I played at an outdoor gig this weekend using the Schroeder 410 and placing a 1212 below it. I've always had problems playing outside if I don't have adequate PA support and I've used Bergantino HT/EX 112's, Aguilar GS 112's and two Bag End S15D's. The Schroeders did not need any PA support and the sound was big, loud and full. I don't think I needed the 1212 either.
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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)
- Thread starter SMASH
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Larry Kaye said:
Thanks for the info Larry.
I guess that I'm trying to say the tone just pops out with a tad more volume.
I am currently running a WW Amber light head.
I believe it's 650 watts.
The room we played in was quite boomy and I had the 1012 positioned about 2 feet from some glass doors. It was sitting in it's proper position on the rubber feet.
( Did think about putting the cabinet on it's side )
I did dail in some EQ to compensate, but was only satified after giving her more juice.
Thanks
Is your bass active or passive? I know that I may be in the minority, but the tone that makes me feel the most comfortable that still transfers to the audience..well, I've never found using an integrated preamp/amp yet. I've always had a 31 or 12/13 band graphic to smoothe out and slightly color certain frequencies that seem to just either sound good or cut ones that don't.
The heads like your's, my AI Focus, EA some others etc who claim to make our basses sound "like your bass...uncolored...what goes in is what comes out" well frankly, doesn't do enough for me. When you get into a boomy room, I feel it's close to impossible to turn up loud enough especially for "dinner or cocktail" type of sets to get any cabinet, including our beloved Schroders to sound and react anywhere near what they do at "normal" to really "cranked" volume.
I guess what I'm saying is the combination of a truly "hi fi" sounding, flat response head Like a WW, especially with this cabinet, I feel will lend itself to being not as good, soft or loud as in better sounding rooms. That's exactly what happened to me the 1 time in 11 or 12 I've used the Schroeder so far where it didn't totally kick ass. That was a large and extremely boomy room + they put me in the front of the stage rather than my "normal" position next to our drummer.
Didn't matter what volume I played at, it didn't "feel" good...too loud and boomy closed to the cab and to boomy and not well defined at all 15 feet in front, yet through the PA, it' sounded fine....I just was not comfortable playing any of our material and couldn't wait for the gig to be over. I started the gig with the cabinet on the rubber feet as your's was and switched it upright after the first set. I did not help at all 15 feet in front, but it did help cut the stage boominess and volume.
Good luck on a solution in both of our venues. We have 3 more gigs booked there through August!!!!
LKaye
The heads like your's, my AI Focus, EA some others etc who claim to make our basses sound "like your bass...uncolored...what goes in is what comes out" well frankly, doesn't do enough for me. When you get into a boomy room, I feel it's close to impossible to turn up loud enough especially for "dinner or cocktail" type of sets to get any cabinet, including our beloved Schroders to sound and react anywhere near what they do at "normal" to really "cranked" volume.
I guess what I'm saying is the combination of a truly "hi fi" sounding, flat response head Like a WW, especially with this cabinet, I feel will lend itself to being not as good, soft or loud as in better sounding rooms. That's exactly what happened to me the 1 time in 11 or 12 I've used the Schroeder so far where it didn't totally kick ass. That was a large and extremely boomy room + they put me in the front of the stage rather than my "normal" position next to our drummer.
Didn't matter what volume I played at, it didn't "feel" good...too loud and boomy closed to the cab and to boomy and not well defined at all 15 feet in front, yet through the PA, it' sounded fine....I just was not comfortable playing any of our material and couldn't wait for the gig to be over. I started the gig with the cabinet on the rubber feet as your's was and switched it upright after the first set. I did not help at all 15 feet in front, but it did help cut the stage boominess and volume.
Good luck on a solution in both of our venues. We have 3 more gigs booked there through August!!!!
LKaye
LKLarry Kaye said:
I used a passive Fender P Bass on this gig.
Shortly to recieve a PJ Sadowsky soon!
And yes, I have experienced this at other gigs.
We have a keyboard player with a heavy left hand and he does at times step into my sonic space.
Could this be the case???
I notice after turning up I can't hear his left hand so much?
Okay, these posts regarding the Schroeder cabs not sounding good unless they're opened up has got me worried. I've been considering going with the 310212 because I might be joining a metal band that is VERY loud and has two guitarists (one with a marshall half-stack, and the other with a Mesa Triple Rec FULL stack, i.e. 4x12+4x12, not to mention the very hard-hitting drummer). My concern is that this cab will work great for that band, but my primary gig (a modern hard rock band, far from the point of being considered metal, and we are much less loud) will suffer from a cab that never really gets to be opened up (only have to compete with a drummer and a marshall half-stack operated by a guitarist who has a sense of stage-volume).
