source audio c4

[bassbrad]

did anyone get into the C4 with little to no midi experience? I have none, but would love to give this pedal a real shot

I am still after all these years a midi neophyte, I simply do not have the patience or money to dive in as much as I might desire. The user interface of step thru menus is no place for me ever again and honestly has no #$#$#$ reason to still exist in 2019, imho. Colour me wrong, I don't care.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

I am still after all these years a midi neophyte, I simply do not have the patience or money to dive in as much as I might desire. The user interface of step thru menus is no place for me ever again and honestly has no #$#$#$ reason to still exist in 2019, imho. Colour me wrong, I don't care.

I know how it works and find it a real pain the #$___&$##$. Kills creativity big time for me.

 

[bassbrad]

Kills creativity big time for me.

That's the reason for my resistance!! So many ideas get lost solving technical issues, it keeps me using luddite technology and techniques.

 

[4Mal]

did anyone get into the C4 with little to no midi experience? I have none, but would love to give this pedal a real shot

Yes. That would describe me... M'idiot...

Hopefully this sounds simple...
Midi is a communications mechanism.
Midi devices talk on channels within the mechanism. my C4 is on channel 1
Midi devices pay attention to Commend Control or CC (maybe Program Control or PC) messages on their channel, not other channels.
Midi devices (well the C4 and other Source Audio pedals) implement a 'Midi-Map'. The Midi Map basically maps a CC Message, to a Function on the pedal.

For the C4, the Functions I am using are
CC #102 - Bypass
CC #104 - Recall a Patch engaged.

There are two data segments in a CC message.
The first is the CC# of the function
The second, optional segment is what you want that function to do.

The bypass message is simply 102. The second segment is not necessary as Bypass is a binary thing. It's an on/off switch. There aren't degrees of bypass in other words.

The message to recall patch number 7, engaged is
104 7

In the Soleman Editor, you select a scene number, tell it to fire a macro. On the Right hand side, there is a place to create the macro. The macro consists of the message type CC, the Channel (1 for my C4 from above). The first Value (104 for recall engaged). The second value ( 6 for patch 7)...

Oops.. 6=7? Well if you start counting at 0, then 6 is the 7th patch...

That is pretty much it with the following disclaimer... I am going from memory. I have slept since I did this last night. I may have botched a detail in here somewhere. It should be pretty darned close...

The Soleman editor looks pretty intimidating. To accomplish what I wanted to, it just wasn't that hard...

 

[4Mal]

I know how it works and find it a real pain the #$___&$##$. Kills creativity big time for me.

That's the reason for my resistance!! So many ideas get lost solving technical issues, it keeps me using luddite technology and techniques.

i feel your pain. I was totally that way with ProTolls (pun intended). hated it... Partly though it was timing. I had a song idea that I wanted to get down. By the time I booted PT, my song idea was vapor... This is kinda different. Your creative energy is spent creating the patch(s). Once the patch is saved, then you can take some otherwise down time and create the command to trigger the patch. There is significantly less buzz-kill involved... at least for me.

I too have really avoided midi for the longest time. The C4 pushed me over the hump. In this case the hump wasn't so bad, though the UI / UX of the Soleman editor is way cluttered. Once I figured out that I really only need two small sections of the screen and that I could safely ignore the rest, things got better.

 

[BurningSkies]

To me it's not a 'creativity killer' as much as a useful tool on stage. Using one button to trigger a number of effects at a time, or changing multiple patches on different pedals is really useful. In terms of the actual sound building...that's less midi editing and more sound editing.

I have a couple ways to work...I may go into writing a song with an idea of what I think will work and sound cool and I'll work towards that (often across pedals). Other times its more a matter of playing or seeing what you can come up with, which may also provide writing inspiration.

I tend to sit down to either play or to work on sounds though. I don't know that you can do both. I don't dive into the deep end of the pool on a night I need to be either working on nailing down new material for our set or need to be running my fingers. But...I'll also know if there's a sound I've crafted that's not working right that I have to get in and do some editing.

The world of computer interfaces for pedals and MIDI controllers has made things WAY EASIER. My ES-5...I know enough on the hardware interface to make some basic edits and changes, but if I'm sitting to program patches with 5 loops and 4 MIDI pedals it's way easier on my laptop.

 

[bassbrad]

To me it's not a 'creativity killer' as much as a useful tool on stage. Using one button to trigger a number of effects at a time, or changing multiple patches on different pedals is really useful. In terms of the actual sound building...that's less midi editing and more sound editing.

