source audio c4

[Felkara]

You would also need to change the envelope trigger source/pitch detection to “input 2” as well.

Probably need to change the routing to “dual input” too.

Okay, so experimenting with the 24K Magic Moog preset, I have done the following:

In/Out 1 loop taken out of switcher
In/Out 2 loop on in switcher
Input 1 Gain to 0
Input 2 Gain to my usual gain level
Output Balance to 254
Voice 1-4: Processor Pan to 254
Voice 4: Monophonic Pitch 2 rather than 1
Mix 1: Off
Mix 2: On; Output 2 only

(At which point all I get is clean bass)

Envelopes 1 and 2: Audio Input 2
(Now I’m getting a crazy distorted hard sawtooth-ish buzz, but that matches pitch with what I’m playing)

Pitch Detector: Audio Input 2
(Very little change in sound)

Routing & Options
Input Routing Options: both Dual Input 1 & 2 and Auto-Detect give the same buzzing sound which sounds nothing like the intended patch

What am I missing here?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Okay, so experimenting with the 24K Magic Moog preset, I have done the following:

In/Out 1 loop taken out of switcher
In/Out 2 loop on in switcher
Input 1 Gain to 0
Input 2 Gain to my usual gain level
Output Balance to 254
Voice 1-4: Processor Pan to 254
Voice 4: Monophonic Pitch 2 rather than 1
Mix 1: Off
Mix 2: On; Output 2 only

(At which point all I get is clean bass)

Envelopes 1 and 2: Audio Input 2
(Now I’m getting a crazy distorted hard sawtooth-ish buzz, but that matches pitch with what I’m playing)

Pitch Detector: Audio Input 2
(Very little change in sound)

Routing & Options
Input Routing Options: both Dual Input 1 & 2 and Auto-Detect give the same buzzing sound which sounds nothing like the intended patch

What am I missing here?

If routing to processor 2, you’d also need to copy all the processor 1 settings across to processor 2. However, you shouldn’t need to touch the processor settings (envelope, cutoff etc) just to route to a different output. See below.

Okay, so experimenting with the 24K Magic Moog preset, I have done the following:

In/Out 1 loop taken out of switcher
In/Out 2 loop on in switcher
Input 1 Gain to 0
Input 2 Gain to my usual gain level
Output Balance to 254
Voice 1-4: Processor Pan to 254
Voice 4: Monophonic Pitch 2 rather than 1
Mix 1: Off
Mix 2: On; Output 2 only

(At which point all I get is clean bass)

Envelopes 1 and 2: Audio Input 2
(Now I’m getting a crazy distorted hard sawtooth-ish buzz, but that matches pitch with what I’m playing)

Pitch Detector: Audio Input 2
(Very little change in sound)

Routing & Options
Input Routing Options: both Dual Input 1 & 2 and Auto-Detect give the same buzzing sound which sounds nothing like the intended patch

What am I missing here?

All you should really need to do is the following:

Set envelope 1 and 2 trigger source to “input 2”;

Set the pitch detection to “input 2”;

Set both mix 1 and mix 2 output to “output 2 only”;

Change the input routing to “dual input”;

Set your input 2 gain.

Maybe try it without the switcher connected first to see if you’ve made a routing error in the switcher.

 

[Felkara]

If routing to processor 2, you’d also need to copy all the processor 1 settings across to processor 2. However, you shouldn’t need to touch the processor settings (envelope, cutoff etc) just to route to a different output. See below.

All you should really need to do is the following:

Set envelope 1 and 2 trigger source to “input 2”;

Set the pitch detection to “input 2”;

Set both mix 1 and mix 2 output to “output 2 only”;

Change the input routing to “dual input”;

Set your input 2 gain.

Maybe try it without the switcher connected first to see if you’ve made a routing error in the switcher.

Okay so trying this still gives me nothing from just In/Out 2, and only sound (the correct patch sound) with In/Out 1. What am I missing here?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Okay so trying this still gives me nothing from just In/Out 2, and only sound (the correct patch sound) with In/Out 1. What am I missing here?

View attachment 5123797

You shouldn’t need to touch the output balance as that pans between processors not between outputs. Leave it where it was in the patch.

 

[Felkara]

You shouldn’t need to touch the output balance as that pans between processors not between outputs. Leave it where it was in the patch.

