Self Taught: Yea or Nay

[Topkat13]

Why not either or a little of both????

 

[BarfanyShart]

 

[sotua]

Missing option: "Meh". When evaluating a player, I do not care how they got here, I care about how they are playing right now.

(for fun: I have taken drum lessons but not bass lessons. You might want me as your bassist, but you definitely don't want me as your drummer, even though I'm self taught at bass)

 

[sears]

Self-taught can mean a lot of things in my view. I'm self-taught on bass and guitar but I had a lot of music instruction. The best drummers are the ones who started on trumpet. But nobody's ever offered up to me that they're self-taught so I can't answer the question. I honestly don't know if anyone I've played with is self-taught.

 

[BarfanyShart]

I’ve met guys who were formally taught at places such as Berklee who were absolute crap. A formal education can’t dress up a lack of talent.

I think people would be absolutely shocked to see how many of these musicians in Nashville have zero training, and how many of their musical heroes never spent a day in the classroom.

Hard work and passion can go much further than your parents money.

But, with that being said, I have nothing against music education. I think it is more beneficial than not. But these comments about how guys who are self-taught creating a reaction of supposed crap within do nothing but point to ignorance about the reality of the situation.

My only quibble with what you say is to point out that Nashville is not like anywhere else in the world in that it is the center of a big, global music business that is based on accommodating self-taught musicians who learned their craft in a folk tradition. Dublin is maybe a far second to having that same kind of scene and system, but it doesn't exist in many other places in the world. Now, maybe part of your point is that more areas of the music industry should be accessible to folk musicians from different traditions - and I agree with that - but Nashville is still a place like no other in that regard.

 

[Minimalist]

Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.

This is simply not true. I'm 100% self taught, can read and know music theory. I never did too well in any kind of school environment. Learning a skill all by myself didn't just teach me about playing bass or music, it also gave me the skills and confidence to learn many other skills or trades. Ultimately ultimately being self taught taught me how to teach myself if that makes any sense.

 

[LBS-bass]

This is simply not true. I'm 100% self taught, can read and know music theory. I never did too well in any kind of school environment. Learning a skill all by myself didn't just teach me about playing bass or music, it also gave me the skills and confidence to learn many other skills or trades. Ultimately ultimately being self taught taught me how to teach myself if that makes any sense.

So am I. I don't get your point, but then again, it's a big world and we're all different.

 

[Minimalist]

So am I. I don't get your point, but then again, it's a big world and we're all different.

I don't have an inherent musical gift and definitely didn't need traditional teaching.

 

[LBS-bass]

I don't have an inherent musical gift and definitely didn't need traditional teaching.

Maybe you have more gift than you give yourself credit for. Or maybe you misunderstand what I mean by "traditional teaching." Did you just pick up an instrument, listen to the notes, figure out how to make the sounds you wanted in the order you wanted, and then start playing with others? That's a gift. If you had to find instructional materials in order to learn how to do that, those are traditional tools. It doesn't mean you had to have a teacher. It only means you had to seek knowledge before you could make music.

So yes, you can be fully self-taught through traditional methods, I suppose. Only someone who has a real gift will be able to make real music without something like that in their background, though. And, as has been stated, even those people will have a communication advantage in working with others if they learn something about what it is they're doing with their fingers and ears and how to describe that to other musicians. That's all I meant.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

My only quibble with what you say is to point out that Nashville is not like anywhere else in the world in that it is the center of a big, global music business that is based on accommodating self-taught musicians who learned their craft in a folk tradition.

I can say fair enough to this, as it is true. Schermerhorn orchestral players, I’m sure, are trained, and that is a different world where you’ll likely find that most all have formal training.

So, yes, my point does center on rock, blues, country, bluegrass, etc. etc.

Orchestral players...that’s a different world, completely.

 

[BarfanyShart]

I don't have an inherent musical gift and definitely didn't need traditional teaching.

Surely there is someone in the world with whom you would benefit from having a lesson with. I mean, it's hard for me to understand why someone would think that every sort of formalized education is worthless to them, in all circumstances. But, you know, people are different.

 

[Minimalist]

Maybe you have more gift than you give yourself credit for. Or maybe you misunderstand what I mean by "traditional teaching." Did you just pick up an instrument, listen to the notes, figure out how to make the sounds you wanted in the order you wanted, and then start playing with others? That's a gift. If you had to find instructional materials in order to learn how to do that, those are traditional tools. It doesn't mean you had to have a teacher. It only means you had to seek knowledge before you could make music.

So yes, you can be fully self-taught through traditional methods, I suppose. Only someone who has a real gift will be able to make real music without something like that in their background, though. And, as has been stated, even those people will have a communication advantage in working with others if they learn something about what it is they're doing with their fingers and ears and how to describe that to other musicians. That's all I meant.

Thanks for clarifying. I indeed misunderstood your first statement. This I can agree with.

 

[ToneMonkey]

Everybody is ultimately self-taught. Nobody is born with ability. Even if you work with a teacher, you still have to put in the work to gain ability.

In my experience, strictly self-taught people eventually hit walls and don’t possess the knowledge and skills necessary to break out of ruts when they need to.

 

[Slevage]

There are amazing players who are self taught, and there are awful ones. There are amazing players who are classically trained and there are awful ones. This is NOT the way to judge a musician! But before hearing a player, if you hear the words "self taught," in that instinctual gut-check part of yourself, do your expectations go up or down.

Definitely explain your choice if you want, but lets avoid the lists of names if at all possible. I doubt there is a player alive who would say "all self taught players are good/bad" or "all trained players are good/bad." The examples either way sort of prove jack, and I'm wondering what your gut tells you.

I have never met an awful classically trained player. Maybe not a natural, but far from awful. It is possible to have an intelligent, musical conversation with them.

 

[drumvsbass]

'self taught' often means 'never learnt anything'.

 

[thewildest]

Someone can survive as an orphan and be successful; sometimes the hardship itself would have an accelerating factor in someone’s will to achieve their goals in their destiny.

Now, when nurtured by a family, the close influence of values and love would have an effect on someones path; when done well, there is also space for individual challenges to exercise one’s will.

Receiving instruction from a teacher is similar; there are generations of wisdom conveyed that could facilitate your journey and above all, a communicating reference about what works and what doesn’t.

If available and possible for you, I would alternate my progress between different teachers and periods of self-discovery

I hope it helps

 

[dan1952]

I voted for "I'll Pass" because nobody is really self-taught unless they live in a vacuum. Therefore, anyone who claims to be self taught must be some kind of egomaniac, and I don't want to hear what they have to say musically.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.

You're sweet. I feel so gifted now

 

[Knavery]

I've tried to self-teach myself theory and I still don't know anything about music. Learning songs was never a big deal. It's music theory plain and simple.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Don't care. You're either good or you aren't.