sound guy ignoring direct out on amp

[agedhorse]

I had the pleasure of being a sound guy for a lot of the "scum rock" revival punk bands in the 90's. Diesel Queens, Insaints etc.
Let's just say seeing some genitals was the least of my worries. I actually started specifying that bands bring their own microphones if they were going to come into contact with anything other than a face.

Though there were a couple times I wish I could have "DI-ed" the vocalist or back up singers of some of those bands.

You must mean acts like BH Surfers? This is where I discovered why a few acts used condoms on mics... more or less for their intended purpose.

 

[BurningSkies]

My approach.

Get there early. Help the sound person unload and set up PA system. Help unwind the snake. Talk to the sound tech and let them know how many vocal mics we need, how many instruments there are in the band. Help to run XLR cables from the stage box to the places where the band members will be. Hook up direct boxes for keyboards. Say "Test 5 Check" into the vocal mics to confirm they are on / connected. Listen to the monitor speakers and let him know when they are working and "loud enough".

In the process, the bass ends up being hooked up however I please. I'll use the amp DI if I can, sending a PRE EQ signal to the board so I don't mess him up by trying to dial in some tone that works only through my speaker (my monitor).

After the gig, help tear down. Wind cables the way the tech wants them wound. Pack mics away. Help load gear back into the van / truck / trailer.

I've never had a sound person have any problems with using my amp's DI.

Unless I know a room and it's people really well, I always aim to get in the door 15-30 minutes before they've scheduled load in. Often our band travels separately, and even having one or two people in the door ratchets down any tension. I always introduce myself to whoever is there, ask what the schedule is and where I should unload. From there, if the sound person is present, I ask if they'd like to know our setup, then tell them we'll do anything we can to make it as easy as possible. If anyone is going to be late or near stage time, I let them know ahead of time that we're expecting that, who it is and what their setup is.

Often times if its a shared band bill, I will have offered my bass rig to the other band before the day of show (save them from traveling/loading if they're coming from a distance), and I'll let the soundman know we're sharing bass rig, or kit, etc.

 

[JimmyM]

Do you have the mic on hand with a stand for the mic?

If so, I doubt many would give you an issue.

HAH!

 

[Calaverasgrande]

You must mean acts like BH Surfers? This is where I discovered why a few acts used condoms on mics... more or less for their intended purpose.

Gibby and crew are mild compared to the Insaints and similar bands. Full on sex, unidentified bodily fluids, beer etc. Lots of etc.
It was kind of a dare in a way a lot of those bands.
So you wanna see a naked lady? How much crazy will you put up with?
We all know the answer.
Whole lotta cray cray.

 

[agedhorse]

Alright, where's the last SM58... oh wait a minute, I really don't want to know the answer

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I have had that exact train of thought.
I also used to carrry a "dirty" set of mics. It was kind of fun to tell the various scumr rock and sleaze core bands to use the same nasty mics that the OTHER bands were using.
"no way, that gross mf-er has hep!".

Part of why I stick to dark wave, metal and noise shows now.
too punk for me.

 

[agedhorse]

Punk was cool before it just became gross for the sake of being nasty.

 

[P Town]

I'm not playing out, but this discussion got me to try the direct out of my PF500, which has a pre/post switch. I ran a Gibson SG (guitar) through a Radial DI, and the "through" from the DI into the PF500. I ran the Radial DI out, and the PF500 DI out nto a Mackie mixer, and listened through headphones.
I was shocked at how noisy, and how bad the PF500 DI sounded in post eq mode.
The PF500 DI out was silent in Pre eq mode, and I could not hear a difference compared to the Radial, (passive) DI.
I would have no qualms about using the DI pre/eq mode.
In post/eq mode, it hissed just like a '70s solid state Kustom tuck and roll amp.

 

[Nephilymbass]

If I play a venue that gives me a dry DI box I usually don't go back. In some cases those DI boxes actually go back to the board where they run through a sans amp. That's works well enough for me. I absolutely despise a direct to board sound. Not a huge fan of using a mic on its own either. My preference is my xlr out or blending that with a mic.

 

[lowfreq33]

Alright, where's the last SM58... oh wait a minute, I really don't want to know the answer

Been to a few GG Allin shows, have we?

 

[lowfreq33]

Actually have an interesting one from last week. We normally provide all FOH, this gig we only provide mics/stands/cables. Owner provides FOH and monitors, also runs everything.