I’m completely flummoxed, because I’ve done everything you said, and I’m still only getting sound through the In/Out 1 loop and nothing when including In/Out 2 or just In/Out 2 on its own.

I have noticed, however, that the global Default Input Routing keeps switching from Dual Input 1&2 to Auto Detect. Could that be the issue here?

I’ve got a rehearsal this evening and had hoped to have cracked this routing issue before then. Maybe I’ll need to do a factory reset when I get back to see if that fixes it?

 

[Quatschmacher]

I’m completely flummoxed, because I’ve done everything you said, and I’m still only getting sound through the In/Out 1 loop and nothing when including In/Out 2 or just In/Out 2 on its own.

I have noticed, however, that the global Default Input Routing keeps switching from Dual Input 1&2 to Auto Detect. Could that be the issue here?

I’ve got a rehearsal this evening and had hoped to have cracked this routing issue before then. Maybe I’ll need to do a factory reset when I get back to see if that fixes it?

The routing is stored per patch so you’ll need to amend it for most presets created by others, but if you are planning on using this dual input setting all the time, it’s worth altering this in the global settings too.

 

[sunbeast]

I’m completely flummoxed, because I’ve done everything you said, and I’m still only getting sound through the In/Out 1 loop and nothing when including In/Out 2 or just In/Out 2 on its own.

I have noticed, however, that the global Default Input Routing keeps switching from Dual Input 1&2 to Auto Detect. Could that be the issue here?

I’ve got a rehearsal this evening and had hoped to have cracked this routing issue before then. Maybe I’ll need to do a factory reset when I get back to see if that fixes it?

I'm a bit confused how you are running your loop switcher- based on your description it sounds like you are running the two C4 loops in series so that you can place other loops in between the two C4 processors? If so, then you'd need to have some output from loop 1 (through the C4 input/output 1) in order to be sending your bass signal to loop 2 (and C4 Input 2) at all. If you are using your switcher as a parallel switcher (so just mixing different loops) then it should work regardless. Apologies if I'm completely missing something.

 

[Felkara]

I'm a bit confused how you are running your loop switcher- based on your description it sounds like you are running the two C4 loops in series so that you can place other loops in between the two C4 processors? If so, then you'd need to have some output from loop 1 (through the C4 input/output 1) in order to be sending your bass signal to loop 2 (and C4 Input 2) at all. If you are using your switcher as a parallel switcher (so just mixing different loops) then it should work regardless. Apologies if I'm completely missing something.

Maybe I should give a little more context. My switcher is a G3 Atom. It has 6 reorderable loops that can also have parallel sits and a 7th aux loop the if not being used for a tuner, can add another effect. The aux loop sits pre-buffer and sits before any splitting, and can’t be reordered. My thinking was that by splitting the c4 this way, I’d have some more options with how I effect my bass.

Predominantly, I would want to have most of my patches running through in/out 2, so I can take advantage of the parallel processing, rather than just the internal wet/dry mixer in the C4, with the option to use both inputs where I would want to split a synth patch and have, say, one side going into more dirt or filtering in my Spectrum and the other into time-based effects or similar.

I just feel like I’m missing something simple and that what I’m trying to do isn’t actually that complicated. Unless perhaps the complexity of the c4 means it is, and it’s either input 1 or nothing. It’s not the end of the world if so, as I can always rewire the board and just run into Loop 1 out of in/out 1 only, but would be a bit of a pain nonetheless.

 

[Billyears IV]

Does anyone use this pedal with Ableton? I am thinking of getting the C4 but problem-free control from Ableton is a must for me. Patch changing or even better controlling patch parameters (like cut off filters) through an envelope - is all working good?

Id be interested in this, using Ableton more & more. But I haven't had time to look into it. Doesnt seem to be much out there and no one else responding here atm....

 

[rsmith601]

Id be interested in this, using Ableton more & more. But I haven't had time to look into it. Doesnt seem to be much out there and no one else responding here atm....

All of our One Series pedals are USB MIDI devices. This should be no problem.

 

[Billyears IV]

All of our One Series pedals are USB MIDI devices. This should be no problem.

Yes thanks, I'm aware of one series capabilities..... It's just my own lack of know how to set things up through Ableton. And then how to control......

 

[Annette]

Yes thanks, I'm aware of one series capabilities..... It's just my own lack of know how to set things up through Ableton. And then how to control......

