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Shuttle 6 Failed Me This Weekend

musicman7722

musicman7722

Feb 12, 2007
3,012
1,381
Hampton NH
www.chrisparkersound.com
#1
I played my third gig with my shuttle 6 this weekend. It was an outside gig and soundcheck went fine. Stepped up to play the first tune and every other note from the Shuttle was gone. I freaked out mentally. Grabbed a guitar cable and exchanged my wireless for that. No difference. Then after the song I replaced the speakon nothing. Turns out the power wasn't very good. It was an outside gig. All our gear was having trouble but my amp would not work. I switched to IEM's and had the soundman place the bass in the wedges. No change, the IEM's were in and out as well. Geeze. FOH was still getting a good DI signal from the Shuttle so I left that alone and had him set me up another monitor with my bass in it. So all this has me rethinking these digital amps. The guitard on my side of the stage had an older peavey tube amp and though the power light flickered and he had to turn it up a bit to reach his normal outage his amp rocked on. Anybody else have this happen? Chris
 
#3
This is a big problem with digital power amps. They must have continuous good voltage from the mains. I had a Stewart World 1.6 fail me on three outdoor gigs and that was enough.
I use Mesa tube amps now. Big transformers, capacitors and tubes are much more forgiving with fluxuating voltages.
 
#4
If power was bad like that, I wouldn't want to put any gear on it. These digital amps will work with power conditions that are safe enough. It sounds like you probably needed a voltage regulator. That's not an unusual situation at all, and hardly a Shuttle problem. Your head didn't fail you in the least. You just had a crappy power source.
 
#6
+1, I can pretty much bet you that the quality of the power you were getting at this outdoor gig was sub par, once your power supply cables get over 100 feet in length away from where your power originates (the actual electric panel NOT the socket the extension cords are plugged into...) you are looking at Voltage drop becoming an issue, throw in some more than likely undersized extension cords/temporary wiring and your power hungry low notes :bassist::bassist::bassist: at the end of the power chain & it becomes an even more serious issue. I think every gigging player should go to big orange or big blue and buy the $35 Greenlee Digital multimeter / outlet tester / voltage alert combo pack, it is all you will ever need as a gigging bass player to know if you are plugging into a properly wired electrical outlet. Well, I hope it was a power issue causing this anyway, I vote yes.
 
#7
Interesting. I didn't know the digital switching amps were that sensitive to power fluctuations. It's a little disconcerting - I was planning on buying a Shuttle in the next week or two. The whole reason for me buying it was to have a simple, lightweight amp solution. I don't want to have to carry around a voltage regulator, too... :hmm:
 
#8
SuperDuck said:
Interesting. I didn't know the digital switching amps were that sensitive to power fluctuations. It's a little disconcerting - I was planning on buying a Shuttle in the next week or two. The whole reason for me buying it was to have a simple, lightweight amp solution. I don't want to have to carry around a voltage regulator, too... :hmm:
Click to expand...


I'm not sure they are. I've been using class D/SMPS amps for many, many years, outside, inside, etc., and have never had a problem. There is no inherent reason that a class D amp and/or an amp with an SMPS should behave differently regarding power fluctuations at this point in the design cycle of these technologies.

There was a large thread recently about a significant number of 6.0's losing power, so my guess is, it was something else. I assume Genz has this issue well under control now... something to do with the effects send or something of the sort.

The OP should have the unit checked out IMO.

Edit: It's also my understanding that the voltage regulators don't really do much, short of buying a VERY expensive unit.
 
#9
Couple of thoughts:

A lot of people have reported so-called "digital" amps tending to shut down or drop out more easily with insufficient power, compared to traditional amps. The traditional amps supposedly are more likely to lose a bit of strength, or have distortion, but keep working. This is just anecdotal, internet talk, but there's enough of it that it's reasonable to ask the question whether that's what happened here.

Also there's a big difference between a voltage regulator, which provides a stable voltage level, and a voltage conditioner, which does very little typically.
 
#11
bongomania said:
Couple of thoughts:

A lot of people have reported so-called "digital" amps tending to shut down or drop out more easily with insufficient power, compared to traditional amps. The traditional amps supposedly are more likely to lose a bit of strength, or have distortion, but keep working. This is just anecdotal, internet talk, but there's enough of it that it's reasonable to ask the question whether that's what happened here.

Also there's a big difference between a voltage regulator, which provides a stable voltage level, and a voltage conditioner, which does very little typically.
Click to expand...

I do believe this was true in the past... it shouldn't be any more. Not sure though, but given the significant number of 'power drop' 6.0 posts, it seems something else might be going on here.

Regarding regulators.... +1. My point was that, from what I understand, the lower cost units labeled as 'regulators' really aren't.
 
#12
Ken, from what I've seen it's the items labeled "power conditioners" that are worthless. A voltage regulator should really be just that. There might be someone out there pulling a scam though.
 
