Should I bail?

[ToddB1963]

If it were me, I'd have bailed as soon as he booked the studio date without asking for your availability. That shows pretty much where he's at with it. He's the bandleader, so I guess he gets to make decisions about how he want to view the other in the band, and he's treating everyone else like hired guns. So let him hire someone else.

The next step on this will be him asking you to learn his recorded lines so that it "sounds like the record."

This

I experienced an almost identical scenario earlier this year, and on the strength of that, I'd suggest you cut your losses and exit gracefully...

Here's what happened:

Two friends and I offered to help a guy - gratis - to work up, arrange and record his original material - his best stuff.

About a half-dozen sessions in, the songs were sounding good, but our guy was in such a hurry to record, he went off half-cocked and booked studio time when at least two of us were not available.

The producer ignored the arrangements and convinced our guy that he could do better ( at a few hundred an hour mind you ), and thus re-arranged everything to HIS liking. Our guy then came back with the rough demos and asked us to record our parts over them. Trouble is, only one of them bore any resemblance to our original arrangement, while another was so comically bad I had to suppress my laughter upon hearing it for the first time.

It was at that point I exited the project (but did so under good terms).

All up I'd spent $250 in diesel driving to and from rehearsals, and more importantly, had wasted perhaps 50 hours I could otherwise have spent at home with my wife...

 

[Shepsdad]

I think it’s odd, in this day and age, that a guy would “book studio time” in the first place. I mean, yeah, sure, if you have all your ducks in a row, good material, and the people needed to pull it off, no problem. But this guy apparently opted to ignore those details and slap his money down anyway?

 

[themickster]

So, been playing with two less experienced and younger guitar players for a few months now. We've been writing songs, adapting covers, etc. The two younger guitar players and in particular the band leader have a little of what I'd call 'delusions of grandeur'. We have good ideas and the stuff sounds good and fun, but nothing to get carried away over, especially since none of us are particularly great players.

A couple weeks ago the BL said he wanted to get into a studio to record three songs. I said the best weekend for me was the veteran's day long weekend, the second guitarist agreed. BL said that was 'too late in the year'? and went ahead and booked this past weekend without even confirming with us. The two of us couldn't go, so he went in the studio himself and recorded the songs, which he clearly sees as his own rather than a collaborative effort. Evidenced by the fact he did not play the bass lines I have been playing, and did other editing to the second guitar part.

He's still texting us about next practice and stuff, but I for one am pretty peeved that he ignored my very reasonable scheduling request, then rewrote all my parts. On top of that, he has no experience playing bass and the parts he did record sound like crap: no string muting, bad tone, etc. At no point has he given any explanation of why there is a rush to record these, but I suspect it's a need to get stuff uploaded and shareable on social media to impress people.

I don't really have time to spare on something where I'm just going to get overrun and treated like a spare part, particularly when I'm probably the most experienced member of the group. On the other hand: it's really the only band opportunity I've got on the horizon or that I've had in awhile, particularly that plays a genre I'm into and might actually continue to play shows. But I don't respond to bullying or being ignored. Am I right to regard the red flag and just bail before sinking any more of my short time into this?

He's in the wrong. Don't let him bully you any more.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I think it’s odd, in this day and age, that a guy would “book studio time” in the first place. I mean, yeah, sure, if you have all your ducks in a row, good material, and the people needed to pull it off, no problem. But this guy apparently opted to ignore those details and slap his money down anyway?

If you can't get anything together at home, you have no bidness spending money at a "studio"...

 

[Hot Rats]

Bail. I mean, is it it satisfying any part of your life?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

So, been playing with two less experienced and younger guitar players for a few months now. We've been writing songs, adapting covers, etc. The two younger guitar players and in particular the band leader have a little of what I'd call 'delusions of grandeur'. We have good ideas and the stuff sounds good and fun, but nothing to get carried away over, especially since none of us are particularly great players.

A couple weeks ago the BL said he wanted to get into a studio to record three songs. I said the best weekend for me was the veteran's day long weekend, the second guitarist agreed. BL said that was 'too late in the year'? and went ahead and booked this past weekend without even confirming with us. The two of us couldn't go, so he went in the studio himself and recorded the songs, which he clearly sees as his own rather than a collaborative effort. Evidenced by the fact he did not play the bass lines I have been playing, and did other editing to the second guitar part.

