Sounds too modern?

[Tim Skaggs]

I think I've reached a point in my playing career where my taste in amps and speaker cabinets don't match up with a lot of the more popular gear on the market. Make sure to notice I didn't say "all" the gear on the market.

So, I started playing a long time ago when single 15" combos were very common. I owned a couple and that's all I played through for a few years. Eventually I added a 2x10 cab, but then I got into a lot of variety, 410s, 810, 2x15, 2x12, 1x12, etc. I've also had had a pretty wide variety of amps, and kinda still do.

I find a lot of newer gear (example: Ampeg BA210 ver2) is too high-fi for my tastes. Too much pillowy bottom end, scooped mids, and sparkling highs. I can EQ it to something I can live with, but I still prefer the natural midrange bark of a couple limited x-max 15"s. Super low end is not a requirement for me.

Example; i had an Ampeg SVT 410 hlf for several years, and it started collecting dust because I preferred the tone of two old EV TL606 cabs with my Fender Studio Bass head.

I know I'm generalizing quite a bit here, but I was just wondering if anyone else finds themselves preferring tone of older gear to some newer hi-fi stuff..... Could just be me getting old

 

[Wulfensteiner]

Nah, I'd have to say that it's the general consensus tbh. As much as I love me some kick-in-the-balls lows, 'digital' 'grain' and sparkling highs, gimme an ol' tube head any day. Well..not Ampeg. I'll take 'digital' over 'baked in tone I don't care for and can't get rid of'.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

@Tim Skaggs
We're in the same camp. I used SWR cabinets for quite a few years. I found that I always dialed the tweeters off, and I dialed my eq to get more low mids and midrange, and then I was really happy with their sound. I played through my Bergantino HT210/HT115 cabinets for years, playing Ballads, and Modern Country with a female vocalist, and they worked flawlessly. But when I started playing Classic Rock in another band, they sounded a bit too polite, and I was getting buried onstage.

I've definitely reverted back to the bass sounds that I grew up listening to.

 

[Passinwind]

I know I'm generalizing quite a bit here, but I was just wondering if anyone else finds themselves preferring tone of older gear to some newer hi-fi stuff..... Could just be me getting old

Nope, but with the qualifier that IMHO what you described as being hi-fi actually isn't at all.

 

[dagrev]

I think I know what you are saying. There are many bass flavors that sound good in the right setting, but I always go back to wanting warm and even big and warm. My Ampeg 212AV and Heritage 410 (w/either my Ampeg V-4B or V-4BH) do those things for me, with the 410 having some serious big warm presence. I'm not really interested in cutting through anything, but surrounding everything to some extent.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I'm only speaking for what works for me, now that I'm starting up a new hard rock/metal band. We're a trio with a lead vocalist, so in a trio format, I'm a bit more active. I've found having a little bit of grit to my tone very much

I think I know what you are saying. There are many bass flavors that sound good in the right setting, but I always go back to wanting warm and even big and warm. My Ampeg 212AV and Heritage 410 (w/either my Ampeg V-4B or V-4BH) do those things for me, with the 410 having some serious big warm presence. I'm not really interested in cutting through anything, but surrounding everything to some extent.

I'm starting a hard rock/metal band with some long time friends, and a cranked up SVT is definitely what I need. Unfortunately, I'm Ampeg-Less at this time, but I've dialed up a mildly overdriven *SVT-ish* tone with my Aguilar TH500. Next up, I'm going to buy a Tech 21 GED-2112 preamp, and run separate cabinets. One for crunch, the other for deep bass.

Now, if I could only convince my wife to let me splurge on a Heritage SVT-CL and a pair of Heritage 810E's, I'd be set! And that amp setup could even make me look cool standing in front of it!

 

[Hundred proof]

I'm very much into the old school vibe ... early Sunn and ACC Acoustic gear. Never been able to get close with newer gear, to get that wrap its arms around you vibe. I'm totally aware times and tastes have changed but I play old school and not high volume music. My favorite way to use the Sunn rig is barefoot into a small to midsize room so you really get to hear and feel the character of the amp.