Go through steps 1-5 here, either going with midi din or usb midi as they explain in step one: Invalid Link Removed

Then "Create a clip on a midi track and enable the Envelope View [E], which is at the bottom of the Clip properties section. Enabling the Envelope view hides the Piano Roll view.
In the Envelope properties section, first drop-down choose "Midi Ctrl", and in the second drop-down choose the CC number you wish to draw.
Set your desired grid, hit "B" on your computer keyboard, and start drawing."

-> I copied this from sending midi cc messages to external hardware - Ableton Forum
, but that's how I've done it in the past.

 

[Billyears IV]

Go through steps 1-5 here, either going with midi din or usb midi as they explain in step one: Invalid Link Removed

Then "Create a clip on a midi track and enable the Envelope View [E], which is at the bottom of the Clip properties section. Enabling the Envelope view hides the Piano Roll view.
In the Envelope properties section, first drop-down choose "Midi Ctrl", and in the second drop-down choose the CC number you wish to draw.
Set your desired grid, hit "B" on your computer keyboard, and start drawing."

-> I copied this from sending midi cc messages to external hardware - Ableton Forum
, but that's how I've done it in the past.

Hey thanks!

So I went through steps 1-5 with external instrument, linking to my C4

Created a midi clip & did steps on env section:

But I just can't see what this relates to?? What am I aiming to 'draw' and for what purpose?

All I want to do initially, is to be able to use Ableton interface to switch through C4 preset patches 1 - 20 say, for live bass playing. I don't need to adjust C4 parameters using Ableton.
I could step through Ableton scenes/clips using a mapped footswitch, with each scene having been assigned to a different C4 preset, for example?

Or, my laptop has a touch screen, so just quickly touching a next preset link would be handy

Sorry but I find CC baffling, until I can understand what it is Im trying to set up. (I found Ableton baffling in the first stages, but got reasonably handy over time!!).

If theres some way of doing above then please kindly shed some light....

Many thanks!

 

[Annette]

Hey thanks!

So I went through steps 1-5 with external instrument, linking to my C4

View attachment 5125790


Created a midi clip & did steps on env section:

View attachment 5125793

But I just can't see what this relates to?? What am I aiming to 'draw' and for what purpose?

All I want to do initially, is to be able to use Ableton interface to switch through C4 preset patches 1 - 20 say, for live bass playing. I don't need to adjust C4 parameters using Ableton.
I could step through Ableton scenes/clips using a mapped footswitch, with each scene having been assigned to a different C4 preset, for example?

Or, my laptop has a touch screen, so just quickly touching a next preset link would be handy

Sorry but I find CC baffling, until I can understand what it is Im trying to set up. (I found Ableton baffling in the first stages, but got reasonably handy over time!!).

If theres some way of doing above then please kindly shed some light....

Many thanks!

It wasn't really clear what exactly you were trying to do. You had written that you want to "control" the C4 with Ableton.... so I dug up what I know you can do with Ableton to control external gear. You can change presets by first defining a CC number in the Neuro App to recall a Preset in "On" (or bypass). Lets say you take CC# 10 for that. Then you make your socalled dummy clip and draw a straight horizontal line at 127 for CC #10. Then whenever you hit "Play" for that clip or Scene in Ableton, it sends that message to the C4. Yes you can set up a footswitch and map it or use the dummy clips. You can also send a ramp or other shape for a dial of the C4 by drawing that shape into the dummy clip addressed to the respective CC - which, again, you can define in the Neuro App to do whatever you want. So yeah - still not sure what kind of answer you were hoping for before, but that's my input for now.

 

[Billyears IV]

It wasn't really clear what exactly you were trying to do. You had written that you want to "control" the C4 with Ableton.... so I dug up what I know you can do with Ableton to control external gear. You can change presets by first defining a CC number in the Neuro App to recall a Preset in "On" (or bypass). Lets say you take CC# 10 for that. Then you make your socalled dummy clip and draw a straight horizontal line at 127 for CC #10. Then whenever you hit "Play" for that clip or Scene in Ableton, it sends that message to the C4. Yes you can set up a footswitch and map it or use the dummy clips. You can also send a ramp or other shape for a dial of the C4 by drawing that shape into the dummy clip addressed to the respective CC - which, again, you can define in the Neuro App to do whatever you want. So yeah - still not sure what kind of answer you were hoping for before, but that's my input for now.

