sound guy ignoring direct out on amp

[sunfighter]

I used to use a 800rb. This drove me nuts. I used to hear that it was hot and it was difficult. Sorry most sound guys are full on lame.

 

[monkeyfinger]

+1

IME, at least half of what this guy posted happens on any given night. Add to that the band member saying "Dude, why are you so uptight? Chill out. We were only 10 minutes late." to the soundguy.

 

[MonkeyBass]

+1

IME, at least half of what this guy posted happens on any given night. Add to that the band member saying "Dude, why are you so uptight? Chill out. We were only 10 minutes late." to the soundguy.

HAHA Yeah... Gotta love that one.

I used to wonder why sound guys always looked so tired and pissed off. Now I know.

And this is an average night. Sometimes it's better, sometimes its WAY worse.

 

[georgestrings]

HAHA Yeah... Gotta love that one.

I used to wonder why sound guys always looked so tired and pissed off. Now I know.

And this is an average night. Sometimes it's better, sometimes its WAY worse.

Truthfully, you *might* want to look for a different job - it doesn't sound like that one agrees with you very much...


- georgestrings

 

[MonkeyBass]

Truthfully, you *might* want to look for a different job - it doesn't sound like that one agrees with you very much...


- georgestrings

You're right. Actually I just landed another job that will hopefully mean I never have to deal with that BS ever again.

 

[bigchiefbc]

:snip for length:

OK, yeah we get it. Some bands are unprofessional jerks. Thankless job, etc.

But you didn't address my point from the previous page that I directed at you, nor did you address Marcus Willett's point, which was just 5 or so posts above yours.

I will repeat my point here: You say that you know the room, and bassists get DI'ed in your room, period. You'll handle the EQ, and try to meet the bassist halfway on reinforcing his "basic tone". But what if my "basic tone" necessitates mic'ing? Do you just say "tough s$*%, you're getting a clean dry DI tone"?

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Oh yes, I remember working those kinds of shows back then as well. A couple of us long time sound guys were talking about this over lunch a couple of weeks ago... what ever happened to some of those bands (those folks who haven't died of course). Some of those shows were disturbing at best... and they never complained about a DI on bass... hell, we were lucky to find the bass and trust me, we didn't look very hard at anything at those shows

I had the pleasure of being a sound guy for a lot of the "scum rock" revival punk bands in the 90's. Diesel Queens, Insaints etc.
Let's just say seeing some genitals was the least of my worries. I actually started specifying that bands bring their own microphones if they were going to come into contact with anything other than a face.

Though there were a couple times I wish I could have "DI-ed" the vocalist or back up singers of some of those bands.

 

[aborgman]

Tons of amp manufacturers put in tons of DI's on the amps they make. Some are good, soma are not, and some just downright stink.

...and some, no matter their original quality - are broken.

 

[georgestrings]

You're right. Actually I just landed another job that will hopefully mean I never have to deal with that BS ever again.

Good luck - I hope it works out, because you sound pretty unhappy with your current job...


- georgestrings

 

[aborgman]

thats just it though. like i said in the OP. in my mind, it would be easier to use my DI than the box

I have a friend who uses Apple computers all the time. Claims they're much easier to use than Windows machines. Studies agree with him.

...but for someone that spends all day working on a Windows box and doesn't use Apple products, it won't be easier to use.

 

[MonkeyBass]

OK, yeah we get it. Some bands are unprofessional jerks. Thankless job, etc.

But you didn't address my point from the previous page that I directed at you, nor did you address Marcus Willett's point, which was just 5 or so posts above yours.

I will repeat my point here: You say that you know the room, and bassists get DI'ed in your room, period. You'll handle the EQ, and try to meet the bassist halfway on reinforcing his "basic tone". But what if my "basic tone" necessitates mic'ing? Do you just say "tough s$*%, you're getting a clean dry DI tone"?

No it's not a "tough sh*t" scenario. If you say, "hey man, I'd really like it if you could mic my cabinet." I'll say "cool." and go grab a mic. But, if we have the luxury of time (as in you're the only band or one of two bands that night) and your tone is too muddy for the room. I'll either as you to change your EQ or add a DI in addition to the mic. If I don't have the time and the mic is already set up, I may try to either boost some mids or cut some lows to help get some clarity from the signal you're giving me at the mic.

I hope that makes sense. It's not a matter of being stubborn, it's a matter of trying to control and give clarity to the bass. Bass is tricky in many many rooms.

 

[MonkeyBass]

Good luck - I hope it works out, because you sound pretty unhappy with your current job...


