Skjold speaker cabinets ROCK!!

[Blues Cat]

IMHO, it's a cardinal sin to send a "wet" signal to FOH, and this is a perfect example why. This will never happen to me. My stage rig is STRICTLY for stage monitoring, and THAT'S ALL. I want to be able to control my stage sound w'out worrying about screwing up the production folks (I'm dead set against that). YMMV, IMHO.

There was no direct box, which I prefer. It's not a problem for a flat EQ setting indoors. I still prefer a direct box.

 

[Fretless5verfan]

If the sound is omni directional why is it that i always hear more bass if i'm standing behind a rear ported cab? I'm looking for an explanation, not trying to argue

 

[Blues Cat]

"A theory? One of those logical ones that says because air is blowing backwards, so too must the sound be blowing backwards only... Hmmm..."

I'm saying the lows blow backwards & the thinness blows forward. Try this. It's very obvious.



"Great test. I'm sure it would have made a whole lot of difference if you plugged the rear port and cut an identically sized port in the front baffle."


The Ampeg cab is to small to put a rear port in front, otherwise it would be an excellent way to test this theory.
I've experienced these problems not only on a rear ported 15" but on a rear ported 410 Goliath II too.

 

[j-raj]

I know, I know... I was just joking...

Really , and I thought they were being built by Madison.. and soon to be released the Skjold Hydra!!

LOL... nice .

 

[Vic]

They're not dependent on any kind of reflection - the ports are tiny, the sound wave is huge, therefore the sound is omnidirectional.

Sorry, but regardless of the length of the wave, if you want to hear it, it has to be coming your way, unless you're saying it really doesn't matter which direction the woofers are pointed, you'll hear them exactly the same way, at the same intensity (true omnidirectionality), which I totally don't buy.

 

[Vic]

There was no direct box...

Wow. Never run into this before. All the production folks I've ever worked with have boxes of these things for keyboard players, guitar players, etc...

 

[Biker4Him]

I'm with you Vic.. I prefer to send a "dry" signal to the board. and.. just in case.. I usually bring along my own direct box.
However; there are a couple of places we play where the soundguy is nothing more than a kid that can't hear, and hasn't a clue... So I usually send a wet signal, and take my wireless unit.. so I can get out and hear what the crowd hears, and make any adjustments I need to.

 

[Passinwind]

I'm not sure of the tuning of those Bag Ends but I can't see it being high enough to cause directional port output. I think what you're seeing more of is a shortage of low bass, some mid-bass hump, and therefore a boom when the cab is in a corner and those inevitably boomy mid-bass frequencies are accentuated. But as always Ken, you make the point with clarity and open-mindedness.

It's not a question of the tuning frequency, IMHO. If you look in the back of a BE cab you can see the speaker cone (at least on the ones I've looked at). There's a direct path for mids to come out of the port, and nothing to kill them. That's true of many other back-ported cabs I've seen as well.

 

[Blues Cat]

Wow. Never run into this before. All the production folks I've ever worked with have boxes of these things for keyboard players, guitar players, etc...

Correct they were all being used for the guitar & keyboards.

And there's no pre send, just post. It's one of those ampeg B115 w/tuner & mid shift.

 

[Stubb]

If the sound is omni directional why is it that i always hear more bass if i'm standing behind a rear ported cab? I'm looking for an explanation, not trying to argue

Because you're not hearing the mids and highs, which are eminating from the speaker cones.

 

[Fretless5verfan]

Because you're not hearing the mids and highs, which are eminating from the speaker cones.

Interesting, so then the lows are comming from the port and the sound is NOT omni-directional or else i'd hear that depth in front of the cab as well then along with the mids and highs right? Like i do with front ported cabs?

 

[Vic]

Correct they were all being used for the guitar & keyboards.

And there's no pre send, just post. It's one of those ampeg B115 w/tuner & mid shift.

I hear what you're saying. Of course there'll sometimes be the odd special case, in which you'd have to make exceptions, but those should be VERY rare. I'm talking about the other 99% of the time (tho I did say "never" 'cause it's never happended to me... but maybe I've just been lucky and should start carrying my own DI around).

On my current head, TFB, I have a dedicated dry out tho, so at least I'm surely covered with that one.