Second night wants to talk to me about the "cheap" drum mics we're using on snare and toms. Says he has some really nice Shure mics that will "Really make those drums sing". Pulls out a bunch of beat up PG48's...

We run Shure KSM137's on snare and toms, they're around $300 apiece. Oddly he had no problem with the $40 CAD mic I'm using on the kick...

 

[Shinji]

It happens to me too mate, I have the same head and sound guys always use their DI box.
Come to think of it I've never used my built in DI and the same thing has happened with amps I've owned in the past.

 

[briskmojo]

As a soundman myself I always go with whatever the musicians want. "It's easier for me," is a pathetic excuse, my job is to take what you have and make it work. Anything less than that is unprofessional and only telling of how poor I am at my craft.

 

[remainthesame]

As a soundman myself I always go with whatever the musicians want. "It's easier for me," is a pathetic excuse, my job is to take what you have and make it work. Anything less than that is unprofessional and only telling of how poor I am at my craft.

the world needs more sound guys with your mentality

 

[agedhorse]

Been to a few GG Allin shows, have we?

Nope, but what a messed up dude all the way down to the core.

 

[agedhorse]

As a soundman myself I always go with whatever the musicians want. "It's easier for me," is a pathetic excuse, my job is to take what you have and make it work. Anything less than that is unprofessional and only telling of how poor I am at my craft.

Do you always go with what the musician wants, even if you know that it's a choice that will end poorly, that will prevent you from doing your job as well as you can?

Sure, you can take what they have and (maybe) make it work, but knowing that it's not likely to work or work well and still choosing that path is not professional IMO.

For example, knowing that the player's "coveted" direct box is riddled with intermittent problems, would this still be a good choice, or would chasing these problems throughout the show get in the way of your ability to do the best for the band as a whole? If the DI actually failed during the show, how would this add to the professionalism of the experience?

 

[JimmyM]

Do you always go with what the musician wants, even if you know that it's a choice that will end poorly, that will prevent you from doing your job as well as you can?

Sure, you can take what they have and (maybe) make it work, but knowing that it's not likely to work or work well and still choosing that path is not professional IMO.

For example, knowing that the player's "coveted" direct box is riddled with intermittent problems, would this still be a good choice, or would chasing these problems throughout the show get in the way of your ability to do the best for the band as a whole? If the DI actually failed during the show, how would this add to the professionalism of the experience?

A broken box is one thing, but what if it's not broken and you just don't like the sound of it? If a young Chris Squire came in to your club with his new band Yes in 1968, would you attempt to dial out the treble and add low end? Or how about Fieldy with his super scooped sound?

In other words, where does running sound end and editorializing on the musicians' chosen tones begin?

 

[Vince Klortho]

As a soundman myself I always go with whatever the musicians want. "It's easier for me," is a pathetic excuse, my job is to take what you have and make it work. Anything less than that is unprofessional and only telling of how poor I am at my craft.

It's nice to see that at least someone actually gets it ! I am astonished at how many don't. I would add, one more part of your job is to make something work if what they have doesn't. It happens sometimes. I have learned this from over twenty years of sound work and a few tours along the way.

 

[agedhorse]

A broken box is one thing, but what if it's not broken and you just don't like the sound of it? If a young Chris Squire came in to your club with his new band Yes in 1968, would you attempt to dial out the treble and add low end? Or how about Fieldy with his super scooped sound?

In other words, where does running sound end and editorializing on the musicians' chosen tones begin?

I'm talking about knowing there is a problem and taking the "sh*tty way out" by not saying anything, just smile and drool, rather than address it before it affects the show. When it fails during the show and saying it's the bass player's DI while all along knowing there was a problem is disrespectful to the rest of the band as well as the paying audience IMO.

I'm not talking about the tone, if the player wants a bright agressive tone that's what I will go with. I will try to duplicate in the PA what he is trying to get from the stage. I can't do this if there are technical problems that get in the way... like no signal and such.

 

[HolmeBass]

As a soundman myself I always go with whatever the musicians want. "It's easier for me," is a pathetic excuse, my job is to take what you have and make it work. Anything less than that is unprofessional and only telling of how poor I am at my craft.

Excellent. This is the attitude of all the best sound engineers I've worked with. The one's who force you to do it their way always seem to get worse mixes, more similar from band to band, and just don't seem as flexible and capable.