Gut reaction...I'd lean towards the school of thought that the person may be hard to communicate with...even the best musician will have it rough if they havent taught themselves the right things...self taught is a pretty broad term...I'm self taught but definitely took the long road around to learn of theory..u think if I wont have formally been trained both in theory and the technical side I'd be a better player today...but glad that I've got unique aspects and approaches to pieces of music that a trained musician might not have thunk of...but idk, I had the luxury of having musicians around and learnt by jamming with more experienced players...so would I be self taught?..or informally trained?..who knows...just think it might be the long way to the same place.kinda
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Self Taught: Yea or Nay
- Thread starter Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw
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Depends on context. I’ve played with a few highly trained musicians who had no idea how to improvise or make up their own parts in an original band / composing environment, because they had no experience playing something that wasn’t pre-written. Some classical players fall into that category. Amazingly talented readers, but some have never exercised their composing/improv muscles.
I’ve also played with self-taught players who are tough to communicate with because they don’t know the language of theory.
If/how it works depends on the individual and the context. But imo, *generally* playing with people who know more is better than playing with those who know less.
I’ve also played with self-taught players who are tough to communicate with because they don’t know the language of theory.
If/how it works depends on the individual and the context. But imo, *generally* playing with people who know more is better than playing with those who know less.
I have a little training in treble clef from grade school including some piano lessons and I played first chair trumpet in jr. and senior high school.
On bass, I’ve been 90% self taught. Had a few months of lessons in the 70’s and played bass in the high school jazz band even though I was in jr. high.
Lessons got me on my way. It seems that my own path was more instructive than anything I learned with a teacher though. Maybe if I had a great bass teacher I’d feel differently about it. My path has nothing to do with what’s right and not and I actually believe having a great teacher is so helpful and interesting . You have to really want it to work so hard. Working on lessons does nothing for my head as I prefer to concentrate on tunes to be played for money.
Maybe when I fully retire this year I’ll see things differently. My future is uncertain.
On bass, I’ve been 90% self taught. Had a few months of lessons in the 70’s and played bass in the high school jazz band even though I was in jr. high.
Lessons got me on my way. It seems that my own path was more instructive than anything I learned with a teacher though. Maybe if I had a great bass teacher I’d feel differently about it. My path has nothing to do with what’s right and not and I actually believe having a great teacher is so helpful and interesting . You have to really want it to work so hard. Working on lessons does nothing for my head as I prefer to concentrate on tunes to be played for money.
Maybe when I fully retire this year I’ll see things differently. My future is uncertain.
I don’t really fit into your poll.
I’m (mostly) self taught and have been playing bass in bands for about 17 years. I say mostly self taught, because I had lessons for 6 months about 8 years ago and it opened up so much for me even in that limited time.
I’m currently playing in three bands that are all very different. Two of them are “pro” bands meaning that everyone in them (except for me!) has had a musical education and is expected to learn and do a bunch stuff quickly including changes to songs. Think like a 3-5 hour practice and not going over a song twice. Sometimes we might do a section of a song again, but that’s it.
I’m also in a hardcore band which is very much not a pro situation. Everyone is a pretty talented player but only one guy has any real formal musical training so things move at a relatively glacial pace because no one has a great means of communicating other than playing what you want the other guy to play over and over and hope they get it.
At the end of the day, none of us are statistically likely to reinvent the wheel. Education = communication. Music is a language so it’s kinda like teaching yourself to speak German but neglecting to learn how to read and write it. And, much like many aspects of our lives, communication is probably the most important tool in anyone’s toolbox.
I’m (mostly) self taught and have been playing bass in bands for about 17 years. I say mostly self taught, because I had lessons for 6 months about 8 years ago and it opened up so much for me even in that limited time.
I’m currently playing in three bands that are all very different. Two of them are “pro” bands meaning that everyone in them (except for me!) has had a musical education and is expected to learn and do a bunch stuff quickly including changes to songs. Think like a 3-5 hour practice and not going over a song twice. Sometimes we might do a section of a song again, but that’s it.
I’m also in a hardcore band which is very much not a pro situation. Everyone is a pretty talented player but only one guy has any real formal musical training so things move at a relatively glacial pace because no one has a great means of communicating other than playing what you want the other guy to play over and over and hope they get it.