So, do you think the 310212 would sound less than pleasing at the lower volumes offered by my primary band? Would the 410 or 21012 be able to keep up with the heavier band?
So, do you think the 310212 would sound less than pleasing at the lower volumes offered by my primary band? Would the 410 or 21012 be able to keep up with the heavier band?
yeah, thats the room i practice in every week 
Actually, we have a new lead singer who sings too quiet for the PA in there so we are going to use one of the bigger rooms with a better PA.
Actually, we have a new lead singer who sings too quiet for the PA in there so we are going to use one of the bigger rooms with a better PA.
Well, here is my take on the 'doesn't sound good at low volume' thing.
I have had my 1210/iAMP 800 setup for several months now.
We have a recurring gig playing at a mission for the homeless, addicts, and alcoholics.
It is vocals, amplified acoustic guitar, djembe, and fretless bass. Very low volume.
My rig sounds very good in this setting. Yes, it does sound even better opened up, but it does the quiet thing very well, at least as far as my ears can tell.
I have had my 1210/iAMP 800 setup for several months now.
We have a recurring gig playing at a mission for the homeless, addicts, and alcoholics.
It is vocals, amplified acoustic guitar, djembe, and fretless bass. Very low volume.
My rig sounds very good in this setting. Yes, it does sound even better opened up, but it does the quiet thing very well, at least as far as my ears can tell.
A word about opening up. We played two outdoor festivals this weekend.
The first had the best PA I have ever played through. 4 2x18 Peavey subs, 4 3 way Peavey columns with 2x15, mid horn, and tweeter, powered by over 25KW of QSC, Crown and Crest power amps. Great sound, and a great soundman. My rig was just a stage monitor, and it did the job very well.
The second had a decent, but small PA. 2 1x18 Peavey subs, 2 EV 2 way cabs, and two of those JBL plastic 15+tweeter cabs, powered by about 2KW. Again a decent soundman, but we ran vocals and kickdrum only through the PA.
In hindsight, we should have miked the guitar.
My guitarist had to turn his Line 6 150 watt 2x12 up almost all the way. My rig did the job admirably well, loud, clean, and I still had a little power to give.
This little box rocks! I can't imagine how loud a 410, or a 1210+1212 would be.
The first had the best PA I have ever played through. 4 2x18 Peavey subs, 4 3 way Peavey columns with 2x15, mid horn, and tweeter, powered by over 25KW of QSC, Crown and Crest power amps. Great sound, and a great soundman. My rig was just a stage monitor, and it did the job very well.
The second had a decent, but small PA. 2 1x18 Peavey subs, 2 EV 2 way cabs, and two of those JBL plastic 15+tweeter cabs, powered by about 2KW. Again a decent soundman, but we ran vocals and kickdrum only through the PA.
In hindsight, we should have miked the guitar.
My guitarist had to turn his Line 6 150 watt 2x12 up almost all the way. My rig did the job admirably well, loud, clean, and I still had a little power to give.This little box rocks! I can't imagine how loud a 410, or a 1210+1212 would be.
I'm going to find out what a 21012 and a 1210 sound like together as soon as I sell my second BXT cab, I can't wait. I am very inpressed with the 21012, it has alot of depth while at the same time remaining punchy. I have yet to see what this cab can really do, I havn't had to push it at all to get what I need. I think the 1210 will be a great small gig rig as well as a highly portable practice amp. It will also come in handy if I need to use it in conjunction with my 21012, you know, for that big show 
.
I am very inpressed with the 21012, it has alot of depth while at the same time remaining punchy. I have yet to see what this cab can really do, I havn't had to push it at all to get what I need. I think the 1210 will be a great small gig rig as well as a highly portable practice amp. It will also come in handy if I need to use it in conjunction with my 21012, you know, for that big show .
Does the flight ready version also cover the tweeter knob in the back?
Or would you still need to buy a cover to protect that
(from getting bumped, or rain, etc.)?
Or would you still need to buy a cover to protect that
(from getting bumped, or rain, etc.)?
I just finished playing a show at Churchills tonight and it was great!
No bass through the PA, but who the hell cares? I let my 3101212 do all the work in a medium/large room being pushed by an RMX2450 and it was fantastic.
I heard the rumble, but no mud, it was really clear and easy to hear, even with a Marshall JCM900 halfstack right next to me.
One of my favorite things about the cab is that it handles some rough signals well. I hear a lot of people say that you should use 15's with synth pedals and octave effects, but my cab handles my Deep Impact with no problems. even when I stomp on the Rat, Sparkle Drive, and RBI on heavy drive, it just keeps singing.