 

[dagrev]

Now, if I could only convince my wife to let me splurge on a Heritage SVT-CL and a pair of Heritage 810E's, I'd be set! And that amp setup could even make me look cool standing in front of it!

Cool? You'd look like an Iceberg throwing sonic thunder!

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Nope, but with the qualifier that IMHO what you described as being hi-fi actually isn't at all. View attachment 3023063

For lack of a better term, "hi-fi" is what I came up with in the effort to describe what I hear in some of the new gear available. Cabs with useable lows down below 40Hz and highs well into five figure Hz. It's difficult to verbalized what I'm attempting to describe. An Ampeg SVT410 hlf is the best example I have experienced. It sounds fantastic to me when solo'd; deep clear lows and crisp highs. When I play it in a full band, the deep clear lows become kinda muddy, the highs are a little more than a sizzle, and mids don't exist. I can boost mids with EQ, but that doesn't sound the same to me as a cabinet that actually has a natural mid presence.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

View attachment 3023306 I'm very much into the old school vibe ... early Sunn and ACC Acoustic gear. Never been able to get close with newer gear, to get that wrap its arms around you vibe. I'm totally aware times and tastes have changed but I play old school and not high volume music. My favorite way to use the Sunn rig is barefoot into a small to midsize room so you really get to hear and feel the character of the amp.

Your rig appears to be something that would provide the tone I'm comfortable with.

Here's one of my rigs.

 

[Korladis]

Nah, I'd have to say that it's the general consensus tbh. As much as I love me some kick-in-the-balls lows, 'digital' 'grain' and sparkling highs, gimme an ol' tube head any day. Well..not Ampeg. I'll take 'digital' over 'baked in tone I don't care for and can't get rid of'.

Ampeg tube heads actually have very little "baked in" sound to them, at least in terms of EQ. They are far more flat than most other tube amps. The cabs, however, are a different story...

 

[Wasnex]

For lack of a better term, "hi-fi" is what I came up with in the effort to describe what I hear in some of the new gear available. Cabs with useable lows down below 40Hz and highs well into five figure Hz. It's difficult to verbalized what I'm attempting to describe. An Ampeg SVT410 hlf is the best example I have experienced. It sounds fantastic to me when solo'd; deep clear lows and crisp highs. When I play it in a full band, the deep clear lows become kinda muddy, the highs are a little more than a sizzle, and mids don't exist. I can boost mids with EQ, but that doesn't sound the same to me as a cabinet that actually has a natural mid presence.

I get the impression the 410HLF is mid scooped. Some people consider that sound HIFI but I don't. I actually like HIFI cabinets as long as the term is interpreted to mean full range flat response (FRFR). Gotta have some mids to cut through the mix!

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Nah, I'd have to say that it's the general consensus tbh. As much as I love me some kick-in-the-balls lows, 'digital' 'grain' and sparkling highs, gimme an ol' tube head any day. Well..not Ampeg. I'll take 'digital' over 'baked in tone I don't care for and can't get rid of'.

I guess I would have to take back some of my original post. I don't have an issue with newer solid state amps. I think my issue is with modern cabinets more than anything else. I do have a 200 watt all tube head, but it couldn't work any magic with that SVT 410 hlf.

What prompted me to start this thread is a gig this weekend with a new Ampeg BA210 ver2. It sounded great in the store and in my shop, but in a live setting, it lacked the cut-thru tone of my older EV 15s. I had it also driving a JBL single 15 that helped a lot, but it was still lacking the tone I'm used to having available.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I get the impression the 410HLF is mid scooped. Some people consider that sound HIFI but I don't. I actually like HIFI cabinets as long as the term is interpreted to mean full range flat response (FRFR). Gotta have some mids to cut through the mix!

Agree, and yes, the 410 HLF is somewhat mid scooped.

