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Some Shade from Ron Carter

#81
I attended a Ron Carter clinic many years ago. I play primarily 4 string electric bass and went to this clinic for entertainment and educational experience.

I left very disappointed and was really surprised at Ron Carters demeanor. I'm not a fan of his.

A few weeks later I attended a Rufus Reid . Michael Moore clinic that was over the top great. Two wonderful educators and musicians.
 
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#82
57pbass said:
I attended a Ron Carter clinic many years ago. I play primarily 4 string electric bass and went to this clinic for entertainment and educational experience.

I left very disappointed and was really surprised at Ron Carters demeanor. I'm not a fan of his.

A few weeks later I attended a Rufus Reid . Michael Moore clinic that was over the top great. Two wonderful educators and musicians.
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What did Ron Carter day or do that disagreed with you? Just curious.
 
#83
I think ron carter is just upset that his solo on "red clay" is known as one of the worst bass solos of all time, and he's trying to make himself feel better by putting funk players down. Also, ron carter sounds the same on every miles record he did with that quintet, so it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black....
 
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#85
I am not saying this is the case here. I don't know the man personally.

One who has a gift or a talent in one field doesn't always translate into all aspects of life.

I have meet stellar musicians who have little to no people skills nor are they
interested in developing them either but, they can play.
 
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#86
In a master class Ron Carter talked about playing electric bass and said that he put it aside because he felt that he wouldn't be able to give both instruments the dedication needed to play both at the level he demanded of himself. Fair enough by me. Those of you who opine that he's showing an unseemly amount of attitude obviously haven't read or heard the opinions of Miles Davis or Jon Hendricks or Charles Mingus or Albert King or Willie Dixon. Or Ed Van Halen.
 
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#87
sing-modulator said:
I think ron carter is just upset that his solo on "red clay" is known as one of the worst bass solos of all time, and he's trying to make himself feel better by putting funk players down. Also, ron carter sounds the same on every miles record he did with that quintet, so it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black....
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tenor.gif
 
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#89
StatesideRambler said:
In a master class Ron Carter talked about playing electric bass and said that he put it aside because he felt that he wouldn't be able to give both instruments the dedication needed to play both at the level he demanded of himself. Fair enough by me. Those of you who opine that he's showing an unseemly amount of attitude obviously haven't read or heard the opinions of Miles Davis or Jon Hendricks or Charles Mingus or Albert King or Willie Dixon. Or Ed Van Halen.
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I can respect him saying that he couldn't give what was needed to be great on both. That is why Pattitucci and Brian Bromberg make jaws drop.
 
#90
It's just the time Ron Carter came up in, Stanley didn't really start playing electric until the second or third RTF album, all his early stuff with CTI etc. was on upright. As years went by younger and younger cats were brought up to kill on both electric and upright, it's normal now to have monsters like McBride, Patitucci who do both, it wasn't always like that.
Just like Quincy Jones and other cats from a different era, I give Carter a pass, props and tons of respect for such a huge body of great work.
 
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#91
Lance Bunyon said:
I think he's both jealous and irritated. Jealous that he can't lay down a I VI II V Doo wop line over and over with no deviation, and irritated that he's expected to be the great Ron Carter over and over every night constantly reinventing basslines over hard bop changes.
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Listen to this Gil Scott Heron recording, with Ron Carter on electric bass, and tell us again how RC is "jealous" that he can't lay down a repetitive line over and over with no deviation.
Ron Carter has forgotten more about playing bass—upright and electric, in many genres—than 95% of TBer's ever knew.
 
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#92
Thinking about it, Carter has received a fair bit of shade himself from the older guard of jazz musicians (and younger revivalists) as one of the first generation of double bassists to fully embrace pickups and amplification as part of his sound. Wynton Marsalis would rant about the "bass direct" style of jazz recording, and Carter pretty much pioneered that.
And I'm not sure how disparaging the comments in the OP were intended to be. I enjoy Carter's electric bass playing, but he always brings in these little subtle rhythmic and phrasing variations through the tune that give it a looser, less forward feel than a straight funk bassist might bring. I feel like he might just be recognising that.
 
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#93
ok, finally was able to read the piece: i agree with RC if only because i play the EBG the same way he's playing DB --- whether jazz or funk (even rock) i'd rather play 'freshness' than be limited to a script someone else thinks is 'correct'. signature licks/grooves are a must, of course, but they're just a point of departure for me...and by not being chained to them = they can be dramatic (vs. obvious) when returning to them at the 'right time'. playing the same line for 3-5 minutes might be a test of endurance...but it's also the lowest bar.

here's a real test of endurance:


:D


ron carter is spot on. what some just called "passive-aggression" in his statement: i'd call diplomacy! :D

(if you feel offended by his POV you might consider upping your game!)
 
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#94
klyph said:
for some REAL fun, go read some Quincy Jones interviews. That guy is incredibly witty, cooler than any of us could hope to be, super knowledgeable, and TOTALLY NUTS.
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+1! :laugh::thumbsup:

QJ is one of my favorite curmudgeons. (Great musician too!) He's so over the top at times (and does it so well) that you can't help but read some of his interviews without smiling and shaking your head while mumbling OMG! a dozen or more times before you're finished. The type of person my grandmother used to refer to, in her clipped New England accent, as "a real pisser." :)
 
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#95
BassJuju said:
Serve the song and everything else will sort itself out.
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Bingo!

End of the day that's all that need be said.

How you go about it is your business. And in fairness, and with all due respect, Ron Carter certainly knows his business.

But sometimes he can come across as being a little sketchy about his understanding of somebody else's.

Either way, he makes several good points I can readily agree with even if I don't buy into everything he's saying.

One thing I've learned from playing music. There's rarely a statement you can make about music that doesn't immediately need to be qualified. And which, depending on the context, its exact opposite isn't equally true.

Zappa was right: "Shut up and play yer guitar." :laugh::thumbsup:
 
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#96
People who give a lot of interviews often contradict themselves or say some stupid stuff. Ron's no exception.

The bass player's job -- the musician's job -- is to serve the music, give the music what it calls for. If it's a bluegrass tune, the music calls for a certian type of approach. If it's a swing tune, it calls for a different approach. A one chord funk tune? A different approach. Ron seems to be saying that his is the right approach, regardless.

People who give a lot of interviews often contradict themselves or say some stupid stuff.
 
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#97
I remember reading an interview with him once and something struck me in what he said; I'm paraphrasing but it was like "I spent all day trying to find that one note that would stop the sax player from playing that lick" and I thought, why would you want to undermine the sax player? I don't know the man, I admire his work but he does come across as arrogant.
I don't think that electric players are repetitive, it depends on the genre of music they play. I don't know, maybe I'm misreading what he says but I don't agree with a lot of it.
 
#98
interp said:
Listen to this Gil Scott Heron recording, with Ron Carter on electric bass, and tell us again how RC is "jealous" that he can't lay down a repetitive line over and over with no deviation.
Ron Carter has forgotten more about playing bass—upright and electric, in many genres—than 95% of TBer's ever knew.
Click to expand...


Ron Carter is a great musician. That he can play electric well when he wants to is no surprise. I don't think he is jealous of other players, I think he resents bass guitar taking over territory that he would rather see covered by string bass.
 
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