Shuttle 9.0?

[KJung]

I posted something like this when i first had my 6.0 new. It felt like the power was fading when the amp was pushed constanstly with a loud band against 2 Marshal-Stacks. I had the problem of the "clipping" light beeing constantly on in some songs. Te GB-people here told me not to worry about that and use the eq but this did not really solve it.

Now the point with the new digital poweramps as i understand it is that they do not clip like a traditional poweramp, but immediatly reduce the output power at one point.

Am i right when i think that PHAT will have something to do with the power fading when really hitting the 6.0 hard? Does PHAT affect this? If yes, it might be the solution for my issue with the 6.0 as i like the sound of it very much.

It should be running this cabinet. It uses the same eminence-neos as the NeoX-series.

Class D amps, IMO, don't behave differently than other solid state amps to my ear. My 500 watt micro amps perform almost identically to other 500 watt 'full size heads' like the Eden, SWR, Aguilar, Thunderfunk heads in that power range. If anything, I get more ooomph with the particular micro amp I primarily use prior to running out of steam than with any of those other 'full size heads'.

Also, the clip light on the Genz stuff continues to cause confusion among some GB users. It comes on at a strange point... when their 'power amp tube emulation limiter' starts to kick in, NOT like most clip lights which tell you that the amp is 'in trouble' and that you should take action (i.e., turn down a bit or lower the low end output a touch). So, Genz continually states that you can 'ignore' the clip light, and that even when it comes one, it really doesn't tell you if the amp has reached its limit yet, just that the 'tube emulation limiter' is kicking in.

That being said, I don't hear the 6.0 as a particularly strong or loud 600 watts, and it would not surprise me if you eventually run out of steam with that large cab at loud volumes, especially if you boost the bass a little bit. I find the 6.0 at the lower end of volume of the 500 or so watt micro amps if you set the EQ to get a full low end.

The 9.0 should solve your problem, if you like the inherent tone of the 6 but just want more juice.

 

[KJung]

I believe the 6.0 is 300 watts @ 8 ohms. The 9.0 is 500 watts @ 8 ohms. The ShuttleMAX12 is 375 watts @ 8 ohms.

The Shuttle 6 and the Max 6 and the Max 12 all put out the same power into a single 8ohm cab (375 watts).

The 300 watts of the Shuttle 6 versus the 375 watts that you are quoting for the Max 12 results when you run two 8ohm cabs. The Shuttle 6 and Max 6 would run at 4ohms, putting 300 watts into each of the 8ohm boxes. The Max 12 would be running each side at the 375 watts at 8ohms, hence the higher total wattage of the Max 12 into two 8ohm cabs versus the '6' series amps dividing their 600 watt 4ohm output into 2 8ohm cabs

 

[cellkirk74]

well, it feels like i get more oomph and overall punch out of the peavey pro bass 500 you can see in the picture than out of the shuttle. no matter if i use the 4x12 (8 Ohms) or the cabinet on the right side of this picture:

That is a 15/2x19/6 Neo- Customthing that runs on 4 Ohms. The peavey delivers 200 Watts @ 8 Ohms and 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

 

[KJung]

well, it feels like i get more oomph and overall punch out of the peavey pro bass 500 you can see in the picture than out of the shuttle. no matter if i use the 4x12 (8 Ohms) or the cabinet on the right side of this picture:
That is a 15/2x19/6 Neo- Customthing that runs on 4 Ohms. The peavey delivers 200 Watts @ 8 Ohms and 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

That could very well be true, but again, I would not attribute it to the class of amp, and I also wouldn't use the Shuttle 6 as completely representative of the category. Every amp has a different inherent voicing, and published power specs are often not completely representative of the actual performance of an amp.

 

[hasbeen]

well, it feels like i get more oomph and overall punch out of the peavey pro bass 500 you can see in the picture than out of the shuttle. no matter if i use the 4x12 (8 Ohms) or the cabinet on the right side of this picture:

That is a 15/2x19/6 Neo- Customthing that runs on 4 Ohms. The peavey delivers 200 Watts @ 8 Ohms and 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

hmm...you say it was "fading"....emphasis on "ing". That makes me think there was something else amiss with the head.

I can't remember what your eq settings were, although I know we walked through it at the time.

 

[svtb15]

A "fading" Issue.. mmmm. have you cleaned the rear Effects Send and Return jacks..
With the amp OFF, Run your 1/4 jack in and out of the EFFECTS SEND and RETURN jacks a dozen or so times. Sometimes corrosion may build up on them causing a the amp to do as you described.. "fading"
The Effects SEND RETURN is in the signal path between the preamp section and the Poweramp section IIRC and if corrosion builds up you get a wonky or weak break in the circuit.

Corrosion could be from weather conditions, going from hot to cold or cold to hot i should say..

Im not saying that is the your problem but if you have not tried the JACK cleaning, then try that to see if it helps.. Sometime you may have to pop the top of the amp and use a good tuner cleaner on those connections...

Do that with the amp unplugged!

well, it feels like i get more oomph and overall punch out of the peavey pro bass 500 you can see in the picture than out of the shuttle. no matter if i use the 4x12 (8 Ohms) or the cabinet on the right side of this picture:

That is a 15/2x19/6 Neo- Customthing that runs on 4 Ohms. The peavey delivers 200 Watts @ 8 Ohms and 350 Watts @ 4 Ohms.

