Slash chords – optional or not?

[MDBass]

I get it. If you’re in C and come across C/E to F....the first chord is still a C chord of which the root is C so long as the C/E is meant to function as a I chord. Further down in the chart is C to F/D to C/E etc.....limited context but let’s say the F/D is functioning as a ii chord. Is the root still F?
Generally I prefer to think of and name chords based on the note I’m supposed to play. Often it gives me more insight the chord’s function. There’s nothing wrong in my mind with calling a chord “C with an E in the bass”, it makes sense until it doesn’t.
Not trying to start Theory War 2019...just stating what works well in my tiny head. I realize I’m in the minority here.
Now go open some presents!!

All good man! Yep, the root of F/D is still F, but if you don’t play D the arrangement will miss the harmonic tension that the composer/arranger intended.

Funny you mention that particular chord: the band I play with just finished pre-production for the new album, and when finalizing th bass line for one song I altered the harmony of an F chord for one of the two bars it played with a D in the bass.

The producer and artist both freaked out: suddenly the chorus had much more movement and truly felt finished.

That’s the beauty of reharmonization

 

[lowphatbass]

So if that F/D is described as a dmin7 what’s the root?

 

[zZippy]

With classic music like old hymns, they were quite often written for a 4 part choir.

Interesting! Your definitely right on this song... speaking as a bass singer as well.

 

[The Bass Clef]

So if that F/D is described as a dmin7 what’s the root?

I’m going to do my best to answer this, but just know that it’s difficult because your example is kind of a trick question (even though I realize you didn’t necessarily mean it to be). That’s because there’s no real good reason to write it as an F/D - The notes of that chord are D F A C which defines it as a Dmin7, so it would pretty much always be written as Dmin7 - and never as an F/D (at least not in a professional published chart)... Unless the composer specifically doesn’t want the guitars or piano to play a D (and wants them to just play a normal F major in root position), and the comoser ONLY wants the bass to play a D. However... the reason that isn’t something we generally see/hear is because the listener isn’t going to hear a real difference in the overall mix of the band. In other words, if the bass is playing a D, then the listener is still going to hear the chord as a Dmin7 regardless of whether the guitars/piano are playing an Fmajor or a Dmin7. That’s because a big fat D note ringing out in the bass will overpower the sound of the music/chord, and render a D in the guitars or piano not really noticeable whether they are playing it or not (because the D in the guitars/piano would just be a repeated note at that point, and it wouldn’t be changing the harmony).

However, that’s different from an inversion. An F/D (which basically doesn’t exist because there’s already a more correct name for those collection of notes... i.e. a Dmin7) is NOT an inversion of an F chord (because D is not a chord tone of F major). An inversion of an F chord would be F/A or F/C (because A and C are chord tones of F major).

I hope this makes sense. To most musicians who have a good understanding of functional harmony and theory, if they saw an F/D in a chord chart, it would immediately raise an eyebrow, because they would “see” a D with 3 stacked thirds above it and think “why didn’t they just write this as a d chord??” (specifically a Dmin7).

 

[lowphatbass]

I’m going to do my best to answer this, but just know that it’s difficult because your example is kind of a trick question (even though I realize you didn’t necessarily mean it to be).

It was a rhetorical question in my mind.

 

[buldog5151bass]

So if that F/D is described as a dmin7 what’s the root?

D. The root is the root is the root is the root. Which is the root. Chord can be substituted, such as Dm7 for F as the 4 chord in a major scale (trying to keep it simple theory-wise), as is still resolves to the fifth. One is an F chord, which is the 4th, and the other the 2nd. Substitute chords are dictated by the melody, as well as the harmonic tension the composer want to introduce.

You can play a progression. C - Am - F - G - C. You can play is Cmaj7 - Am7/C - Dm/F- C/G G7 - C. You can speak with a jazz sax player, and start adding 9th and other notes til the tonic/root is almost forgotten. It can sound very cool, or it can sound stupid. But if you are playing the composition, you don't get to ignore what is written if you want to play the composition as written.