 

[Vic]

Ok, here's my take on the whole omni thing, 'cause I do think there's something to it, I just don't think it's as pure and black/white as it seem to me is being represented here.

At low frequencies, the waves are so big that they create a general varying pressure condition in their proximity. sorta like if you had a pulsating sphere... since the air is connected to adjacent air in 360 degrees, it goes in all directions.

However...

IMHO, when you're dealing with bass cabs, I DO think there's a definite directional ELEMENT to it, especially in close proximity because it's a port facing a particular direction, so at least initially, the pressure variance also has a fairly directional component.

I'd go as far as to say outside a certain radius, yeah, probably sounds like it's coming from everywhere if you have enough power behind it. However, IMHO, 1.) On any stage of any size I've seen, you don't get out of that radius, and 2.) as much as we'd like to think otherwise, I don't think we're driving enough power to create a rough equivalent of a small local weather condition.

If I'm way off, I welcome correction, but I will say this...

I have A/B'd front and rear ported cabs on flatbed outdoor gigs, that were reasonably comparable in design, and I definitely heard the front ported model as creating a deeper sound on stage, so I'm a believer regardless of conjecture and theory (including mine).

I will say one other thing, because low frequencies carry so far, in most rooms I've ever been in (in other words, all indoor gigs IMHO), front/rear ported makes little/no diff.

 

[Fretless5verfan]

I will say one other thing, because low frequencies carry so far, in most rooms I've ever been in (in other words, all indoor gigs IMHO), front/rear ported makes little/no diff.

They do if you have to play with your back to a wall

 

[Vic]

I will say one other thing, because low frequencies carry so far, in most rooms I've ever been in (in other words, all indoor gigs IMHO), front/rear ported makes little/no diff.

They do if you have to play with your back to a wall

How's that? I'd imagine that'd be the perfect case for front/rear to sound pretty much the same ("little/no diff")!

 

[Fretless5verfan]

How's that? I'd imagine that'd be the perfect case for front/rear to sound pretty much the same!

Here's the situation, drummer to the right and slightly behind me, cab behind me and and about even with the drummer horizontally. Played this place with a Rear-Ported 15, and again recently Front Ported-12.

With the rear ported cab, the drummer was complaining like a madman about how much bass she(!) was getting plastered with, while to me it sounded very even...until i backed up and went on the other side of the cab, then BLAM death by 40hz. With the front ported cab, it sounded fine to both of us with even MORE depth to it and there was no supper bassy area.

My point is that IME with a rear ported cab near a wall, if you're around that area between the wall and the port, you get murdered with bass and don't get anything else. If you have a bandmate near that area, lookout.

When using that ported 15, the guitarist backed up at one point while rocking out then suddenly jumped forward and looked at me like i had killed his cat. He too experienced the bass hell, so it wasn't just the two of us.

And for the argument of "It's just the room acoustics" this happens in my practice area and two other places i've used it near a wall.

IME, IMHO, YMMV, ASFAIK, FYI, FBI, CIA, and all that good stuff of course

 

[Vic]

Here's the situation, drummer to the right and slightly behind me, cab behind me and and about even with the drummer horizontally. Played this place with a Rear-Ported 15, and again recently Front Ported-12.

Ok, yeah, I totally hear you on that one!

Agreed!

Typically, the back of my cab is even or behind the back of the drummer, or I'm aimed in towards center stage a little (aiming the back of my cab "away"), so I don't think I'd ever have that issue, but I played a fairly few gigs with the rear ported stuff, so I really can't tout a bunch of examples.

My point is that IME with a rear ported cab near a wall, if you're around that area between the wall and the port, you get murdered with bass and don't get anything else. If you have a bandmate near that area, lookout.

Yeah, I can totally see this.

Good points, dude. I'm just a HUGE fan of front ports. It's really that simple. I just honestly believe they work better for most, if not all, cases. IMHO, YMMV, ABC, DEF, ETC...

 

[Fretless5verfan]

Typically, the back of my cab is even or behind the back of the drummer, or I'm aimed in towards center stage a little (aiming the back of my cab "away")

I Definately should've tried that lol.

Good points, dude. I'm just a HUGE fan of front ports. It's really that simple. I just honestly believe they work better for most, if not all, cases. IMHO, YMMV, ABC, DEF, ETC...

No argument here