I know I said Id get samples from our recording, but Im not sure I will anymore. We went in and quickly set up and recorded without much effort to get the sound right and it was a mistake. We used and Earthworks (?) mic which even though it had great fequency response, couldnt handle the high SPLs and sounded distorted and mushy because of it. Unless we have a chance to clean it up, Ill have to let someone else post more samples.
No bass through the PA, but who the hell cares? I let my 3101212 do all the work in a medium/large room being pushed by an RMX2450 and it was fantastic.
I heard the rumble, but no mud, it was really clear and easy to hear, even with a Marshall JCM900 halfstack right next to me.
One of my favorite things about the cab is that it handles some rough signals well. I hear a lot of people say that you should use 15's with synth pedals and octave effects, but my cab handles my Deep Impact with no problems. even when I stomp on the Rat, Sparkle Drive, and RBI on heavy drive, it just keeps singing.
I know I said Id get samples from our recording, but Im not sure I will anymore. We went in and quickly set up and recorded without much effort to get the sound right and it was a mistake. We used and Earthworks (?) mic which even though it had great fequency response, couldnt handle the high SPLs and sounded distorted and mushy because of it. Unless we have a chance to clean it up, Ill have to let someone else post more samples.
It's ok for the piano player to play those notes just as it's ok for us to play higher notes that get into the sonic space of guitarists, vocalists, and other instruments. It's when we are so trebly that we actually have more high end than a guitar or when a guitarist or keyboardist have as much if not more bottom end on their instruments than we do that we have a sonic conflict. It's when a bassist or other instrument "pedals" notes in the range of other instruments and overemphasizes the part of the sound spectrum that's more appropriate for other instruments that causes issues.
I have one more....why is it that every time every band I've been in plays My Girl (not exactly a rocket science complexity part, right?....just feels nice), either a keyboard player, or guitar player, or now, our lead sax player feels the need to duplicate the bass part which when recorded was done without any duplicate sonic help? Stupid.
Lkaye
I have one more....why is it that every time every band I've been in plays My Girl (not exactly a rocket science complexity part, right?....just feels nice), either a keyboard player, or guitar player, or now, our lead sax player feels the need to duplicate the bass part which when recorded was done without any duplicate sonic help? Stupid.
Lkaye
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
Larry Kaye said:
That's the WORST. I usually spend time breaking keyboard players of the habit when they're new. It usually happens when they're used to playing alone, where they have to hold down the bass side of the song too. I'll spend practice stopping songs where it happens and saying "git outta my neighborhood".
I love the line for My Girl. I tend to insert it in to "I'll Take You There", when our singer starts with the lyrics to "Just my Imagination"...thus layering song quotations x3!
I'll just toss in my .02 worth here.
I've had the Shro 1210 & iAmp800 rig for about three months and I couldn't be happier with the sound at low vol!
My decision to purchase was helped by a few very knowledgeable loyal TB'ers. Thanks tombowlus and Mike Dimin.
I have a gig similar to "embellisher" every week at a small pub with wood floors and seating for about 45 including the bar.
My acoustic trio consists of a guitar player/singer (small Acoustic 2x5 amp), female vocalist (gorgeous) and myself also a vocalist. I play a Ken Smith 5 and use the EA flat with Contour II engaged and the sound is full and very well balanced with the guitar and three part harmonies.
The owners are also very pleased with the sound because their patrons don't have to shout at one another to be heard during our sets. We've even been asked to "TURN UP".
I have not been able to really "open it up" yet but this Summer holds a few large venues with a drummer and some outdoor gigs as well.
I'll post my impressions of these performances later
I've had the Shro 1210 & iAmp800 rig for about three months and I couldn't be happier with the sound at low vol!
My decision to purchase was helped by a few very knowledgeable loyal TB'ers. Thanks tombowlus and Mike Dimin.
I have a gig similar to "embellisher" every week at a small pub with wood floors and seating for about 45 including the bar.
My acoustic trio consists of a guitar player/singer (small Acoustic 2x5 amp), female vocalist (gorgeous) and myself also a vocalist. I play a Ken Smith 5 and use the EA flat with Contour II engaged and the sound is full and very well balanced with the guitar and three part harmonies.
The owners are also very pleased with the sound because their patrons don't have to shout at one another to be heard during our sets. We've even been asked to "TURN UP".
I have not been able to really "open it up" yet but this Summer holds a few large venues with a drummer and some outdoor gigs as well.
I'll post my impressions of these performances later
BurningSkies said:
I just stop playing.
