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Should custom ordered basses be by contract?

#23
Thanks guys for your comments my friend lo end put the question out for me,by no means i'm trying create a hostal enviroment with builder and customer,but to beware that some builders will say one thing and do another. Many of you talk about your custom bass being rush,I'm sure nobody wants that, I'm saying once the builder gives you a time period should he know or have an ideal how long it takes to products that perticular instrument. I agree 100% both parties should be protected, I'm willing to agree to extensions due to other factors that can delay a builder,I'm not talking about rushing your order,I understand some basses may take longer than others,but please don't tell me 4months and you know it's going to take a year,keep the lines of communication open let me know whats going on I know some things can change on the fly just let me know about it don't take the money or down payment and say nothing a long time afterwards, these instruments are huge investments for most of us,just keep us the mix. I believe most instruments can be done on time with good communication. johnny b
 
#24
I think that luthiers who have been in the business for a long time should have made enaugh instruments to give a fairly accurate estimate as to lead times.
I can't see why they should have to "cut corners".
I never had problems with a luthier taking too long on a bass he was making for me but there are certain ones (one in particular ) who seem to make it a habbit to have their clients wait an unreasonable amount of time.
If I was to order a bass from them I would ask for a contract I guess.:hyper:
 
#25
I think any builder that ever runs over by more than 25% needs to take a good look at their project planning model and make some adjustments. I understand that things always take longer than you think they will, but if you're making your customers suffer then in the long haul so will your business.
 
#26
I think honesty, communication, and a good reputation is what makes some of the good luthiers stay in business.

My work with Rob Allen has been top notch. My work with Bill Conklin and Cliff Bordwell have been great so far, but the products are still being built (well within the time frame). Nonetheless, there are tons of great builders out there. These guys are usually on the money or at least reasonably close.

Stuff happens, though. Certain supplies or components can go on back order. Since they usually have a small staff, illness, injury etc, can set back production.

With my MB2, it took a little longer than expected to get the custom pickups. Bill Conklin had received 2 bad pieces of dymondwood for the fingerboard. Sure, they could have cut corners to make things happen on time, but doing things right takes time and makes it all worth it.

Contracts are ok, BUT sometimes there can be mistakes in interpretation. What we think we're saying doesn't translate to what we had in mind.

Also, keep in mind we're sometimes asking luthiers to build something crazy that has never been done before from scratch!
 
#27
I agree, when I ordered my Status, I was told 12 weeks til completion. Now Status had NEVER built a 6 string Mark King before and let me know that mine would be the first one, I started to worry then but not only was it near perfect when I got it but It was also done in 10 1/2 weeks! I've commissioned two basses from Bud LeCompte, both of which were first time models, the second being a model that I dreamed up out of my head AND it was his first headless. These basses were both done in less than 6 months I believe, great instruments and quality. The first LeCompte I ordered was delayed due to a small issue but still shipped out on time, Bud was great about being upfront with possible delays through emails and phone calls. This is what we as consumers expect from luthiers with whom we intrust with our life long passion, money and bread and butter machines. When I hear someone say that waiting two years for a bass was "worth the wait", I feel as long as the luthier told him that, fine, but if not, no. The Bebense(did I spell that right?:D ) thing just blew my mind but I have great respect for the customer for displaying that kind of patience.
 
#28
It really seems to me that the actual question/concern is regarding luthiers who make a routine practice of time over-runs and over-commitments, and usually those same builders have some really bad communication skills. There is a whole lot of information available here at TB pertaining to just about every luthier in the bass business (with the exception of maybe a new builder that doesn't have any volume under his/her belt), a few minutes of searching will give you a really good idea of who those "problem" luthiers are.

Too many small details can crop up during a custom build that will slow things down, and I'd be willing to bet that, more often than not, we end-user bass players are a big part of the slow down. I have read through a bunch of threads here at TB where the customer is constantly changing the specs on the bass during the build period, then b*tching about how long the bass took to get done .... :rolleyes: A "contract" would only serve to slow things down even further.

Do your reseach before you order. If the guy you want to build your axe has a lot of bad publicity here at TB, don't be surprised when the bass delivery times lag ..... :rollno:
 
#29
There are a lot of first class builders in this business, guys like Michael Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Pete Skjold, Chris Stambaugh, Jimmy Coppella, and Nino Valenti. I know Roger does a contract and offers a try out warranty with his products. I have heard nothing but good reports about their workmanship or delivery. I'm sure I've overlooked a few, but these are guys that either I or close personal friends have dealt with. They deliver within the specified dates, in most cases they give themselves some lag time for problem issues. If something effects them beyond their control they inform the customer. The key is for the luthier to be honest IN THE BEGINNING and not make promises they know they can't keep. Their is one very good J Bass maker I would not consider dealing with even though his instruments are excellent. I have no patience for makers in the high end of the market that don't offer good customer service. It is inexcusable.
 
#30
burk48237 said:
There are a lot of first class builders in this business, guys like Michael Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Pete Skjold, Chris Stambaugh, Jimmy Coppella, and Nino Valenti. I know Roger does a contract and offers a try out warranty with his products. I have heard nothing but good reports about their workmanship or delivery. I'm sure I've overlooked a few, but these are guys that either I or close personal friends have dealt with. They deliver within the specified dates, in most cases they give themselves some lag time for problem issues. If something effects them beyond their control they inform the customer. The key is for the luthier to be honest IN THE BEGINNING and not make promises they know they can't keep. Their is one very good J Bass maker I would not consider dealing with even though his instruments are excellent. I have no patience for makers in the high end of the market that don't offer good customer service. It is inexcusable.
Click to expand...
+1
P.S. Your sig had me LOL!!!
 
#32
I've been lucky and had some great custom basses done with several luthiers (Sheldon Dingwall, Michael Tobias, Rob Green, Jens Ritter, Jon Shuker to name a few). What I can say is mutual respect, communication and thorough planning allows for leeway for the obstacles that are bound to come (I am sure it happens to all professions). And let's not forget: we pay them, we don't buy them; on the other hand, they get paid to provide a product, not just a service or product with no quality or respect to the agreed specs
 
#35
While I don't have a customer bass, I do perform quite a bit of consultation work. Prior to beginning any work, I always have a written contract that mentions:

1. Responsibilities of both parties.
2. Specifics of work being done. In your case it would be materials, colors, dimensions etc...
3. Dates/Milestones. When the building completes some percentage of the work, you would send a certain amount of payment.

Even if it's not a legal binding contract, I would make sure I had a single document signed by both parties stating #2.
 
#36
Rodent said:
what if a part supplier delays delivery of your custom order pre-amp (something a builder has NO control over)
Click to expand...

What if? You mean when ;) I had Bartolini take 16 months to send pickups they said would be out in a week or two. I had a bass sit for a year with holes cut for a Bart only sized pickup. As a rule all the suppliers I dealt with were late by weeks or months. The bigger companies like StewMac or LMII could get orders out in time but orders placed at NAMM were often wrong and always late.

I would never guarantee a delivery date :)
 

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