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Self Taught: Yea or Nay

Self Taught

  • Can't Wait!

    Votes: 116 73.0%

  • I'll Pass

    Votes: 43 27.0%
  • Total voters
    159
#181
I make a distinction between musicians who are self-taught but curious and devoted and those who are willfully ignorant. The latter can be a pain.

I took guitar lessons as a kid. I can't read music well, although I can tap out rhythms from musical notation, and can work out sheet music slooowly. I'm self-taught on bass. When I was a full-time guitar player, I taught myself a fair amount of music theory. Ultimately, I'm a rock n' roller rather than a musician, but I'm not trapped in a blues box or anything.

I've played with musicians who have both more and less formal knowledge than I do. It doesn't make that much of a difference in the genres of music that I play, and it's well worth working with great-sounding musicians with no formal knowledge, even if takes a little longer to explain concepts to them.

"Classically trained" usually means that they have good technique. It doesn't imply much about someone's capacity to improvise or compose parts. Jazz players are significantly more versatile, but you still need genre-specific knowledge, instincts and experience. John Lee Hooker never needed to go to the stinkin' Julliard, but some people do.
 
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#182
I'm "self taught" on bass. But I grew up with piano lessons for years, and spent a few years as a music major in college. Goofed around on guitar for years. So that's not really like starting out from scratch. I had extensive experience, ear training, sight reading etc. before I picked up a bass.

But I've never had a "bass lesson".
 
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#183
Speaking as someone who was self taught and then studied jazz performance in college (till I decided that I'm much happier being an engineer), I've come to the conclusion that I wish I would have taken lessons from the beginning. I got far on my own pretty fast, but I wish I had that person to teach me technique earlier instead of having to deconstruct and reconstruct my technique, which can be quite painful. While I agree that it's all about how the person ultimately plays that matters, I feel that my long time of self teaching was ultimately self-limiting. I could have been much better faster with a proper technique and practice regimen that is best given by a mentor who understands the student's goals and facilitates technique within the context of the student's goals.
 
#184
klokker said:
I'm "self taught" on bass. But I grew up with piano lessons for years, and spent a few years as a music major in college. Goofed around on guitar for years. So that's not really like starting out from scratch. I had extensive experience, ear training, sight reading etc. before I picked up a bass.

But I've never had a "bass lesson".
Click to expand...

I suspect that's the reality for most players of a certain vintage.
 
#185
You can teach yourself how to grill a filet mignon.
You can teach yourself how to knit a sweater.
You can teach yourself how to change the spark plugs on a ‘71 Plymouth.
History has proven that you can teach yourself how to play music.
 
#188
LBS-bass said:
Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.
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Isn't the bold part the definition of "self taught"? Being self-taught doesn't not mean you don't know those things, it means you didn't take lessons/classes for it.
 
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#189
For me, my gut instinct of the musician will often depend largely on how they state that they're "self taught".

Some folks state it with this arrogant after taste that makes me not want to hear them even if they are good. Otherwise I couldn't care less which of the two they are, I'll listen until I don't like what I'm hearing.

Music is awesome.
 
#191
71 Satellite.jpg


:D
 
#192
There’s the ‘I only learn by listening to music’ self taught, with no book learning, etc, (or very limited). Or there is the self taught musician who has gone on to teach themselves theory, etc, but these guys would eventually seek out a decent teacher, imo, and maybe should be classed as self taught and educated, then there’s those who had lessons from a very early age, if one really has to categorise things, I guess.
 
#193
There’s the ‘I only learn by listening to music’ self taught, with no book learning, etc, (or very limited). Or there is the self taught musician who has gone on to teach themselves theory, etc, but these guys usually would eventually seek out a decent teacher or a music school, imo, and maybe should be classed as self taught and educated, then there’s those who had lessons from a very early age, if one really has to categorise things, I guess.

Nonetheless, a brilliant musician is a brilliant musician, however they’ve managed to accomplish it.
 