I've actually done it live on a few jam occasions where a guy comes up and wants to "sit in" on a few tunes. And you know, almost all these guys don't notice a thing until they look up and see the bassist (me) with a big smile on his face and playing a cowbell or tambourine. I usually stop like that when there's some sort of low frequency feedback on stage even when I stop playing!! The cause is usually from the in-house soundman at one club we play who insists on turning up the bassdrum and subwoofer volumes to jungle rap stupid volumes, which are not called for in any of the music my bands play. I mean this music was recorded before anyone ever had a subwoofer in their cars or trucks. A gentler time when people only owned trucks and suv's for hauling a load of asphalt to fix potholes in their driveways.
Ah yes, a time of more luv and understanding.
L
Ah yes, a time of more luv and understanding.
L
Nick man said:
How is your 310212? I just got ahold of a dealer about picking one up and I'm wondering if it will be overkill or not with my Sunn 1200S up against 2 5150's with half stacks. Not that I would mind being more powerful than 2 halfstacks
What are the horizontal dimensions? I'd like to know so I can be sure it will fit in my back seat of my car or not (it's a bigger car)
I finally got to gig with the 3101212 this last weekend. It was a clusterfook of a gig. The other bands PA was tore up. Tons of low end feedback. We basically had to shut everything down and run almost all stage volume minus a bit of kick, guitar and vocals. You guessed it. I get to use stage volume!
I left it about where we normally practice at, which isn't exactly quiet. Be it the room, or the hollow raised stage, but it was boomy as hell, so I cut a bunch of lows, turned up a few notches and just went for it. Since I was barely (if at all) in the PA, and it was a bit hard to hear myself at first, I turned up a bit more over the next few songs. I use a bit more of a flat but sort of bright sound with just enough lows that you can hear it as well as hard attacks when I want across the room, so it was odd to have to cut so much lows to get it to project. But it was ok. I was still hardly pushing it. But I didn't get to pay much attention, I got there late, and was really stressed about getting set up, then the PA trouble, then I just wanted to play well and was really concentrating while trying to hear all the parts on stage with little to no monitoring. Maybe next time I can focus more on getting a good live tone and really putting it to work.
I let my buddy who was in the next band run through it. After some trouble with his basses having significantly different output and a dying pedal battery totally screwing up the signal, it seemed to be going ok. I got called up later to do a song with them on his Ibanez, and realized I was LOUD as hell. He was really railing on the amp. And well it took it just fine. Still sounded good. I had no idea he had gotten so loud along the way. I was busy working the crowd their entire set and entertaining my friends and family that showed up.
So I guess it works just fine and there are certainly no dissapoints. I think I made the right choice.
I left it about where we normally practice at, which isn't exactly quiet. Be it the room, or the hollow raised stage, but it was boomy as hell, so I cut a bunch of lows, turned up a few notches and just went for it. Since I was barely (if at all) in the PA, and it was a bit hard to hear myself at first, I turned up a bit more over the next few songs. I use a bit more of a flat but sort of bright sound with just enough lows that you can hear it as well as hard attacks when I want across the room, so it was odd to have to cut so much lows to get it to project. But it was ok. I was still hardly pushing it. But I didn't get to pay much attention, I got there late, and was really stressed about getting set up, then the PA trouble, then I just wanted to play well and was really concentrating while trying to hear all the parts on stage with little to no monitoring. Maybe next time I can focus more on getting a good live tone and really putting it to work.
I let my buddy who was in the next band run through it. After some trouble with his basses having significantly different output and a dying pedal battery totally screwing up the signal, it seemed to be going ok. I got called up later to do a song with them on his Ibanez, and realized I was LOUD as hell. He was really railing on the amp. And well it took it just fine. Still sounded good. I had no idea he had gotten so loud along the way. I was busy working the crowd their entire set and entertaining my friends and family that showed up.
So I guess it works just fine and there are certainly no dissapoints. I think I made the right choice.
I, like so many others, attempted to read the 90 pages of material. After awhile, it tended to get quite repetitive. Nonetheless, I am a convert. It sounds too good to be true, yet supposedly it is true.
I must ask, however, about what heads you guys are pairing with your cabs? From what I've read, these cabs are very highend, so I'm assuming you guys are also pairing them with highend heads, no? My question is this: Have you tried combining a Schro cab with a lowend head? If so, how'd it work?
I emailed and asked Jorg, but I would like to hear your opinions as well. What would be the minimum head required to make one of these guys sing properly? Will it affect performence to downgrade the head? If so, how much?
Let me know! Thanks guys!
I must ask, however, about what heads you guys are pairing with your cabs? From what I've read, these cabs are very highend, so I'm assuming you guys are also pairing them with highend heads, no? My question is this: Have you tried combining a Schro cab with a lowend head? If so, how'd it work?
I emailed and asked Jorg, but I would like to hear your opinions as well. What would be the minimum head required to make one of these guys sing properly? Will it affect performence to downgrade the head? If so, how much?
Let me know! Thanks guys!
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