Self Taught: Yea or Nay

[bigboy_78]

Their learning methodology wouldn't even be a consideration for me. The proof is in the playing.

I don’t think I’ve ever really asked someone learnt to play. I’ve been frustrated by some people’s lack of knowledge and intimidated by others, but I’ve never cared for the cause of either.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

If being self-taught is an attractive idea to someone, find some goals of progress and see if you can reach them in a timely fashion. If you can do that, being an autodidact maybe ideal for you. If you can’t maintain the schedule, you need a teacher.

 

[bbh]

A teacher isn't going to make you good or bad. A good teacher will save you time, a bad teacher will waste your time.
When I heard that someone is self-taught, I'm interested in how well they play.
I suspect that it took them longer to get where they are than it would have taken with a good teacher.
I am suspect there may be parts of their understanding that may be missing.

Or more simply, a good teacher should inspire you.

 

[Minimalist]

Surely there is someone in the world with whom you would benefit from having a lesson with. I mean, it's hard for me to understand why someone would think that every sort of formalized education is worthless to them, in all circumstances. But, you know, people are different.

I

If being self-taught is an attractive idea to someone, find some goals of progress and see if you can reach them in a timely fashion. If you can do that, being an autodidact maybe ideal for you. If you can’t maintain the schedule, you need a teacher.

Or you need to adjust your schedule.

 

[BassChuck]

Or more simply, a good teacher should inspire you.

A good teacher knows the path you are on, and can plot for you the next logical and achievable goal. In other words showing the next usable 'baby step'. This is what learning is all about. The power of achievement and the joy of learning is where the inspiration comes from.
If you are counting on someone to do something for you, likely you'll not succeed. No one will build a desire inside you, you have to do that yourself by believing in yourself. A good teacher can show you the way, but you have to take the next step... and the next... and the next.

 

[Bent77]

I’m self taught and I still suck. voted no

 

[Luke_94]

There are amazing players who are self taught, and there are awful ones. There are amazing players who are classically trained and there are awful ones. This is NOT the way to judge a musician! But before hearing a player, if you hear the words "self taught," in that instinctual gut-check part of yourself, do your expectations go up or down.

Definitely explain your choice if you want, but lets avoid the lists of names if at all possible. I doubt there is a player alive who would say "all self taught players are good/bad" or "all trained players are good/bad." The examples either way sort of prove jack, and I'm wondering what your gut tells you.

In my experience, there is no such thing as a self taught musician. Anyone who picks up an instrument and doesn't go to a teacher is bound to learn almost everything off of Youtube or by ear. You can learn anything off the internet. Even if you do go to a teacher, Youtube is more likely to be able to teach you more. Any lesson you need on technique, theory, composition, orchestration etc. is at your disposal with a click of a button.
Even if you don't use Youtube, you can learn a great deal by listening to records and mimicking their playing

 

[Polfuste]

Self taught always interest me: sometimes folks are more original than schooled ones cause they take different ways than formal ones and bring surprise in the playing, even if there is less "good" technique. And i love being surprised by music.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Whether someone is highly trained or self taught, one thing that is important to me is they have a good memorised repertoire and playing music such as 'All the things you are', isn't an issue. Whether you are self taught or schooled doesn't matter, if you can use the knowledge you have in a musical way, does.

Any self taught musicians comfortable with playing (and soloing) over 'All the things'? Just curious.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

One advantage of a good teacher is proper posture, how you hold the instrument, etc to avoid carpal tunnel or other repetitive motion injuries. Thats available online too, though you have to hunt for it a little. One of the better subscription services is Scott’s Bass Lessons. Ear training can improve a good ear, but if you are tone deaf, no amount of instruction will cure it. Lots of great players are terrible teachers too, it’s rare to find somebody who can do both really well. Maybe the ideal is a teacher and and the unbelievable resources on YT.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I don't know whether to count myself "self-taught" or not. If you count only bass, then perhaps; however, I had a lot of musical training before I discovered the correct instrument for me. I grew up in a musical family, so everyone played something. I started piano at 6, I was in band from 5th grade to highschool graduation on trombone. My aunt taught me a little bit of guitar, and I discovered bass when I went into the navy.
So I had the musical experience. All I had to do was learn the fingerboard and some technique. It wasn't that easy in 1963, because there weren't a lot of bass players around and we didn't have the internet and no way to argue about tort or tone wood. So, I guess maybe I'm a hybrid.

 

[Mark Ambler]

+1 Hybrid

 

[J-Mags]

Whether someone is highly trained or self taught, one thing that is important to me is they have a good memorised repertoire and playing music such as 'All the things you are', isn't an issue. Whether you are self taught or schooled doesn't matter, if you can use the knowledge you have in a musical way, does.

Any self taught musicians comfortable with playing (and soloing) over 'All the things'? Just curious.

I supposedly learned "All The Things Your Are" in guitar lessons, but I'm pretty sure I'd fail the "All the Things" test, and I can make some decent music. I'd be the wrong player in your band, but really depends what you intend to do in music.

There are great musicians who are genre-bound to varying degrees, and those who are generalists, although being a generalist doesn't mean that you can play anything, it just means that you can play in more different styles. I know well-educated musicians who are incapable of hearing unfamiliar music and grasping what's important about the way it's played, and I know self-taught musicians who can do nearly everything.

