punchier than the 1210.

The 410 does go as low as the 1210, but lacks some of that 12" thickness on the lower regions.
The 410 is a very, very punchy sounding cabinet, very fast and very solid. I believe it will cut-through better than the cabs w/12" drivers in boom-ish-y rooms.

I personally don't want "deeper" tone that in many rooms with bad acoustics don't do anything but make it more difficult to control low end rumbling or cause illness on stage with filling rattling bass that moves cue balls 100 feet away. I've personally found that having a 40hz low frequency response for the most part is pulentee enough "fundamental" for me?

Any comments on this?

Lkaye

I agree.

 

[Larry Kaye]

I have never been reggae dub like in my low end heaviness, although my current settings are probably as heavy handed as I've been in the last 15 years with the Schroeder and Focus 1 head due to the fact the cabinet is not farting out even with a heavy dose of boosted lows on both the head and my Lull M5V. If the room can take it, I'll push it through. If we're rumbly, I'll run the lows flat or slightly boosted and turn up the volume to make up for it. The 1210 is about as close to how I want to sound as I've ever used. It's a little slower reacting than maybe the 1010 would have been or the 410 is as mentioned and I would like a little more punchiness but like and need are a whole different story. With the exception of a very large pool hall I played in with no acoustically dampening except people and felt top tables, the 1210 has been perfect to just about perfect in every instance I've used it. I really don't want to go back to a 2 cab solution so my guess is that should the need arise (and the money to pay for it which is an issue right around now...see my ad on bassgear for a Lull PJ5!!!!), I think I'd go with a 410 as the larger cab.

I'd also, if I were Jorg, rename the sizes....the `112 I'd call a mini cube or something, the 1210 and 1212 I would call small....they are!!! the 21012 and 410 I would call Medium.....they are!!!, and the 310212 I would describe as larger or Large, which it is more by weight than stature.

Have fun over and out.

 

[troll]

What pre do you have in front of that PLX, or are you using an amp's signal to that?

I know I posted it somewhere in the rack thread way back. But basically a maxcom (limiting only slightly so the B isn't muddy/overbearing) into an svp-bsp (I'd like something else down the road, but it 'works' for now) back into the maxcom ( very light compression, with a bit of maximizer thrown in to make up for my only 3 band eq in the pre) and then to the power amp. It's all actually pretty much flat, my bass eq flat with mids cut a bit(maple cirrus 5 95% of the time), and that's about it. It's a balancing act of using the maximizer and pre eq to get just the right sound for the room, but it sounds good and is tight, projects and cuts well.

The cab has enough lows that I find myself cutting them in the pre to even it out and get the highs to blend in. (and nowhere was that more apparent than at the last gig in a medium room with a hollow wood stage)