Songs That Producers Totally Messed Up..

[Ross W. Lovell]

Strongly agree!!!!!!!!!!! I have ZZ's Six Pack Cd box set and the drums were re-recorded for all of the London Studio Albums and the drums just sound so bombastic!!!!!!!!

Eventually, I bought all of the original London albums on Lp and it is so nice to hear the original drums the way they are supposed to be.

If I remember correctly the drummer was interviewed saying he had rerecorded the acoustic drum parts with sampled ones. Did not seem smart to me?

 

[Rocker949]

I prefer producers that are more transparent in capturing the artist.

Unfortunately some producers imprint more of themselves on an artist than I like.

That being said, sometimes the paucity of material submitted along with how ambitious the artist is, can sometimes leave gaps that inevitably the producer instead of the artist fills.

All Things Must Pass, George Harrison is a perfect example. George was pleased with the album as was the public. Later releases, especially with Jeff Lynne producing, seemed to exhibit the same gaps which the producer filled in their signature manner. Again, Harrison was pleased. That is what leads me to believe George was a little lazy.

I always wished, someone would have said, "yeah you "used" to be a Beatle, how about working a little harder and finishing this stuff yourself". But, I'm guessing you would have to not be enamored by the man, to push that opinion.

I find myself wondering what exactly the producers do with Dylan as his elocution is much better on recordings yet many of his tours find me wondering what the hell is he playing, only to find out it's a well known tune.

With that being said, touring for fifty plus years, with his catalog, it would be impossible for me not to retool a tune here and there, which would no doubt drive the fans nuts, but at least make me not hate performing the tune, which would most likely be noticeable and a bigger detriment to the performance.

I'm finding your criticism of George Harrison much too harsh. For the record, he was definitely not lazy. He always had a work ethic which was instilled into him as a child. I'd say some of it was misdirected, however. He was usually busy at something even if whatever activity he was doing might not have had a lot of long term value. He was way too affected by the critics and allowed that negativity to sap his musical creativity, IMO. It was bad enough that the "Living in the Material World" album received way more negative reviews than it should have. Personally, I find it to be a masterpiece. But things only went from bad to worse. Because by the next year (1974) Harrison experienced the ill-fated North American tour and way more negative reviews for his "Dark Horse" album than anyone could have imagined. It wasn't until 1991 that George Harrison would even go on another tour and that's only after Eric Clapton literally forced him to.

The low point was in 1975 with the "Extra Texture (Read All About It)" album. A truly depressing album in more ways than one. One song is even about suicide. The next few albums were better, but things were still not going all that well. I'm quite a George Harrison fan and even I have to admit that the 1980 album "Somewhere in England" is really lacking. The next album (1982) "Gone Troppo" was done to fulfill a contractual obligation (although I like it quite a lot.) But after that George took a five year hiatus because he found the music industry so alienating.

Where I'll have to agree that the producer's influence was way too great was with the "Cloud Nine" album. I find the Jeff Lynne imprint to be way too obvious and I don't consider it one of George Harrison's best albums. The public, of course, and even the critics felt differently. It was quite a commercial success and the last studio album of George's lifetime. The posthumous "Brainwashed" album also had quite a Jeff Lynne influence but that was unavoidable. I probably like it better than "Cloud Nine." But it's the kind of album you have to listen to many times before you can get a feel for what it's really about.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

I'm finding your criticism of George Harrison much too harsh. For the record, he was definitely not lazy. He always had a work ethic which was instilled into him as a child. I'd say some of it was misdirected, however. He was usually busy at something even if whatever activity he was doing might not have had a lot of long term value. He was way too affected by the critics and allowed that negativity to sap his musical creativity, IMO. It was bad enough that the "Living in the Material World" album received way more negative reviews than it should have. Personally, I find it to be a masterpiece. But things only went from bad to worse. Because by the next year (1974) Harrison experienced the ill-fated North American tour and way more negative reviews for his "Dark Horse" album than anyone could have imagined. It wasn't until 1991 that George Harrison would even go on another tour and that's only after Eric Clapton literally forced him to.

The low point was in 1975 with the "Extra Texture (Read All About It)" album. A truly depressing album in more ways than one. One song is even about suicide. The next few albums were better, but things were still not going all that well. I'm quite a George Harrison fan and even I have to admit that the 1980 album "Somewhere in England" is really lacking. The next album (1982) "Gone Troppo" was done to fulfill a contractual obligation (although I like it quite a lot.) But after that George took a five year hiatus because he found the music industry so alienating.

