Some Shade from Ron Carter

[Paul New]

Yes, he has intonation problems, but his accomplishments are undeniable. And like many very good musicians, he's a good musician and also has opinions. The thing is, he is both right and wrong. Yes, it's difficult to walk through 100 choruses of F blues and make each chorus different and interesting. He's right about that. Where he's wrong is when he says that jazz bassists are expected to do that. Even in jazz, the only person listening to the bass line closely enough to know the difference is another bass player. I'm a saxophonist too, and I can tell you, the soloist thinks of the rhythm section as pretty much a breathing play-along track. All they care about is a line with the preferred resolution to tension ratio, and good time and sound.

 

[StatesideRambler]

LOL It seems he doesn't listen to much electric bass at all. ...and talking smack about repetitive lines...
*** is a walking bass line?.... repetitive quarter notes.
Not very creative in the rhythm dept. is it? It must be nice to hardly ever have to think of anything besides thumping out quarter notes.
What a stupid perspective.

If one hears only the quarter notes in the bass line one is either not listening carefully or one is listening to a novice bassist. In aviation there's a saying, "Some pilots have 1000 hours of experience and other pilots have 1 hour of experience 1000 times. You know which one I'd rather fly with." A bassist who hammers out nothing but quarter notes is analogous to the latter pilot.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Shade aside, I looked at the original post, and I have to say Mr. Carter looks marvelous for a man who was 81 at the time of the picture. Whatever his opinion about bass guitars, he has made some great life choices considering that so many otherwise brilliant people from his generation destroyed themselves through drugs.

I am happy he is still among us because he is a great link to our past.

 

[Schlyder]

I prefer Paul Chambers, and a lot of other cats over Ron Carter for my DB listening.

 

[Schlyder]

If one hears only the quarter notes in the bass line one is either not listening carefully or one is listening to a novice bassist. In aviation there's a saying, "Some pilots have 1000 hours of experience and other pilots have 1 hour of experience 1000 times. You know which one I'd rather fly with." A bassist who hammers out nothing but quarter notes is analogous to the latter pilot.

I see the sarcasm went right over your head.

 

[jim nolte]

Both approaches are exerting control, just to different ends. I tend to be more the "planting seeds" type myself. Even with my own invented bass lines, I think I'd be disappointed with myself if I played them the same way every time.

I think Ron just needed to listen to more / different electric bassists. I might recommend Jack Casady and Jack Bruce. And maybe that Jack-Oh guy.

Yeah,Jack Casady was the first bassist I thought about,just read an interview with him yesterday in which he said all his early bass influences were upright jazz players.

 

[StatesideRambler]

I see the sarcasm went right over your head.

It's a hazard of communicating via text. Much is lost.

 

[azureblue]

I think Ron played bass on the Rascals' "People Got to be Free". A nice bass part that echos JJ

 

[azureblue]

I think he totally misunderstands. A good repetitive bassline can be hypnotic and enjoyable to play, but it takes an appreciation for the style of music rather than determination and discipline. The player focuses holistically on all aspects of the groove and not just the bass line. You sort of become one with the music.

I do think it would take determination and discipline for Ron Carter to play a repetitive pop bass line, because it's not his bag and I think he would find it incredibly boring. It's unfortunate that he seems bitter and a bit judgmental about it.

True - "Active" bass lines are kind of like a conga player, vs a 2/4 drummer. Instead of the song being based upon a simple line, the line is it's own thing, a statement that more or less can stand on it's own. That is as opposed to a bass part that is there to support the rest of the ensemble.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

Huh. Interesting. I'll be the devil's advocate.

I don't see him putting down anybody or saying playing jazz/upright is harder or than funk/pop/electric. It's just a different skill set. And ASSuming I'm correct, I agree with him.

 

[MtManiac]

I don't take this as shade, at all, he's right - playing a very repetitive bassline through an entire song without variation and locked entirely in with the drums *is* a hard effing skill to master.

I just think he's inaccurate, as very few bass guitar players that I listen to do that regularly, and nobody that I know of does it in every damned song. There's always story telling.

 

[Scottgun]

The difference between their job and our job, as the upright player, is that our lines must contain something fresh and new every chorus. I resent that pressure, but i do it because it's part of the job.

My job is to find the germ of an idea in the first chorus, and have the memory to be able to transfer and translate this germ to somewhere else in the next chorus or somewhere else in the next tune, or somewhere else in the next night.

Our job is to plant a seed to make it grow

Isn't this a needlessly elaborate way of saying he is expected to improvise his bass lines?

 

[mdogs]

I'm a saxophonist too, and I can tell you, the soloist thinks of the rhythm section as pretty much a breathing play-along track. All they care about is a line with the preferred resolution to tension ratio, and good time and sound.

Very true, someone needs to tell Jaco not to walk all over the soloist!

 

[JW56789]

Personally, I am not qualified to debate Ron Carter by any means, and to me, even if I might disagree with some of what he said, he's one of the guys that 'wrote the book' and I'd far rather learn from his experience and wisdom than try to debate him. For me, he's more that earned the right to express his opinions, and indeed, even in my limited experience, upright in his Jazz world is a far different place than where I've been.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

Very true, someone needs to tell Jaco not to walk all over the soloist!

I freakin love Jaco on that tune.

Different strokes!

 

[jerry]

I think Ron played bass on the Rascals' "People Got to be Free". A nice bass part that echos JJ

Chuck Rainey

 

[EarnestTBass]

I would never attempt to dispute Ron Carter.

But just a few days ago I was reading an analysis of an AC DC bass line by Cliff Williams. AC DC is an obvious choice if you're looking for repetitive riffs. The commentary presents another side- worth consideration.

"I would say one of the most challenging tasks as a bassplayer is to find diversity in restraint, to serve the song and still play interesting basslines. In fact it is much easier to play without boundaries..."

 

[DJ Bebop]

Very true, someone needs to tell Jaco not to walk all over the soloist!

I love those side fills, JBL I think...

 

[Passinwind]

I freakin love Jaco on that tune.

So did Joni, and she certainly would not have stood for it if she didn't.

 

[mdogs]

I freakin love Jaco on that tune.

Different strokes!

Oops, I guess I wasn't clear in my sarcasm. To me, this tune is the epitome of Jaco's greatness. Such a great song and he provides the perfect backdrop. There is no one, NO ONE, other than a jazz soloist like whichever Brecker brother this is, that would have ever even thought that Jaco was over playing during his solo. He must not have been too mad, I saw Jaco years later in 1984 with both Brecker brothers and it was pretty incredible.