- georgestrings

I used to like it. But you get enough nights like the one I described and it starts to wear on you. I think that's why you don't see a whole lot of "seasoned" sound guys. Mostly young guys who haven't had their souls crushed yet. I'm almost 40 so i lasted awhile.

 

[Tractorr]

I used to like it. But you get enough nights like the one I described and it starts to wear on you. I think that's why you don't see a whole lot of "seasoned" sound guys. Mostly young guys who haven't had their souls crushed yet. I'm almost 40 so i lasted awhile.

I was only able to last a month or so doing live sound, it was the worst. Your portrayal of the gear situation is actually a little better than the situation I encountered. The place I worked all the cables were labelled but nothing matched up at the console. Not the snake, not the comps, not the effects, nothing. I offered to spend an afternoon repatching everything free of charge so that everything would be labelled correctly and the owner told me no because he ran sound some nights and he knew how everything was setup. This is on top of half of everything not working.

 

[JimmyM]

Well I am a total pro and I'm not taking the heat for the non-pros who show up late and unprepared and have attitudes. No way I should be treated the same. Yet at one of every 5 or 6 gigs with an unfamiliar soundman, I am.

I finally came to the conclusion that it's a DI world for bass and nothing will ever change it. That's why I got the REDDI. I suggest to all bass players out there who love micing their cabs that they better come up with a DI solution if they hope to have a chance in hell of getting a representative sound. As you can see, you're never going to change people's minds who have them made up already that bass cab mic = bad sound.

 

[bigchiefbc]

No it's not a "tough sh*t" scenario. If you say, "hey man, I'd really like it if you could mic my cabinet." I'll say "cool." and go grab a mic. But, if we have the luxury of time (as in you're the only band or one of two bands that night) and your tone is too muddy for the room. I'll either as you to change your EQ or add a DI in addition to the mic. If I don't have the time and the mic is already set up, I may try to either boost some mids or cut some lows to help get some clarity from the signal you're giving me at the mic.

I hope that makes sense. It's not a matter of being stubborn, it's a matter of trying to control and give clarity to the bass. Bass is tricky in many many rooms.

That makes perfect sense and is reasonable. I would never have a problem with a soundguy proposing any of those solutions. But I've had some guys act like I was a prima donna for wanting to mic my cabinet, even if I offered to provide my own mic, and set it up myself. I've also had soundguys roll their eyes and give me a hard time when they saw my pedalboard.

 

[MonkeyBass]

As you can see, you're never going to change people's minds who have them made up already that bass cab mic = bad sound.

Is this directed at me? If so I suggest you reread what I've written.

 

[MonkeyBass]

That makes perfect sense and is reasonable. I would never have a problem with a soundguy proposing any of those solutions. But I've had some guys act like I was a prima donna for wanting to mic my cabinet, even if I offered to provide my own mic, and set it up myself. I've also had soundguys roll their eyes and give me a hard time when they saw my pedalboard.

Yeah... well there are bad sound guys too. I'm not denying that. The world is full of idiots on both sides of the mixing board.

 

[bigchiefbc]

Well I am a total pro and I'm not taking the heat for the non-pros who show up late and unprepared and have attitudes. No way I should be treated the same. Yet at one of every 5 or 6 gigs with an unfamiliar soundman, I am.

I finally came to the conclusion that it's a DI world for bass and nothing will ever change it. That's why I got the REDDI. I suggest to all bass players out there who love micing their cabs that they better come up with a DI solution if they hope to have a chance in hell of getting a representative sound. As you can see, you're never going to change people's minds who have them made up already that bass cab mic = bad sound.

I know what you're saying Jimmy. I'm an FX geek at heart, and I've tried so GD many overdrives, preamps and DIs, and I just CANNOT get the sound I want out of any of them.

 

[JimmyM]

Is this directed at me? If so I suggest you reread what I've written.

Believe it or not, it wasn't all about you, bro. Guilty conscience?

That was a joke, BTW. Calm down, everyone!!!

 

[xUptheIronsx]

I'm not saying you have to tip the sound guy, I'm saying that sound guys work their butt off for very little money. We make less then the cocktail waitress.

My whole point of chiming in on this thread in the first place was to try to dispel some myths about sound guys. Such as that they're out to get you. They're out to sabotage your sound. That they're lazy. That they don't care about your precious tone. That they make a butt load of money.

My suggestion is you may want to put yourself in that guy's shoes sometime. It's a thankless job and it's a tough job.

I've toured the country as a bass player. Load in, load out. Drive, hotel, load in, load out. I thought that was a tough gig. Then I became a sound guy.