He's still texting us about next practice and stuff, but I for one am pretty peeved that he ignored my very reasonable scheduling request, then rewrote all my parts. On top of that, he has no experience playing bass and the parts he did record sound like crap: no string muting, bad tone, etc. At no point has he given any explanation of why there is a rush to record these, but I suspect it's a need to get stuff uploaded and shareable on social media to impress people.

I don't really have time to spare on something where I'm just going to get overrun and treated like a spare part, particularly when I'm probably the most experienced member of the group. On the other hand: it's really the only band opportunity I've got on the horizon or that I've had in awhile, particularly that plays a genre I'm into and might actually continue to play shows. But I don't respond to bullying or being ignored. Am I right to regard the red flag and just bail before sinking any more of my short time into this?

Your situation is a classic example of what can happen entering into collaborative effort without having a written agreement on control and or ownership of your intellectual work.

Truly this sucks and I feel bad for you. Before I’d play another note with this guy, he needs to understand that you own your work. Secondly, you have no intentions of playing his crap parts, and if he ever decides to publish this work (which is a really good idea if you plan on having your stuff on the internet) without your bass parts he better disclose you are not the bassist.

I hope you can get this straightened out.

 

[tr4252]

Is this the same band from the "Am I right to pump the brakes?" thread?
Tom

 

[Durham52]

Here's the thing. I'll assume you're all adults. You talk to adults like an adult. You DON'T just take all your marbles and go home. Then you're no better than him.

Calmly, but firmly, express to him that what he did was unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

You have NO IDEA how he will react to that.

It could be "Screw you. You're fired." (In which case, the end result is the same. You're out of the band. No big deal.)

Or, on the other end of the spectrum, it could be "Dude, I'm SO SORRY. I just got so excited that I wanted to get these songs done. It won't happen again. Lemme buy you a beer and let's talk about some of your ideas."

Very likely, the truth will be somewhere in between.

But TALK to the guy. Sure, what he did was stupid. But if I kicked to the curb every friend of family member who ever did something stupid to me I would be very lonely. Same goes for me. I need a second chance from time to time.

Be the grown up. It may get you nowhere. But it may get you a continued project with more collaboration and friendship.


Seriously, just quitting makes you no better than him. A grown up conversation is needed here.

This above a 100%.

You obviously know him better than we all do, but not very well, as you're asking us for opinions. Talk to the guy and see if he really is a Richard Cranium, or just a bit delusional about his abilities and got over excited.

Yeah, there are lots of people here who grab the torches and pitch forks strait away and say run, but all that will achieve is you never knowing if you threw away a good thing, or avoided a bad one. At least if you talk, you'll know and which ever way it turns out, you won't be second guessing or wondering if you made the right decision..

 

[pbass2]

Yes.

 

[tmvt]

These two should sum it up pretty good

RUN

FAST

 

[LBS-bass]

This above a 100%.

You obviously know him better than we all do, but not very well, as you're asking us for opinions. Talk to the guy and see if he really is a Richard Cranium, or just a bit delusional about his abilities and got over excited.

Yeah, there are lots of people here who grab the torches and pitch forks strait away and say run, but all that will achieve is you never knowing if you threw away a good thing, or avoided a bad one. At least if you talk, you'll know and which ever way it turns out, you won't be second guessing or wondering if you made the right decision..

Well maybe. But my experience is that people who act like this guy don’t care what you want to talk about. People show you who they are with their actions. Talk it over if you must but I would not be expecting much.

 

[flannel cat]

Sometimes kids need a wake up call now and then ,its how they grow with life lessons.....
I would give him a chance...At least one, if it doesnt vibe and he wont get his head out of la,la land after a chat,
go ahead and bail..
I had a band mate that was a control freak and I put up with it for quite awhile because i just loved what we did music wise ,,but i bailed eventually and it all worked out in the end on my part.
But one thing for sure i too would be miffed about the studio thing, make sure you let him know he screwed up and you are not just some bass monkey at his disposal...
hope it works out for you either way.

 

[Fynn]

So, been playing with two less experienced and younger guitar players for a few months now. We've been writing songs, adapting covers, etc. The two younger guitar players and in particular the band leader have a little of what I'd call 'delusions of grandeur'. We have good ideas and the stuff sounds good and fun, but nothing to get carried away over, especially since none of us are particularly great players.

A couple weeks ago the BL said he wanted to get into a studio to record three songs. I said the best weekend for me was the veteran's day long weekend, the second guitarist agreed. BL said that was 'too late in the year'? and went ahead and booked this past weekend without even confirming with us. The two of us couldn't go, so he went in the studio himself and recorded the songs, which he clearly sees as his own rather than a collaborative effort. Evidenced by the fact he did not play the bass lines I have been playing, and did other editing to the second guitar part.