Where I'll have to agree that the producer's influence was way too great was with the "Cloud Nine" album. I find the Jeff Lynne imprint to be way too obvious and I don't consider it one of George Harrison's best albums. The public, of course, and even the critics felt differently. It was quite a commercial success and the last studio album of George's lifetime. The posthumous "Brainwashed" album also had quite a Jeff Lynne influence but that was unavoidable. I probably like it better than "Cloud Nine." But it's the kind of album you have to listen to many times before you can get a feel for what it's really about.

I don't agree.

Producers fill out the canvas when the work is not finished. Clearly, if you removed Lynne's influence there would be an incompleted and sparse album.

Using your own argument, Harrison was taught and exhibited a formidable work ethic early on yet somehow being easily bored and/or disillusioned.....jettisoned the very same ethic.

What did you think of the Scorsese's movie?

 

[andruca]

As much as I'm one of the most hardcore Bad Religion fans I know I think their iconic song "Generator" has these totally out of place parts where the drums play some sorta' clumsy ska beat, completely unnecessary, gets the song completely "de-grooved" in an instant. They're after each "It's the generator..." closing vocal phrase at 0:50 and 1:53. Can't stand those absurd inserts, they really kill the song's great potential for "roundness" to me. This shows one of the most clear cons of self-production, any external producer would have got rid of that part.

 

[Rocker949]

I don't agree.

Producers fill out the canvas when the work is not finished. Clearly, if you removed Lynne's influence there would be an incompleted and sparse album.

Using your own argument, Harrison was taught and exhibited a formidable work ethic early on yet somehow being easily bored and/or disillusioned.....jettisoned the very same ethic.

What did you think of the Scorsese's movie?

I'm heavily involved in taking care of a sick person and can't respond as fully as I'd like. To do so, I'd have to wait quite a while. However, I think you are misjudging George Harrison quite a bit in many ways. Looking at his personal life in depth, I think he faced some obstacles that the average person might not face. This is in spite of living what many would consider a charmed life in many ways. I think you are inaccurately summing up George Harrison's personality by saying he was easily bored or disillusioned. I have my own theories on what I think happened, but I'll admit they're pretty subjective. There are several good books which do go into some factual details, although I think Dale Allison's book "The Love There That's Sleeping" is one of the best. At no time, however, did he jettison his work ethic. I will say this. In the mid-70s Harrison's life was shattered. He put himself back together, but when he did so things were never the same. That's why I much prefer his earlier work. Also, his songs with the Beatles are underrated, beginning with "Love You To" which is probably my favorite George Harrison song. My favorite solo album is definitely "Living in the Material World," although "All Things Must Pass" comes in a close second. The LITMW album is the one in which George is doing a lot of the stuff on the album himself. He didn't even use Eric Clapton for guitar on that one or any producer which had too much of an influence on what he was trying to accomplish.

I thought the Scorsese movie was okay, but there are several books on the topic which to me are just as valuable or even more valuable.

I would like to write a much more thorough post, but on top of everything else while I was in the middle of writing this post my computer went on the blink. I'm lucky to be able to respond at all.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

I'm heavily involved in taking care of a sick person and can't respond as fully as I'd like. To do so, I'd have to wait quite a while. However, I think you are misjudging George Harrison quite a bit in many ways. Looking at his personal life in depth, I think he faced some obstacles that the average person might not face. This is in spite of living what many would consider a charmed life in many ways. I think you are inaccurately summing up George Harrison's personality by saying he was easily bored or disillusioned. I have my own theories on what I think happened, but I'll admit they're pretty subjective. There are several good books which do go into some factual details, although I think Dale Allison's book "The Love There That's Sleeping" is one of the best. At no time, however, did he jettison his work ethic. I will say this. In the mid-70s Harrison's life was shattered. He put himself back together, but when he did so things were never the same. That's why I much prefer his earlier work. Also, his songs with the Beatles are underrated, beginning with "Love You To" which is probably my favorite George Harrison song. My favorite solo album is definitely "Living in the Material World," although "All Things Must Pass" comes in a close second. The LITMW album is the one in which George is doing a lot of the stuff on the album himself. He didn't even use Eric Clapton for guitar on that one or any producer which had too much of an influence on what he was trying to accomplish.

I thought the Scorsese movie was okay, but there are several books on the topic which to me are just as valuable or even more valuable.

I would like to write a much more thorough post, but on top of everything else while I was in the middle of writing this post my computer went on the blink. I'm lucky to be able to respond at all.

PM me. This isn't what the original thread is about.

My wife is a big fan, as am I. Bottom line he was human.