At the end of the day, none of us are statistically likely to reinvent the wheel. Education = communication. Music is a language so it’s kinda like teaching yourself to speak German but neglecting to learn how to read and write it. And, much like many aspects of our lives, communication is probably the most important tool in anyone’s toolbox.
I've had untrained/unschooled guitar players make disparaging comments to my face about people who read or who have some kind of formal training. I've had others seemingly brag about their ignorance.
It's not an "idea" or "insecurity".
Within the past 6 months I've had one guitar player who is pretty prominent on the local scene, refer to jazz folks as "music nerds" . While not an entirely inaccurate statement, it does speak of a mindset that exists among some self-taught people with regards to players who are more studious.
For sure...I've learnt things from completely self taught players and taught things to well trained...I do wish in hind site I would've went to university for music but it wasn't in the cards...to many people thing music is a sport and think of schooling as a competitive edge...definitively would look better on a resume and if a person's got a music degree they can be hired in that merit...where someone self trained would need referrals or auditions..itd be tougher for the self trained but a guarantee they are self motivated and be capable.providing botH hypothetical musicians are of the same skill sets
Self-taught/teaching, here. Part of it is that I am probably too lazy to learn theory but more so the frustration that comes with it. I was blessed with the ability to learn things musically without formal training and I am ok with that. However, at one point, I will be trying to understand music (theory-wise). It would give me the opportunity to play with different people and open doors for me musically. When that will happen is a mystery to me.
I haven’t found that to be true. Natural aptitude has nothing to do with training, nor does getting trained take anything away from it. A naturally bright individual doesn’t lose anything by gaining an education.
About the only differences I’ve seen with completely self-taught players is they had to work a lot harder to get where they were since they had to reinvent the wheel; and most of them were always expending unnecessary effort to work around the bad habits they picked up along the way. Some early musical education could have helped them avoid all that and allowed them to progress more quickly. It’s easier to negotiate a minefield when you have a map and someone with experience to walk you through it the first few times.
Still, if at the end of the day you can play, it really makes no difference how you got there. Nobody cares about your “process.” All that matters are the results.
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I'm self taught and proud of it! Most of my family is the same way. I have no problems with people who are not self taught. I think both ways have their advantages. One thing that has bothered me in the past is I was working production at Bonaroo and was working with a group of musicians who were "schooled" musicians and they were talking about how they hated self taught players, that self taught players had no business being in the music biz, they had no idea that I played so I said "what about the kids you see that are 10 years old playing a banjo or guitar with their family and just killing it?" and they replied " well that's just different". I just walked away from them. People who are that closed minded are not the type of people I want to be around. Self taught or classically trained doesn't really matter as long as your cool about it and don't look down on others.
I had a few lessons, but the guy was an upright player who looked down on electric, and insisted I use upright fingering, which is ridiculous on an electric. In retrospect, I should have found a better teacher, but I just wanted to play in a band, so I spent hours trashing records on my turntable: play phrase, lift needle, drop needle, scratch record, repeat. I had a good ear, so I could pick out lines and learn to play them pretty quickly, but I never learned to read music. I developed good fingering and technique on my own, kind of stumbled onto it without much instruction, and years later was told so by a pro bass teacher, but that was just luck I guess. I’d say it’s fully possible to self teach, particularly these days, where you can find mountains of free instruction on YouTube. Obviously a good teacher is better, but it’s less necessary than it used to be.
Every professional needs training. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, sales people, accountants, systems administrators, artists of all sorts. Everybody who’s had training has also been self trained. It’s a bogus question, there is no binary.
When I learn someone is self taught, my expectations go up. I get excited. Especially if the play live in a band that is pretty diverse in the type of music it plays.
Teaching has its place, but self taught , to me, always makes it more exciting to see and hear how they play.
Teaching has its place, but self taught , to me, always makes it more exciting to see and hear how they play.
Just like no one learns in a vacuum, it's harder (I think) to benefit from formal training without a solid foundation of informal influences. Here's my first "teacher": My Grandfather. I still have two of his Hammonds. My wife matted and framed my first Musician's Union Card (1980) along with his last one (1959).
I have no gut feeling either way. If I hear the words "self taught" about a musician, it would not be the same as hearing the same about a mechanic who's going to work on my car.
Maybe 30 years ago there would've been an immediate reaction, but experience has removed any immediate reaction.
Maybe 30 years ago there would've been an immediate reaction, but experience has removed any immediate reaction.
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