 

[LBS-bass]

I’m going to do my best to answer this, but just know that it’s difficult because your example is kind of a trick question (even though I realize you didn’t necessarily mean it to be). That’s because there’s no real good reason to write it as an F/D - The notes of that chord are D F A C which defines it as a Dmin7, so it would pretty much always be written as Dmin7 - and never as an F/D (at least not in a professional published chart)... Unless the composer specifically doesn’t want the guitars or piano to play a D (and wants them to just play a normal F major in root position), and the comoser ONLY wants the bass to play a D. However... the reason that isn’t something we generally see/hear is because the listener isn’t going to hear a real difference in the overall mix of the band. In other words, if the bass is playing a D, then the listener is still going to hear the chord as a Dmin7 regardless of whether the guitars/piano are playing an Fmajor or a Dmin7. That’s because a big fat D note ringing out in the bass will overpower the sound of the music/chord, and render a D in the guitars or piano not really noticeable whether they are playing it or not (because the D in the guitars/piano would just be a repeated note at that point, and it wouldn’t be changing the harmony).

However, that’s different from an inversion. An F/D (which basically doesn’t exist because there’s already a more correct name for those collection of notes... i.e. a Dmin7) is NOT an inversion of an F chord (because D is not a chord tone of F major). An inversion of an F chord would be F/A or F/C (because A and C are chord tones of F major).

I hope this makes sense. To most musicians who have a good understanding of functional harmony and theory, if they saw an F/D in a chord chart, it would immediately raise an eyebrow, because they would “see” a D with 3 stacked thirds above it and think “why didn’t they just write this as a d chord??” (specifically a Dmin7).

Thanks for this. I wanted to address this yesterday but got a little tired, because it's really a different can of worms altogether and therefore a bit confusing. It is possible for the bassist to change a chord by playing a note on the bass that the chording instruments are not playing. It's up to the composer or arranger to decide if all the instruments need to play the 7 (or whatever the added note is). If I saw that F/D combination I'd assume that were the case, for whatever reason.

 

[MDBass]

So if that F/D is described as a dmin7 what’s the root?

I’m going to do my best to answer this, but just know that it’s difficult because your example is kind of a trick question (even though I realize you didn’t necessarily mean it to be). That’s because there’s no real good reason to write it as an F/D - The notes of that chord are D F A C which defines it as a Dmin7, so it would pretty much always be written as Dmin7 - and never as an F/D (at least not in a professional published chart)... Unless the composer specifically doesn’t want the guitars or piano to play a D (and wants them to just play a normal F major in root position), and the comoser ONLY wants the bass to play a D. However... the reason that isn’t something we generally see/hear is because the listener isn’t going to hear a real difference in the overall mix of the band. In other words, if the bass is playing a D, then the listener is still going to hear the chord as a Dmin7 regardless of whether the guitars/piano are playing an Fmajor or a Dmin7. That’s because a big fat D note ringing out in the bass will overpower the sound of the music/chord, and render a D in the guitars or piano not really noticeable whether they are playing it or not (because the D in the guitars/piano would just be a repeated note at that point, and it wouldn’t be changing the harmony).

However, that’s different from an inversion. An F/D (which basically doesn’t exist because there’s already a more correct name for those collection of notes... i.e. a Dmin7) is NOT an inversion of an F chord (because D is not a chord tone of F major). An inversion of an F chord would be F/A or F/C (because A and C are chord tones of F major).

I hope this makes sense. To most musicians who have a good understanding of functional harmony and theory, if they saw an F/D in a chord chart, it would immediately raise an eyebrow, because they would “see” a D with 3 stacked thirds above it and think “why didn’t they just write this as a d chord??” (specifically a Dmin7).

He is absolutely right, F/D is indeed a Dmin7 chord and D is the actual root: I realized after posting I hadn’t looked at that harmonic relationship closely enough, but it was Christmas Eve, so fortunately someone else corrected me in the meantime

“A chord isn’t a chord until the bass player decides what note to play.”

Merry Christmas!

 

[JimmyM]

He is absolutely right, F/D is indeed a Dmin7 chord and D is the actual root: I realized after posting I hadn’t looked at that harmonic relationship closely enough, but it was Christmas Eve, so fortunately someone else corrected me in the meantime

“A chord isn’t a chord until the bass player decides what note to play.”

Merry Christmas!

If you wrote F/D, I'd know what you meant

However, you could also call it F6/D and have the guitar and/or keys add the D in. There's a nice Christmas grenade for everyone!