 

[Korladis]

I get the impression the 410HLF is mid scooped. Some people consider that sound HIFI but I don't. I actually like HIFI cabinets as long as the term is interpreted to mean full range flat response (FRFR). Gotta have some mids to cut through the mix!

It is very mid scooped, in my experience.

It's basically the opposite sound of an 810. Huge sub-lows, some high end due to the tweeter, no mids.

 

[Korladis]

I guess I would have to take back some of my original post. I don't have an issue with newer solid state amps. I think my issue is with modern cabinets more than anything else. I do have a 200 watt all tube head, but it couldn't work any magic with that SVT 410 hlf.

What prompted me to start this thread is a gig this weekend with a new Ampeg BA210 ver2. It sounded great in the store and in my shop, but in a live setting, it lacked the cut-thru tone of my older EV 15s. I had it also driving a JBL single 15 that helped a lot, but it was still lacking the tone I'm used to having available.

At the show I was at last night, the bassist was using an old Acoustic 370/301 rig. Honky on its own, but damn it sounded good in the mix. Super punchy, but sitting above the kick drum, and very audible without overpowering everyone else.

 

[two fingers]

Try an HPF. That little 2-10 cab was never designed to put out deep lows at any acceptable volume. Neither was the JBL 15. But you can level out the sound some by chopping off those sub lows.

I have a conspiracy theory. Combo bass rigs are designed to sound great with a bass soloed. That's why you buy it. It sounds great in the store. I have struggled with all but one combo I ever owned (Mesa Walkabout Scout 15" is outstanding). But then you get them on stage and can hardly dial in a good tone for a live mix. That's been my experience anyway.

I'm sure the defenders of Ampeg and Fender combos will be along any time now to battle windmills.

Other than that, go.modular next time. It's a whole lot easier to swap out the parts you don't like when they're not in the same box.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Your rig appears to be something that would provide the tone I'm comfortable with.

Here's one of my rigs.

View attachment 3023597

Your bass is beautiful. It looks very classic.

As far as "modern sounding" amps, I've found myself wanting to go to the past but by a different direction. I like the PF series Ampegs and I'm going to get one of their heads. Also, not quite relevant, but I've tried out at least a half dozen small combo amps in the last year looking for the tone I like. I ended up keeping an Ampeg BA108v2 because of its vintage flavor. While it's a totally modern amp I can dial in a real vintage tone. Quite nice for a little amp too. I get what you're saying and I miss the days when I did have an SVT/810. Glory days of my youth sadly I don't want to move such a monster anymore.

 

[Wasnex]

I guess I would have to take back some of my original post. I don't have an issue with newer solid state amps. I think my issue is with modern cabinets more than anything else. I do have a 200 watt all tube head, but it couldn't work any magic with that SVT 410 hlf.

What prompted me to start this thread is a gig this weekend with a new Ampeg BA210 ver2. It sounded great in the store and in my shop, but in a live setting, it lacked the cut-thru tone of my older EV 15s. I had it also driving a JBL single 15 that helped a lot, but it was still lacking the tone I'm used to having available.

Amp/cab pairings can be pretty critical, so your experience is not unusual. The 410HLF is probably a better choice for a super tight solid state amp with a powerful EQ section and lots of power. I don't think a lot of people with all tube heads are big fans of this cab. In general tube heads are often not a good match for ported cabinets with big/boomy lows. IMHO, the TL cabinets don't generally have huge lows and typically work pretty well with tube heads.

In general, I think most players who run all tube tend to prefer more traditional speakers like the TL606 than multi-way HIFI designs. Some like two-way designs with a woofer and dedicated mid, but lot's are extremely anti-tweeter which is totally understandable if you going to use any overdrive or distortion.

 

[LuckyScott]

It might be part of getting older....hahaha.
I just had a conversation with my guitar player about this. I used to have a bunch of cool stuff and a rack full of effects. Now, I run a Gallian Krueger on top of a single cab and let it roar. The rack full of stuff sits on a shelf.