#194
ctmullins said:
Depends.

Are you talking about the method of learning musical concepts?

Or do you mean the method of learning the mechanics of playing an instrument?

For instance, I’m a self-taught bassist, but a classically trained musician.

Regardless, my expectations don’t go up either way, and they don’t go down either way. They change, but it’s a lateral change.

I couldn’t vote, since there is no option for this perspective.
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Yea, I'm not sure I understand the actual poll question as its written..which it isn't.

Am I self taught? do I like self taught people? all the time? it depends on the question I suppose.

T$
 
#195
Bassdirty said:
Yea, I'm not sure I understand the actual poll question as its written..which it isn't.

Am I self taught? do I like self taught people? all the time? it depends on the question I suppose.

T$
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Yeah, I wasn't clear enough. I copped to that on page two or something, since then it's been interesting hearing people's thoughts on how they learned vs how they might have wanted to or found interesting. But yeah, people stopped answering what I meant to ask quite some time ago. All my fault. When half of a group doesn't understand what you meant to say, it's not as though you can put the blame on them:D
 
#196
Xjenrbcjsmsbfjw said:
There are amazing players who are self taught, and there are awful ones. There are amazing players who are classically trained and there are awful ones. This is NOT the way to judge a musician! But before hearing a player, if you hear the words "self taught," in that instinctual gut-check part of yourself, do your expectations go up or down.

Definitely explain your choice if you want, but lets avoid the lists of names if at all possible. I doubt there is a player alive who would say "all self taught players are good/bad" or "all trained players are good/bad." The examples either way sort of prove jack, and I'm wondering what your gut tells you.
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I say the obvious, It depends on the person. what kind of stu dent they are. I'd say usually a player benefits from some instruction/direction. I consider myself self taught, but i did have lessons very early on. I understood more sooner than my peers,
LBS-bass said:
Self taught works brilliantly if you have an inherent musical gift. Everyone else needs more traditional teaching. However, even the most brilliant self-taught players will benefit from some study of music fundamentals and basic theory and notation, even if it's study they do on their own.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. a lot depends on the student & more on the teacher. In high school my best friend was a very gifted, & selftaught guitarist. I however was the opposite. I like to think i was just a late bloomer, but benefited from learning Theory early on. I still use the principles I learned in those early lessons. It's funny My friend resisted any sort of instruction, taking stubborn pride in saying he was self taught! He was brilliant, he could play randy rhoads & EVH note for note! He even got called to audition from several Bands (ozzy, RHCP & many others) after we graduated. He was always motivated to excell. while i struggled in the shed. I always thought he could've benefited from some advanced instruction, but he remained stubborn & resisted any lessons. it just depends on the student/musician
 
#197
A teacher isn't going to make you good or bad. A good teacher will save you time, a bad teacher will waste your time.
When I heard that someone is self-taught, I'm interested in how well they play.
I suspect that it took them longer to get where they are than it would have taken with a good teacher.
I am suspect there may be parts of their understanding that may be missing.
 
#198
I have found that some schooled musicians, who through the circumstances of their background and upbringing; that is parents who could afford music lessons, or attending schools with music programs or even post-secondary music education sometimes will act a little superior towards someone who might not have as much musical education as them.

At the same time, I have encountered quite a bit of arrogance as well from musically gifted people, particularly those who have the ability to hear something and play it back on their instrument almost immediately, when they are faced with a mere mortal who has to learn a song the hard way.

But in the real world, and the Talkbass world is broad, I suspect most members are casual or semi-pro players, what counts is can you play, either in a casual weekend jam band, occasional pro gig or even full time. We are all on a different journey and occasionally we meet at a destination.
 
#200
I wonder how many of the African-American prisoners were formally educated in Alan Lomax’s recordings? If only they had been trained, they would have “technically” been better.

They would have gained so much more soul through a teacher telling them and teaching them to have a soul. Too bad, I suppose.
 

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