Someone posted a clip of Henry Rollins and Cyndi Lauper singing an old Black Flag song with whatever accomplished session pros were the backup band for the benefit they were playing in LA. My first thought was that I hoped the drummer wasn't auditioning for any punk rock bands any time soon.

Music education is just like any other education. To a certain extent, more education is always better; it gives you new tools and faculties. But it's not a panacea, and some people are just dumb, no matter how many Ph.Ds they accumulate.

 

[LBS-bass]

Totally agree with you. I would always prefer to work with a good ear player, no need for any conversations at all, and yes contrary to what some people believe there are players out there who can hear a C#7b5b9 and play it back without naming it (though not many, I admit). Those are the real musicians, and they are pure gold. On the other side of the coin, there's nothing worse IMHO than arguing for 10 mins with a formally trained musician about "whether B is technically Cb" because we're playing in this key or that. Just play the darned thing, then we'll all know! (sorry for the rant, feel a lot better now!)

I'm blessed to be working with a couple of guys like this right now. Had a session yesterday and we put together some pretty difficult material in an hour or so. The drummer was ecstatic that we were able to finish up one song he'd been wanting to do with a band for years.

At one point we started playing another song which I know has some complicated chords in it. I have book with that song in in somewhere, so I thought maybe I could pull that out for the guitarist to make it a little easier. I started looking for it and he said, "don't bother, I would know the basics already, but looking at those chord names I can't make out all the numbers and letters that follow them." Yet this guy can hear and play those chords all day long. He's not as fast at figuring out jazzy chords as some other people I've worked with, but he's pretty darned fast at it.

 

[LBS-bass]

Whether someone is highly trained or self taught, one thing that is important to me is they have a good memorised repertoire and playing music such as 'All the things you are', isn't an issue. Whether you are self taught or schooled doesn't matter, if you can use the knowledge you have in a musical way, does.

Any self taught musicians comfortable with playing (and soloing) over 'All the things'? Just curious.

I'll raise my hand on that and add that I sing it, too.

 

[Roland GR 88]

I don't expect anything from someone's description of themselves. My instinctual response of either answer would be.....so what, can they play ?

 

[Mark Ambler]

I'll raise my hand on that and add that I sing it, too.

Sing 'All the things' and play at the same is pretty cool! I referenced 'All the things' as its a good example of 'changes', could've been many other tunes, 'Have you met miss Jones', 'Dolphin Dance' (even though that's a Jazz original). Unfortunately the irealbook app is getting used way too much on gigs, and many of the changes are just meh. Memorisation is one of the most important skills to acquire, and it will make the performance so much better, in many cases.

 

[LBS-bass]

Sing 'All the things' and play at the same is pretty cool! I referenced 'All the things' as its a good example of 'changes', could've been many other tunes, 'Have you met miss Jones', 'Dolphin Dance' (even though that's a Jazz original). Unfortunately the irealbook app is getting used way too much on gigs, and many of the changes are just meh. Memorisation is one of the most important skills to acquire, and it will make the performance so much better, in many cases.

I agree; I've been learning a few standards using charts, but I have always been a person who plays best from memory, as it frees me up to get into the flow. Soloing is not my strong suit, but I was advised by another member here when I started learning these songs that I should learn the head at the same time, as that would give me a starting point for improvising a solo. I have to say it's been great advice. I'm still not the world's best soloist or improviser, but having the melody under my belt gives me a lot more meat to work with.

 

[Robscott]

Whether someone is highly trained or self taught, one thing that is important to me is they have a good memorised repertoire and playing music such as 'All the things you are', isn't an issue. Whether you are self taught or schooled doesn't matter, if you can use the knowledge you have in a musical way, does.

Any self taught musicians comfortable with playing (and soloing) over 'All the things'? Just curious.

Yep, self taught guy here, I'm happy to take a solo on All The Things, Night In Tunisia, Desafinado, Seven Steps To Heaven, How High The Moon, whatever you want. The way I see it, the key to all this is a basic degree of underlying musicality. If you have that, there's lots of different ways you can learn how the chords, scales, melody, rhythm all connect. Some prefer a formal learning environment, while others prefer to explore and experiment, rely more on their ear, pick up bits and pieces from other musos and basically piece it together for themselves. Probably some have a mixture of both. People have different ways of learning IMHO, but if the musicality is there it's there, and if it ain't it ain't

 

[Mark Ambler]

I agree; I've been learning a few standards using charts, but I have always been a person who plays best from memory, as it frees me up to get into the flow. Soloing is not my strong suit, but I was advised by another member here when I started learning these songs that I should learn the head at the same time, as that would give me a starting point for improvising a solo. I have to say it's been great advice. I'm still not the world's best soloist or improviser, but having the melody under my belt gives me a lot more meat to work with.

Yes, learning the melody is essential. The harmony, (chord changes) support the melody anyway, so it’s much easier to remember the song if you know the melody.
I’ve been a working Pianist for a very long time, so I guess my approach to learning bass has been influenced by that. Regardless of you’re chosen instrument, some piano skills are essential, imo.