I have a couple ways to work...I may go into writing a song with an idea of what I think will work and sound cool and I'll work towards that (often across pedals). Other times its more a matter of playing or seeing what you can come up with, which may also provide writing inspiration.

I tend to sit down to either play or to work on sounds though. I don't know that you can do both. I don't dive into the deep end of the pool on a night I need to be either working on nailing down new material for our set or need to be running my fingers. But...I'll also know if there's a sound I've crafted that's not working right that I have to get in and do some editing.

The world of computer interfaces for pedals and MIDI controllers has made things WAY EASIER. My ES-5...I know enough on the hardware interface to make some basic edits and changes, but if I'm sitting to program patches with 5 loops and 4 MIDI pedals it's way easier on my laptop.

I can see your POV especially for your gig, my needs are constantly changing from composing, recording and mixing sessions in my studio, other recording sessions and various gigs all needing different setups at times vastly different. Trying to manage that with a midi controller would take time I ain't got. If I were touring one band again then certainly.

 

[GMC]

I know how it works and find it a real pain the #$___&$##$. Kills creativity big time for me.

It kind of depends on what you call creativity. Dynamic knob twiddling isn't was Midi is about. Calling presets is what Midi is about. Most of the midi enabled effects units have a much larger suite of controls that what is available on the physical device. This is not midi - persey...but accessing a larger control menu that what's natively on the device. So in SA world...there's a phone or laptop app that one plugs in via USB and that's where the creativity comes in. Inventing personal sounds. Choosing which of the plethora of options get assigned to the device knobs. These then get saved as presets...which is where midi comes in. Once saved (upto 128 slots on the C4), use Midi (via a hub and a midi controller) to call the preset that you want from the list. These require a little bit of midi knowledge but not much. You can then send with the same midi message extras like switching the unit on etc.
H9 is almost impossible to drive outside of an app. Strymon has more knobs and doesn't have much of an external editor. SA kind of walks a path between these two. But the app is certainly the way to go with the SA stuff.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

It kind of depends on what you call creativity. Dynamic know twiddling isn't was Midi is about. Calling presets is what Midi is about. Most of the midi enabled effects units have a much larger suite of controls that what is available on the physical device. This is not midi - persey...but accessing a larger control menu that what's natively on the device. So in SA world...there's a phone or laptop app that one plugs in via USB and that's where the creativity comes in. Inventing personal sounds. Choosing which of the plethora of options get assigned to the device knobs. These then get saved as presets...which is where midi comes in. Once saved (upto 128 slots on the C4), use Midi (via a hub and a midi controller) to call the preset that you want from the list. These require a little bit of midi knowledge but not much. You can then send with the same midi message extras like switching the unit on etc.
H9 is almost impossible to drive outside of an app. Strymon has more knobs and doesn't have much of an external editor. SA kind of walks a path between these two. But the app is certainly the way to go with the SA stuff.

Good for you if it works. We all are different, that's what making music is all about. Would be boring if we all where the same.

But for me, if I want synth sound I use other methods that might not be "productive" for you.

Here's to being different and having fun!!!

 

[BurningSkies]

It kind of depends on what you call creativity. Dynamic knob twiddling isn't was Midi is about. Calling presets is what Midi is about. Most of the midi enabled effects units have a much larger suite of controls that what is available on the physical device. This is not midi - persey...but accessing a larger control menu that what's natively on the device. So in SA world...there's a phone or laptop app that one plugs in via USB and that's where the creativity comes in. Inventing personal sounds. Choosing which of the plethora of options get assigned to the device knobs. These then get saved as presets...which is where midi comes in. Once saved (upto 128 slots on the C4), use Midi (via a hub and a midi controller) to call the preset that you want from the list. These require a little bit of midi knowledge but not much. You can then send with the same midi message extras like switching the unit on etc.
H9 is almost impossible to drive outside of an app. Strymon has more knobs and doesn't have much of an external editor. SA kind of walks a path between these two. But the app is certainly the way to go with the SA stuff.

Yeah, and honestly the MIDI on the C4 doesn't have to be used...as long as you like 6 patches. Or you could use it minimally (DMC Micro or DA MIDI Baby with one switch).

I look at my Timeline, and the web app is a more convenient interface for moving patches around or editing and saving them, but for the most part...it's a reproduction of the pedal interface...Strymon decided to give user control at pedal level, which is fine if you have a large pedal and don't mind 91754964564894165 knobs on it. The C4 and the FI take a different approach, giving way more controlability (IF you desire).

I think people are sort of in a state with this technology where lots of people are confusing 'it has MIDI' with 'it has computer editing faculties'.