#13
Wow.. that stinks. Must have been really bad power, and I gotta agree it is not really fair to stick it all on the amp...
I played an outdoor gig on Memorial Day weekend at a new WaterPark and the entire stage was powered by 2 generators. I ran dual shuttles and never missed a note!! I dont know where the power threshold is, but i luckily stayed above it and had NO problems.

Thats kinda like saying my car failed me because it ran out of gas..... the cars fault?!?!??!?
 
#14
:cool:

Something similar happened, to me.

I have a Shuttle 3.0T with extension cab.

I have use this amp at low volume. For practice. (never more than half way)

Played it at a gig two days ago.

The was a lose of power. ( no way was this amp putting out 300 watts.)
Also, there was a buzz that got louder as I played.

And a pronounced hiss, if I activated treble boost.

This was a Head issue.

Has Genz Benz rushed production, to meet demand of these products?
 
#15
For musicman7722, low voltage from a generator or really long power cable can indeed cause problems with both analog and digital power amps. The dropout threshold for the Shuttles is somewhere around 90 volts, and for our analog amps it's around 95 volts (non-Japanese market versions of course). The symptom you will see are flickering of the LEDs and intermittent drop into protect and back to operate mode. The audio will drop out, become distorted and intermittent. This would not be a fault of the amplifier. For the analog amps, the units will drop into and out of protect but not sound distorted, due to different AC line detection methods, the analog amps use a rate of change detector and the digital amps use an absolute detector. This is NOT a digital versus analog problem. Tube amps will just lose power gradually and get distorted earlier because they do not have protection and mute circuits. If you continue to have any problems on good power, please feel free to PM me and I'll figure out what's going on. Don't worry about it.

For Mojo-Man, your symptoms are something that we have not seen. Is it possible that your bass has an active pickup with a battery that needs to be replaced? This is my first thought. Were you using any pedals or effects? There will be an increase in hiss with any boost in treble, this will be more noticeable with an active pickup since the active electronics in the bass do generate additional noise and define the noise floor. If you continue to have problems, please PM me and I'll get it figured out as well.

You guys have to realize we have shipped an awful lot of Shuttles, and for every "problem" you hear, there are hundreds of "non-problems". There was no "rushing" of production causing problems, just a whole lot of amps and a very popular product that is under the magnifying glass since it's so cutting edge. Be assured though, that any problem you may indeed encounter will be taken care of quickly. You have Roger's and my word.
 
#18
Thank you very much for your response here. I'm not hitting the panic button yet though I nearly ranout and bought a hartke 2500 for a cheap backup. I have another outside gig this weekend (groan) and will try it again. Plus I plan on having a bash at it today in the garage.

Just incase I have a powered Carvin mixer that I will bring to at least give me some power if it is the amp.

I do believe it was the power. My Shure PSM200 IEM system is racked with my Shuttle and I run the bass from the effects out into channel 1 and a dedicated monitor mix into channel 2. It too was warbling in my ears. Both are plugged into a simple power strip in my rack so there is a common point there.


Musicman7722
 
#19
musicman7722 said:
Thank you very much for your response here. I'm not hitting the panic button yet though I nearly ranout and bought a hartke 2500 for a cheap backup. I have another outside gig this weekend (groan) and will try it again. Plus I plan on having a bash at it today in the garage.

Just incase I have a powered Carvin mixer that I will bring to at least give me some power if it is the amp.

I do believe it was the power. My Shure PSM200 IEM system is racked with my Shuttle and I run the bass from the effects out into channel 1 and a dedicated monitor mix into channel 2. It too was warbling in my ears. Both are plugged into a simple power strip in my rack so there is a common point there.


Musicman7722
Click to expand...
Anything can be damaged under such conditions. I wouldn't use any of my gear in those circumstances, regardless of type. Either the people who are providing the power source (probably the same ones who are sponsoring you being there) fix the issue or they don't get a performance. Just kindly tell them what the problem is, and unplug all your stuff until it is fixed. They aren't going to pay for repairs when your stuff gets toasted.
 
#20
Eublet said:
Anything can be damaged under such conditions. I wouldn't use any of my gear in those circumstances, regardless of type. Either the people who are providing the power source (probably the same ones who are sponsoring you being there) fix the issue or they don't get a performance. Just kindly tell them what the problem is, and unplug all your stuff until it is fixed. They aren't going to pay for repairs when your stuff gets toasted.
Click to expand...

I understand and in principle you are right but in the real world of local music it won't fly. In my case it was a dual gig for a local Harley Dealership and a resteraunt. The harley dealership had the power and it was a dedicated run from the building via a conduit in the ground so not ext. cables. We weren't more than 30 feet form the outlets and we use heavy duty power cables for our ext. cables. jUst real bad power.

But all that asside, if we had said no go until they fix it we would have lost the gig, upset both the harley place and the rest. and did I mention the radio station that was co-sponsoring it as well.

It was a lose lose for me no matter what. MM
 

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