Here's a typical night for a sound guy:

Show up an hour before the band is supposed to get there. Turn on everything, do a main speaker check, track down a buzz that mysteriously showed up. Get the drum mics prepped.

Sit around for an hour waiting for the band because they're an hour late as always (except the one time you're running late then they're at the door pissed off because you made them wait 5 minutes).

The band slowly wanders in, you ask one of them how many people are in the band and what instruments they have. The guy you ask doesn't know so you get a general idea and start pulling mics and stands. The drummer is still not there.

Finally you get the bass and guitar, and keyboards set up when the drummer wanders in. You're now 15 minutes from doors.

So you wait for the drummer to set up his Neil Peart sized drum kit and finally get it all set up. You start the line check and track down that the buzz in the bass channel is from the DI in the amp that the bass player assured you was good. So you use the busted up Whirlwind DI because the venue owner won't buy you a Radial. Hell he won't buy you new mic stands to replace the ones with bad clutches.

As you're working on the monitors the lead singer shows up. Oh ok... Nobody told me there was another guy. Fine. Oh... he has his own condensor mic that he wants me to use. Ok so now I have to ring out his monitor 2 minutes before door open because he can't use an SM58 like everybody else? ok. Go tell the door guy to hold the doors for 5 minutes.

Ring out his monitor, get a basic sound check. Deal with monitor mixes for 10 minutes (still holding doors) because the band can't quit noodling and goofing off to get a monitor mix set.

Finally throw on the house music and tell the door guy to open the doors. Deal with customers asking to play their favorite song through the PA. Explain its a Spotify station and you're not a DJ. Deal with customers asking you where their server went. Explain that you don't know and it's not your job to deal with the servers.

10 minutes after start time the band finally goes on because you had to track them all down. One at the bar, one making out with his girlfriend, one smoking dope in his car...

Run lights, monitors, and FOH mix all at the same time. All the while dealing with people telling you to turn up the guitars only to have the next person telling you to turn them down. The band manager requests that you turn it up only to have the bar tender or club owner tell you to turn it down.

Deal with that for and hour. Tell the band they have one more song in their set. They play two.

Now you're running even more behind so the band after them is pissed. You scramble to get the next band up there. You try to give the band what they want but it's tough or impossible because, thanks to the first band, you're now 20 minutes behind schedule.

Get them up and running in 15 or 20 minutes and deal with the "expert" mixing advise during that set.

Repeat. Except this time a guy brings in a vintage (as in broken) Moog Taurus that takes 10 minutes to get working.

Finally at 1:00AM you give last call. Band continues to play for 10 minutes after last call. Bartender gets pissed.

Finally the last band stops playing. You grab all your mics before someone steals them. Put all your stuff away as you work around all the gear still left on stage because the last band is in no hurry to get out of there even though the sound guy just wants to get home and sleep.

Finally you get all your crap put away, shut it all down, and go home. Total for the night $150 if you're lucky.

Come back the next night only to discover a few of your extension cords were stolen.

It's still better than working retail.

on the other hand, here is what we experience many times...(not to cut on soundmen in general, but...)

we (band) get there about an hour early and load in. The opening bar tender has to let us in and knows nothing about what is going on (not their job so no problem).

We load into or onto a stage that is dark cause there are no lights on. The next band shows up and starts getting their stuff in

Sound guy shows up still drunk from the night before, and starts getting all of his stuff out. Reveals that he is only micing the kick drum and snare; goes to the bar and hits on the bartender a bit; schmoozes with the guys in the other band that were at the party last night; gets around to starting to mic things and spends FOREVER on the guitar players cabs; throes the vocal mics up on the stage; asks if I have a direct box, I don't, but I do have my XLR out from my pre-amp so he then hands me the end of the cable that goes in there;

all along, no one is holding any doors, so the place is filling up with people; people that he schmoozes with on the way to the board; gets up to the board and we all do a basic line check, basic monitor check and he says "I'm good" and is off to drink...

while we are playing he is no where near the board as things rattle and hum; the guitars and snare are way too loud etc. etc.

I have had many LESS experiences with sound guys as you describe in the quoted post...where they are lucid, professional, and care about doing there job.

In the end, it never really bothers me cause I grew up in the punk world where the only demand for sound was that it was louder. I am not picky, and have grown to realize that unless I am playing a gig in a small arena, or stadium where the sound guys are union or at the highest level, I am always going to get "club sound"

I think it is funny that many of my contemporaries will walk into "local rock club" or "sports bar" and expect an arena level mix. Therein lies the problem