Hey really BIG THANKS for your time & input here......most appreciated!
Sorry I wasn't clear before.

Interesting what you outline here. I need to set time aside to test this through. Sounds its got massive potential.

So I "define a CC# in the Neuro App", using the MIDI Map editor?

And "draw a straight horizontal line at 127 for CC #10" would be referring to the env section of the dummy clip, as you first referred to?

I will need my digital interface (Scarlett i4) hooked up or will it work without?

Thanks again

 

[Annette]

Thanks again

All good, yeah midi can be pretty daunting, but once it "clicks" it opens a LOT of opportunities.

>>So I "define a CC# in the Neuro App", using the MIDI Map editor?
I am attaching a screen shot on where you find the spot in the Neuro app where you can assign specific functions to individual CC numbers for a specific pedal (I didn't hook anything up for this screenshot).

>>And "draw a straight horizontal line at 127 for CC #10" would be referring to the env section of the dummy clip, as you first referred to?
Yes you make that line in the envelope section. What you have to wrap your head around is that you're dealing with clips that work in "time" as in, they play for a bar or whatever length you have them set for. But you are not playing any notes in this case, just using the clip to send control data.
(The following is extra info that MIGHT sound confusing and you don't NEED to understand it for now, so I'll keep it in parentheses and italic: If you just want to send "RECALL PRESET" then that translates to the clips sending "CC #10 ON" and "on"=127. If you were to control let's say the frequency of a C4 filter, then (after defining that function for example CC #3 in the Neuro App) you could draw a line or curve in the clip that goes from 0-50-0-80-30-127 for CC #3. So here the CC values actually go from 0-127 (because they refer to a Frequency spectrum), whereas for a function like recalling a preset, it just needs On or OFF, and ON would be 127 (probably any number above 64, because that's half of the 127 available values).

Here is a video that could help with this, he uses a synth so he is sending both Note data as well as control data. Disregard the Note data and just see what he does with the control data through the envelope section of the clip.


>>I will need my digital interface (Scarlett i4) hooked up or will it work without?
You can just connect your C4 via USB as that sends/receives midi. No interface necessary.

Good luck! It'll make more sense at some point, promised

 

[joshofbass]

Give an example of what you are wanting to achieve. Like are you standing on stage pressing buttons on the laptop as you play? A click track that automatically switches presets in different song sections?

 

[Billyears IV]

Thanks but early days atm, as I don't know yet what can actually be controlled via ableton and in turn, what can be mapped to extra footswitches.
First step will be able to switch presets on/off, either on screen/or footswitch.
Later I can look how to build this into automation within ableton clips.
Down the line, how to adjust parameters of C4 presets, by methods mentioned above.

I don't want to buy into morning star, a hub, connectors, etc. My pedal board is nicely sorted for now.

Ive invested more into ableton and new band is making interesting music utilising the software. I was aware of potential but not practical steps. I've now got some reference to work on.....

 

[Felkara]

Maybe I should give a little more context. My switcher is a G3 Atom. It has 6 reorderable loops that can also have parallel sits and a 7th aux loop the if not being used for a tuner, can add another effect. The aux loop sits pre-buffer and sits before any splitting, and can’t be reordered. My thinking was that by splitting the c4 this way, I’d have some more options with how I effect my bass.

Predominantly, I would want to have most of my patches running through in/out 2, so I can take advantage of the parallel processing, rather than just the internal wet/dry mixer in the C4, with the option to use both inputs where I would want to split a synth patch and have, say, one side going into more dirt or filtering in my Spectrum and the other into time-based effects or similar.

I just feel like I’m missing something simple and that what I’m trying to do isn’t actually that complicated. Unless perhaps the complexity of the c4 means it is, and it’s either input 1 or nothing. It’s not the end of the world if so, as I can always rewire the board and just run into Loop 1 out of in/out 1 only, but would be a bit of a pain nonetheless.

I’m still no closer to getting to the bottom of this. Have emailed Support and await their judgement.

 

[Derek Williams]

I’m still no closer to getting to the bottom of this. Have emailed Support and await their judgement.

Have you tried just creating a simple preset that just routes your clean Input 1 -> Output 1 and Input 2 -> Output 2? Make sure both loops work independently and in series. Once you have that working you can try adding some synth effects. The preset you posted earlier only had routing for input/output 2, so I don’t think any signal would have passed through input/output 1.