 

[StatesideRambler]

If any of you have The Real Book or iReal Pro, look at Blue Skies or any number of others. You see inversions noted this way [chord name / lowest note]. In Blue Skies there’s a descending phrase
A- A-M7/G# A-7/G A-6/F#
where you may notice that the “slash” suffix is the note that defines the chord and is the bass line: R (actually, octave) to 7 to b7 to 6. It isn’t standard notation (A.K.A. fly droppings), it’s a shorthand of sorts developed by jazz players years ago and adopted by the rest of us for situations where the exact notation and arrangement isn’t dictated.

The “slash” suffix is not necessarily the bass player’s part. It’s up to the arranger or musical director to make that call, or if you’re not in a rehearsed situation, you to play what makes the whole thing sound good.

 

[LBS-bass]

If any of you have The Real Book or iReal Pro, look at Blue Skies or any number of others. You see inversions noted this way [chord name / lowest note]. In Blue Skies there’s a descending phrase
A- A-M7/G# A-7/G A-6/F#
where you may notice that the “slash” suffix is the note that defines the chord and is the bass line: R (actually, octave) to 7 to b7 to 6. It isn’t standard notation (A.K.A. fly droppings), it’s a shorthand of sorts developed by jazz players years ago and adopted by the rest of us for situations where the exact notation and arrangement isn’t dictated.

Right, and this is one of the most common situations in which you'll see these slashes, which may or may not include notes that the chording instruments are playing: Descending, ascending and otherwise walking lines.

 

[tradernick]

Yeah, I don't have anything against heuristics if they make sense, but treating the G with a B bass note as a "B chord" means you are introducing a D# as the relative major third of the "new" chord - in essence, turning the real G chord into a G augmented. I suppose in some contexts that would sound good. *lol*

I'm all for heuristics too. I just hope that in this case the member can be shown that they can produce badly sub-optimal results. I think he is just thinking that you can analyze from the bottom up and name chords by the bottom note of a voicing, as MDBass points out

In a slash chord, the bass is no longer playing the root

Stack in thirds to get the right answer.

I see further posts on this would be redundant.

 

[tradernick]

Generally I prefer to think of and name chords based on the note I’m supposed to play. Often it gives me more insight the chord’s function.

Okay, one more post.

Don't mean to go on and on but your use of the word 'function' has triggered the latent theory nerd in me

The whole point is that analyzing chords by assuming the bottom note of the voicing is the root will lead you to incorrect conclusions about the very thing you're trying to gain insight about - the function of a chord. Just in case you weren't aware (I don't assume you don't know this) the word 'function' has a very specific meaning in the branch of music theory known as Harmony with a capital 'H'.

You have lots of good info here. Good luck in your quest.

 

[juggahnaught]

Yikes, eight pages... I'm switching from chord charts to standard notation.

@Whousedtoplay Apologies if I missed the reference, but what tool/site are you using to generate your chord information? That looks very useful.

 

[SteveCS]

Yikes, eight pages... I'm switching from chord charts to standard notation.

...

Good plan!

 

[Sequential]

Good plan!

Until somebody starts a thread arguing against long-standing academic rules and professional standards about standard notation!

 

[SteveCS]

Until somebody starts a thread arguing against long-standing academic rules and professional standards about standard notation!

For sure, but it won't be me...

 

[Russell L]

whatever chord / bass plays this note

 

[tradernick]

Excellent
It means, that after 9 pages of the slash chord "blah-blah-blah", one could easily explain what note to play in the bass when the following chord progression is shown

I'm not sure if the 'excellent' at the top of this post is meant as sarcasm, but if it is, you've missed the point. I didn't say 'stack in thirds in real time when sight-reading charts with no chord notation'. That would obviously be absurd in the somewhat histrionic example you gave.

I simply meant that if you're analyzing music and want to know what the root of a chord is, stack the notes in thirds.

EDIT: I just re-read your post and I still don't get how it relates to the one I made which you quoted. You highlightered the E in each symbol. Do you mean just look at the instructions in the chord symbol and play accordingly?

 

[Russell L]

Mercy me. The main thing is: the note after the slash is the lowest note to be played, no matter what the chord before the slash is. It usually means an inverted chord.