With the C4 v. other envelope filters it may be a little more work 'in the moment' to dial it in. With the C4 compared to other modern synth pedals it ends up being about the same. I play with a keyboard player who also has multiple Moogs on stage and in the studio. They have lots of controls 'at hand' on the interface, but I'm not sure than ends up being any easier once you're crafting complex sounds.

 

[bassbrad]

For some things I am doing I will be taking advantage of the Neuro program and others by way of a netbook that I will be using to send midi changes via usb to several Source Audio, Zoom and TC Electronic pedals. For me that just appears easier than trying to code it into a midi device plus what I am doing is constantly evolving, not recalling set sounds or combinations.

 

[remcult]

I honestly appreciate the varied responses, as with so much of this stuff I won’t really know unless I dive into it and give midi a shot.

I know this has come up before, but in terms of midi controllers: it seems (to me, definitely a neophyte) like the Morningstar mc6 is more intuitive and takes up less space, but the Boss ES line has an advantage in that it allows you to trigger multiple pedals for layered effects, which the Morningstar doesn’t? Is this accurate or am I totally off-base

 

[NicJimBass]

I honestly appreciate the varied responses, as with so much of this stuff I won’t really know unless I dive into it and give midi a shot.

I know this has come up before, but in terms of midi controllers: it seems (to me, definitely a neophyte) like the Morningstar mc6 is more intuitive and takes up less space, but the Boss ES line has an advantage in that it allows you to trigger multiple pedals for layered effects, which the Morningstar doesn’t? Is this accurate or am I totally off-base

To my understanding, the MC6 is a MIDI controller only, whereas the ES line does that, and are loop pedals as well, meaning you have the ability to turn effects loops on and off, as desired. Not only that, but you can change the order of the loops and some other crazy stuff.

 

[GisserD]

Changing the order of pedals cant fully be appreciated until you have tried an es.
Standard pedal order convention goes out the window because its sooo easy to try things, save them and compare.
It's a game changer imho.

 

[BurningSkies]

Yeah, they're definitely different pedals. The Morningstar from what I've read here isn't necessarily an easy start in that there's a fair amount of programming to be done to set it up and get your rig up and running? Disaster Area DMC stuff is just the opposite, where you can pick pedals from a menu and it is programmed for most of the common ones already. Then you can build presets based on which patches you want or not.

But yes, the ES units are loop switching; allowing you to connect non-midi pedals then build patches of those AND control midi pedals at the same time. It also allows for you to move the pedals around in order so you can do 1-2-3-4-5 or you can do 2-4-1-3 or whatever or you can do parallel stuff so maybe 1 and 3 in parallel, or even clean in parallel with effect (I use this one fairly often).

So you can select midi-pedal-1/PatchWhatever + pedal 4 + pedal 2 etc.

 

[remcult]

Great, exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[4Mal]

has anyone attempt to hack a C4 backup file ? I had a look and it appears as though it would be pretty easy to change the order of your patches and then restore. I'm going to give that a shot later today as I have stuff kinda scattered...

Yes, I know I could setup a List in the Soleman but this seems more daring ;-)

 

[4Mal]

Is there a way to set an HPF on a given patch in the C4... I'm thinking of a ripping loud sub octave that kicks in at 80 to 120...

 

[VT Pete]

I’m looking for a great C4 preset time emulate patch 6 on the Future impact. Can anyone recommend one for me? Thanks!

 

[Mtumi]

@Rrusse18
@scopes

I have the same 3 pedals (stomp, c4, micro.ghost) and I only just got the ghost. It hasn't been working for me either, and I'll try the firmware update, but I was using channel 4 so not sure that it will address it.

If you have had any luck and have any advice, please share.

Thanks!

Michael

Hey, I have a very similar setup! HX Stomp, Morningstar, C4, and the new micro.ghost.

I had the same initial issue because I wanted to put the midi channel to the C4 on channel 3, but it wasn’t working.
I contacted Disaster Area, and they informed me that there was a glitch and that a firmware update was coming soon. (The glitch was that channels 2 and 3 on the micro.ghost are reversed from the manual description)

They already have the firmware out and I did the update. It all runs smoothly now!


From my email with them...

“Firmware update tools are here:
disasterareadesigns.com/files

And here’s a video showing the update procedure with the MIDI Baby. The steps are the same with the ghost, except you must flip SW8 (far right) before inserting the USB cable to start the bootloader.



Once you’ve updated you should find that the DIP switches agree with the text on the lid and in the manual.”

I hope that helps!