He's still texting us about next practice and stuff, but I for one am pretty peeved that he ignored my very reasonable scheduling request, then rewrote all my parts. On top of that, he has no experience playing bass and the parts he did record sound like crap: no string muting, bad tone, etc. At no point has he given any explanation of why there is a rush to record these, but I suspect it's a need to get stuff uploaded and shareable on social media to impress people.

I don't really have time to spare on something where I'm just going to get overrun and treated like a spare part, particularly when I'm probably the most experienced member of the group. On the other hand: it's really the only band opportunity I've got on the horizon or that I've had in awhile, particularly that plays a genre I'm into and might actually continue to play shows. But I don't respond to bullying or being ignored. Am I right to regard the red flag and just bail before sinking any more of my short time into this?

Again, all things that could've been solved through communication. How much effort did you put into writing these songs with him? Is it mostly his stuff? Did you even contribute at all, if your basslines weren't used? You're confused about what he means with too late in the year. Why didn't you ask him about that immediately?

It baffles me how grown adults have such a lack of empathy for one another. I'd suggest you be the grown up here and tell him that you could record a better bass line and do that. Unless you don't really care. In which case I would be on his side, even though it was kind of a dick move, but he wants to make music and you want to live your life as normal with a little bit of hobby music on the side.

He's the leader, he got no contractual obligations towards you or the other guy. There's really not much more to say. He can do whatever he wants. Either you guys are friends and you tag along, or you leave. Your choice... But I would stop being so bitter about the situation.

I've had this conversation with so many different people in my life again and again. There's no point in being mad about anything. Talking to one another isn't that hard. You might have to put your ego aside for a minute or two though.

 

[Fynn]

Your situation is a classic example of what can happen entering into collaborative effort without having a written agreement on control and or ownership of your intellectual work.

Truly this sucks and I feel bad for you. Before I’d play another note with this guy, he needs to understand that you own your work. Secondly, you have no intentions of playing his crap parts, and if he ever decides to publish this work (which is a really good idea if you plan on having your stuff on the internet) without your bass parts he better disclose you are not the bassist.

I hope you can get this straightened out.

You got marriage contracts in the US? Another great example of a situation where many people will say "yeah, this is something private and emotional and surely nothing will ever go wrong". I don't think I would ever commit any real time into something where it's a collaborative work without writing some sort of contract. Takes a couple of minutes and your best friend could become your worst enemy...

 

[mikewalker]

run run run run awayyyyyyy.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

You got marriage contracts in the US? Another great example of a situation where many people will say "yeah, this is something private and emotional and surely nothing will ever go wrong". I don't think I would ever commit any real time into something where it's a collaborative work without writing some sort of contract. Takes a couple of minutes and your best friend could become your worst enemy...

Isn’t that the truth brother?? If anyone wonders why there are so many one hit wonders…. Or the reason bands break up, a lot of the time this is it.

 

[LBS-bass]

Isn’t that the truth brother?? If anyone wonders what there are so many one hit wonders…. Or the reason bands break up, a lot of the time this is it.

I think these are things many of us learn the hard way. OPs turn.

 

[DJ Bebop]

...let him know he screwed up and you are not just some bass monkey at his disposal...

"I am not a bass monkey, I am a bass ape!"

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I think these are things many of us learn the hard way. OPs turn.

Our lead singer (musical director) had an adverse experience with a recording contract, and my high school music teacher had an intellectual ownership issue that became a huge top 40 hit that netted him zilch, both back in the 60’s that has lead me to be extremely focused on this sort of thing.

At the present have our own publishing company, complete with list of the credits you get for your work on material. What this does is it takes all the stress out of producing music. Not that we are making a ton of money, but what we don’t want is to make somebody else on the outside a lot of money based on our work, without compensation.

We have records of our internet sales, not bragging but we have sold music in 43 countries, egads, we’re all in our 70’s for heavens sakes. The point is, you all need to understand when you put thing on the internet just how much your exposure is.

 

[Cloudspine]

I think it’s odd, in this day and age, that a guy would “book studio time” in the first place. I mean, yeah, sure, if you have all your ducks in a row, good material, and the people needed to pull it off, no problem. But this guy apparently opted to ignore those details and slap his money down anyway?

Yes