FWIW: I keep a BDDI in my bag - but heres the real deal. If a soundman is bad, no matter what kind of mic or DI gets used, he will still manage to make it sound bad, because thats what bad soundmen do.
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sound guy ignoring direct out on amp
- Thread starter remainthesame
- Start date
Felt like it was, and not just you... but no worries, I will forget about this thread by tomorrow.
You see over here you never get a free sound guy. You either pay yourself in full (which is the norm) or the club takes it from your door cut. So in this scenario as a sound guy for a club the band has paid you by proxy anyway. So an excuse of "Hey the club says..." isn't going to fly with me because the club is actually paying for the guy out of our cut.
My opinion of a good sound guy comes down to quick competent decision making, good general knowledge and impeccable communication. Our regular guy ticks all these boxes which is why he's with us on every gig.
Someone who couldn't figure out how to work a GK DI would want to be really transparent with me about their rationale for any work-around if they wanted to get paid.
Yes. It takes me 5 minutes to set up my gear, dial in my amp tone and be ready to soundcheck -- If I'm using my combo amp. It takes me 2 minutes if I'm BDDI to the board. I have very little tolerance for a soundman who shows up a half hour late, then drags his azz mic'ing up the drumkit, needs 15 minutes just to get the kick sounding right and then says "sorry we dont have any time for the bass... I'll do a line check now and then tweak you live." Which invariably means two songs of no bass in FOH at all followed by another song of working out the EQ.
I am still amazed anyone can say instrument X is less important than instrument Y. If you are not getting a big following or first pick on venues, now you know why.
You're assuming that it's about me getting "my way." Nope, it's about getting what the band needs. If I think I'm too loud in the mix, I'm just as vocal about the bass getting turned down as I am when it's not up enough or mixed poorly.
On most of my gigs, I am a VIP. I'm not the leader, but I'm the designated FOH listener because the guy in charge plays drums. Some gigs I just show up to play bass, and I don't care so much because someone else takes care of it. But with my regular band, my opinion carries a lot of weight.
Most of the time, yes, unless they have a compelling reason to disagree with me.
If the FOH was good otherwise, probably not. But you'd always be remembered as the soundman who was good but really touchy
Who says it would take you extra time? And who says you don't have a little extra time to handle it? Most of my gigs aren't gigs where we have 3 minute set changes. We get there plenty early for anyone to deal with stuff. And really, considering I have only ever used one line unless the soundman wanted two, how hard can it be to deal with? Not talking 6 lines here like Tim Commerford or something.
The DI in your amp isn't too far away from what most DI's sound like, so it's not a big stretch for someone like you as opposed to a tube amp fan or a mic'ed cab fan.
Getting the vocals sounding right, then everything else is of equal importance and should be handled as quickly as possible. And you should have the mix straightened out decently enough by the end of the first song at the very latest IMHO (assuming you're not mixing a band of insane loud whackos who are fighting you every step of the way).
I am still amazed anyone can say instrument X is less important than instrument Y. If you are not getting a big following or first pick on venues, now you know why.
And I am still amazed that many bass players think that everything is absolutely equal.
Think on this: go to a Rush concert and have the concert goers rate the importance of bass tone to a live performance. Then go to the Adele concert and do the same. You getting the same answers? I think not.
Come on, situational awareness! It's important.
And I do fine, thank you very much.
Do you seriously think Adele doesn't care what the bass sounds like on her shows? A soul singer? A soul singer who had Stuart Zender playing on her album? Of course she cares about the bass! It's soul music!!! Maybe her audience doesn't say, "Oh, what awesome bass" when they leave the show, but you know what? Maybe some of them do. But even if they don't, does it make the bass unimportant? Or even less important than anything but the lead vocal? Get out of town!
You all need to get this idea out of your head that the audience is stupid if you want to get anywhere with music. They're not. And when you think the bass is the least important instrument up there because of audience perception, especially when you're a bass player, then you might as well just say, "I have no business being here and I'm going home."
You are right it is only the suck ass club guys that wont let you use you amp Di. In that case you probably better just let him use what he is use to. i am always super nice to the sound people and even with reg box rapco, or wirlwind my sound has come through. but I dont use effects and the bass is my sound. One of my teachers at Atlanta int of music told me to make sure your sound comes from your bass, I guess this is what he was talking about. I always carry my markbass di and sans amp just in case. At a big fest show my svt 2 pro shut off and i finished the show with my sans amp and the two stage sidefills on my side of stage. I went back and listend to the tape and you could hardly tell, the sans sound is close to the svt. The fan stopped working on my amp and it shut down.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,398
- 9,830
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
I'm leaving the rest of your post off, to hammer this point home. The audience is not stupid, and SO many musicians write them off. I'm sort of glad, because the bands that DON'T take the audience as patsies are the bands that are winning.
You're assuming that it's about me getting "my way." Nope, it's about getting what the band needs. If I think I'm too loud in the mix, I'm just as vocal about the bass getting turned down as I am when it's not up enough or mixed poorly.
On most of my gigs, I am a VIP. I'm not the leader, but I'm the designated FOH listener because the guy in charge plays drums. Some gigs I just show up to play bass, and I don't care so much because someone else takes care of it. But with my regular band, my opinion carries a lot of weight.
Most of the time, yes, unless they have a compelling reason to disagree with me.