 

[agedhorse]

I had the problem of the "clipping" light beeing constantly on in some songs. Te GB-people here told me not to worry about that and use the eq but this did not really solve it.

The LED indicates LIMITING, not clipping. I have discussed this several times here, and it's also discussed in the manual. The LED indicates the threshold of tube output emulation limiting and for ~6dB into limiting (the actual limit point is between 1 and 2 dB before amp clipping, with between 4 and 5dB of limiting compliance) the limiter modifies the dynamic range and harmonic content of 5-6dB into 1-2dB, THEN, the amp will clip. The LED is really a 2 purpose function, to give the user an idea of WHERE IN THE OPERATING RANGE they are operating.

Now the point with the new digital poweramps as i understand it is that they do not clip like a traditional poweramp, but immediatly reduce the output power at one point.

This is not an accurate satatement. It's based on both urban myth and some poorly executed examples of power amps in general. It's not a "digital power amp" problem as there are some glaring examples of this in the class AB analog world. If you need more power, then you need more power.

Am i right when i think that PHAT will have something to do with the power fading when really hitting the 6.0 hard? Does PHAT affect this? If yes, it might be the solution for my issue with the 6.0 as i like the sound of it very much.

PHAT has nothing to do with what you describe. Maybe it's just as simple as you needed a 900 watt amp and just ran out of power with a 600 watt amp?

 

[hasbeen]

Maybe it's just as simple as you needed a 900 watt amp and just ran out of power with a 600 watt amp?

I don't think so Andy.....he says his 500 Peavey is getting the job done.

 

[agedhorse]

I don't think so Andy.....he says his 500 Peavey is getting the job done.

Could also be that the voicing of the Peavey fits his particular playing style better and that he doesn't feel the need to get louder and louder in his quest to get there? Could also be that there is something with the cabinet's true impedance curve that causes it to work better with one particular amp than another too. A large subnominal reactive impedance dip could cause a difference in feel for instance. Every design will handle different (real) loads (outside of the rated load range) differently, some better and some worse.

Could have just been a defective amp too.

Just a hunch that it may be more complicated than it appears on the surface.

 

[hasbeen]

Could also be that the voicing of the Peavey fits his particular playing style better and that he doesn't feel the need to get louder and louder in his quest to get there? Could also be that there is something with the cabinet's true impedance curve that causes it to work better with one particular amp than another too. A large subnominal reactive impedance dip could cause a difference in feel for instance. Every design will handle different (real) loads (outside of the rated load range) differently, some better and some worse.

Could have just been a defective amp too.

Just a hunch that it may be more complicated than it appears on the surface.

effects loop. I'd bet a Chinese lunch.

 

[svtb15]

Thats what my money is on.. I gave a brief quik fix above..
But Im sure Andy would have a better idea if that were possible or not..

effects loop. I'd bet a Chinese lunch.

 

[banditcosmo]

hasbeen,

Any idea when Musician's Friend will have these for sale ? I want to purchase from them so I can do the financing (12 month no payment no interest)

 

[hasbeen]

hasbeen,

Any idea when Musician's Friend will have these for sale ? I want to purchase from them so I can do the financing (12 month no payment no interest)

we've already shipped to them. I don't know however, when they'll have them on their site.

 

[agedhorse]

effects loop. I'd bet a Chinese lunch.

Certainly possible.

 

[Musicman20]

Hey Genz

When are you starting to ship to the UK?!! I want one!

 

[Brandt@TPB]

Hi Guys,

We are taking pre orders and I have a feeling that we will sellout fast! Call me to get in line today! (866) 751-3220

 

[Red Planet]

It actually sounds like maybe you hit the limit of what the cab can put out.
A 210 can only go so loud even with 100 watts behind it. Sure it may be cleaner and be able to control the speaker better, but a 210 is just a 210.
Add a 112 or another 210 and I think you'll have pleasing results.

Or buy the 9.0

Not at all. Perhaps you missed when I talked about running my cab with one side of a PLX2 1804. At 600 watts into 8 ohms. The QSC sounds like twice as much as the MarkBass 500 watt amp through two 8 ohm cabs.

It's really not so much a loudness factor as it is a rigid hammer kick you in the stomach punch that you feel not hear.


Also I have another NEO Golight Cab. That is not the issue. What I want is 500 watts from the LMIII into a 2x10 or of coarse like you said the 9.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tallboybass]

Perhaps you missed when I talked about running my cab with one side of a PLX2 1804. At 600 watts into 8 ohms. The QSC sounds like twice as much as the MarkBass 500 watt amp through two 8 ohm cabs.

It's really not so much a loudness factor as it is a rigid hammer kick you in the stomach punch that you feel not hear.

That was my "work-around" for the 6.0 not quite having enough juice too. If the new 9.0 can sound like half an 1804, I'm IN!!!

 

[savinggrace]

GB does it again... They seem to be unstoppable. Innovative items, excellent quality, and top of the line customer service.

They deserve every bit of hype and success they get.

Some version of the Shuttle or Shuttle Max is definitely my next amp. It is getting hard to choose which one though...

 

[hasbeen]

Hey Genz

When are you starting to ship to the UK?!! I want one!

as soon as they order.