You might want to look up the definition of work ethic as once it's learned, you can't pick and choose when to apply.

Kudos to you if involved in a hospice situation.

 

[Rocker949]

PM me. This isn't what the original thread is about.

My wife is a big fan, as am I. Bottom line he was human.

You might want to look up the definition of work ethic as once it's learned, you can't pick and choose when to apply.

Kudos to you if involved in a hospice situation.

I'll get to a PM which I get a chance to have some free time and focus some more. My life is very stressful now, needless to say. However, I'm not saying George Harrison wasn't human. Au contraire, he had human weaknesses like anybody else. I just heard about a new one several weeks ago which completely floored me and to be honest isn't something I'd want to put even in a PM. I'd rather just not talk about it; it would be a little embarrassing. What I am saying, though, is I don't think he ever lost his work ethic. That's my opinion. I could offer many examples, although looking at how hard he worked on the Thirty Three & 1/3 album would be one good example. To repeat myself, I doubt that it mattered how hard he worked on anything by that point because I think he had lost a lot of his creative energy and magic by 1980 or so. Nevertheless, I definitely enjoyed that "Live in Japan" album and even some of the songs on "Brainwashed" such as "Marwa Blues."

 

[Biggbass]

Almost the entire Abby Road album. Phil Spector did not do the Beatles any favors on that one. Granted I believe he had a lot of unfinished work he had to tidy up. But the final release by the greatest RNR group of all time deserved better.

You are right, Phil didn't do the Beatles any favors on Abbey Road....thank God...because he had nothing to do with the production. If he had the album would certainly have been an over-reverbed mess. AR was produced by Sir George Martin, mixed by Geoff Emerick, with mixing assistance from Alan Parsons.

 

[bass12]

Tower Of Power's "Monster On A Leash" album comes to mind. Quite a bit of Prince's mid-to-late 90s stuff as well.

 

[Aberdumbie]

You are right, Phil didn't do the Beatles any favors on Abbey Road....thank God...because he had nothing to do with the production. If he had the album would certainly have been an over-reverbed mess. AR was produced by Sir George Martin, mixed by Geoff Emerick, with mixing assistance from Alan Parsons.

I know... I know.. (insert head hanging down meme here)..... I done been properly corrected on this one and once again I will lament. It is a travesty what father time has done to this mans memory.

 

[Biggbass]

I know... I know.. (insert head hanging down meme here)..... I done been properly corrected on this one and once again I will lament. It is a travesty what father time has done to this mans memory.

memory? what memory? lol. I would be scared to see the scan results of my brain cells!

 

[And I]

Anyone who ever used a Yamaha DX-7 keyboard on a record...

 

[AltGrendel]

The brass at the end is overpowering. Very annoying.

 

[Gluvhand]

Also, Michael Schenker Group's second album, "MSG." Ron Nevison is a great producer, but sonically, the record is a mess. Just how good it SHOULD have sounded is apparent if you listen to "One Night At Budokan," which is an absolutely stellar live recording of that same lineup.

Cozy Powell was pissed at Nevison til the day he died because somehow one of Cozy's bass drums didn't make it to tape.

 

[FilterFunk]

Anyone who ever used a Yamaha DX-7 keyboard on a record...

Come on...you know you love the sound of that "Solid Bass" patch!

 

[FilterFunk]

The brass at the end is overpowering. Very annoying.

I was hoping I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I guess the producer thought it was dramatic...or something.

 

[Rocker949]

PM me. This isn't what the original thread is about.

My wife is a big fan, as am I. Bottom line he was human.

You might want to look up the definition of work ethic as once it's learned, you can't pick and choose when to apply.

Kudos to you if involved in a hospice situation.

PM sent.

 

[pcake]

i really loved a lot of music in the '80s. but what do i know?

Tighter, Tighter by Alive 'N Kickin'. They used the "let's see what else we can throw in" approach. Dissonant fuzzy lead guitar, vibes, The Tijuana Brass, you name it. Unforgiveable.

tighter is another song i really love. i guess i have no taste

 

[jamro217]

i really loved a lot of music in the '80s. but what do i know?



tighter is another song i really love. i guess i have no taste

You have taste, just not the same as mine. There are probably songs that you loathe that other people really love. The fact that we're all different is what makes life so interesting and unpredictable. Have a great day, and turn that frown upside down. Yeah.

 

[nixdad]

Here are a couple songs with prominent tambourine. The great part is that whoever is playing the tambourine on each of these songs gets out of time, which is ironic considering the name of The Rolling Stones cover song, Time Is On My Side.

HA! I was going to submit these as well.