If the FOH was good otherwise, probably not. But you'd always be remembered as the soundman who was good but really touchy
Who says it would take you extra time? And who says you don't have a little extra time to handle it? Most of my gigs aren't gigs where we have 3 minute set changes. We get there plenty early for anyone to deal with stuff. And really, considering I have only ever used one line unless the soundman wanted two, how hard can it be to deal with? Not talking 6 lines here like Tim Commerford or something.
The DI in your amp isn't too far away from what most DI's sound like, so it's not a big stretch for someone like you as opposed to a tube amp fan or a mic'ed cab fan.
Getting the vocals sounding right, then everything else is of equal importance and should be handled as quickly as possible. And you should have the mix straightened out decently enough by the end of the first song at the very latest IMHO (assuming you're not mixing a band of insane loud whackos who are fighting you every step of the way).
Jimmy, by this account you lead a good life - better than most gigging musicians out there. Good for you.
And to be clear, if I was running sound for your band I bet we would get along just fine. It seems that your band is paying me, there are people in charge to make decisions on what is important, and there is time to get things done. Sounds like a good gig to have. Other gigs work a lot different.
I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that when I run sound I won't use an amp DI or even mic a cab. But they do take a little longer, don't they? If not, there is a problem - they should. Taking a line from a DI without shinning a flashlight at the controls and taking a good look and asking some well informed questions? That isn't a good sign. Even worse is throwing a mic in front of an amp and leaving it. Nailed the positioning on the first try, did ya? Fortuitous! Lol.
People on the thread are admitting that they are in situations where all they are getting is line checks and on-the-fly mixes. This is what I am taking about, isn't it?
Look, I think we all get a little hyperbolic on these threads, and it is talkbass not talkband or talksoundman. But everyone should keep a little perspective, especially that of people who support you in your creative endeavors...
Well I didn't point a finger directly at you, but since you did to me.
While the bass is not foremost on the audiences mind it strongly influences the perception of the overall experience. If you don't believe this you are two strings short
I get asked to remix live bands even in this small city and the difference in audience perception and participation is huge.
Exactly. I'd love to see that go down. You get Adele's bass player up after the gig asking what went down and you're all saying "Oh yeah. I totally phoned-in your tone because Adele is the important one. Had no time for you bro. Sorry about that. Look on the bright side man, nobody was listening to you eh. It's not like you're Geddy Lee eh."
Fired.
Wow.
First.
I never said the audience was stupid. Did I? I said some audiences think certain aspects of a live show are more and less important.
Next.
And I never said Adele doesn't care. Did I? Now, with that said...
Where's the bass?
Next.
Outside of bassists, how many people in 100 knows who Stuart Zender is?
Almost done.
I am perfectly happy with my bass playing and my musical career. I enjoy playing greatly and I find great satisfaction in my endeavors.
To wrap up.
Look, all I am doing at this point is getting panties in a twist. I didn't intend it to be so. It's clear many do not want another perspective. So I'll bow out now. Everyone here should follow their bliss and make whatever demands they need to fulfill their creative and professional endeavors. Best to you all.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,398
- 9,830
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Right? I mean, even if (as has been implied) I was the last guy in the band the organization listened to, I'm still IN the band. Which puts me at least one step ahead of the sound guy.
Well I didn't point a finger directly at you, but since you did to me.
While the bass is not foremost on the audiences mind it strongly influences the perception of the overall experience. If you don't believe this you are two strings short
I get asked to remix live bands even in this small city and the difference in audience perception and participation is huge.
Apologies. Was trying to balance the conversation. It did not work. I am out.
One more. Adele is not a band, is she? Her players are hired guns, aren't they? And who says being Adele's bass player is "one step ahead" of being a soundman, as if that is a lower function. And this from a mod? Really?
I am sad. But I will get over it. Peace!
Want to know what I paid in longterm parking at the airport last year? No you don't
They really shouldn't, no more than someone using a different bass into your same DI should take.
Anyway, I'll agree that I'd probably get along with you fine doing sound on our gigs. But it should be less about who's paying you than just wanting to do a good job in general and make the band comfortable enough to where they can do a good job. I get that your club owner has rules. That's fine. I'm just talking about respect.
Well I can't speak for everyone, but when I was micing, I studied my cabs with recordings to find out where on the cone the mic sounds the best. I'm curious, though, as to why mic placement is a huge issue with bass and not guitar. Do YOU nail the positioning on the first try with guitar? If so, what makes you think you can't do it on bass?
So we'll let the guitarist and drummer swap out sets and amps and pedals, but the bass player has to use this Whirlwind Imp 2 that's been here for a decade instead of micing his killer rig or using his own XLR out of his own choosing. That's fair.
That's funny...because all I hear is a lot of folks who do multi-band gigs talking about how best to suck up to soundmen to get what they want on these types of gigs. Meanwhile, if not for the bands who have created these local scenes and draw people to clubs such as yours to see them, you would be mixing nobody. They're the whole reason the soundman has the job, and then they go to these clubs and get treated like crap because they want good sound for the people who are paying to see them.
I understand fully that clubs have rules and volume restrictions and stuff, and I totally believe that inexperienced bands with bad sounds and insane volume in situations where it's not wanted should do less demanding and more question asking. But making a bass player in a decent band use gear he/she hates that's diametrically opposed to the sound they're trying to achieve just because it's slightly easier on you (and I disagree about the level of difficulty completely) is disrespectful. I don't see anyone doing that to guitarists or drummers.
Oh, well when you put it like that, I guess that makes it OK to screw over the bass and not anyone else
No, I have enough pull that things get done the way I want them to be done...
- georgestrings
