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source audio c4

Can anyone help me diagnose a problem I'm having getting my C4 to do what I want?

I'm trying to create a simple octave-up effect to use with my bass so I can also play in the guitar range a la Royal Blood. (I do plan to add distortion via the C4 or my Aftershock.) When I use a single voice set to Monophonic Pitch 1 or 2, set the octave to +1, then send that voice directly to the output, I get almost no effect. With the virtual level knob on that voice cranked all the way up and the physical mix knob all the way up, I can barely hear the higher octave. As a result, there's almost no change when I switch the pedal on or off. (I should mention that I've also turned the Filtering virtual knob for that voice to maximum.) If I use the Polyphonic Pitch 1 or 2, I get the effect I'd expect, with a higher octave that I can hear pretty well. Since I will be playing single notes, I'm suspect I'd get better performance out of the monophonic pitch shift, though.

I've tried looking at community presents that use monophonic pitch and one octave up, and every time, once I turn off any other voices, I get the same behavior: the monophonic octave up is almost inaudible. Switching to polyphonic gives me an audible octave up.

I've been careful to check that I don't have the pitch-shifted voice level way down using the physical knobs if they are assigned to allow that.

Am I doing something stupidly wrong, or is it possible the monophonic pitch shifter in my C4 isn't working.

Thank you for your help.
Can anyone help me diagnose a problem I'm having getting my C4 to do what I want?

I'm trying to create a simple octave-up effect to use with my bass so I can also play in the guitar range a la Royal Blood. (I do plan to add distortion via the C4 or my Aftershock.) When I use a single voice set to Monophonic Pitch 1 or 2, set the octave to +1, then send that voice directly to the output, I get almost no effect. With the virtual level knob on that voice cranked all the way up and the physical mix knob all the way up, I can barely hear the higher octave. As a result, there's almost no change when I switch the pedal on or off. (I should mention that I've also turned the Filtering virtual knob for that voice to maximum.) If I use the Polyphonic Pitch 1 or 2, I get the effect I'd expect, with a higher octave that I can hear pretty well. Since I will be playing single notes, I'm suspect I'd get better performance out of the monophonic pitch shift, though.

I've tried looking at community presents that use monophonic pitch and one octave up, and every time, once I turn off any other voices, I get the same behavior: the monophonic octave up is almost inaudible. Switching to polyphonic gives me an audible octave up.

I've been careful to check that I don't have the pitch-shifted voice level way down using the physical knobs if they are assigned to allow that.

Am I doing something stupidly wrong, or is it possible the monophonic pitch shifter in my C4 isn't working.

Thank you for your help.

You are not doing anything, you have simply discovered a limitation of the beast. The Monophonic octave is modeled on analog octavers, the down octaves are round phat and nasty but the upper octaves are a bit quieter & thin without adding distortion. The Polyphonic Pitch is more accurate but does have a bit of latency and again sounds best with some distortion and filtering.

As far as a 'Royal Blood' type sound out of the C4 I would not say Impossible, perhaps someone more clever than I can do it.
 
I assume you have messed with the Sensitivity/Input Gain controls?

You are not doing anything, you have simply discovered a limitation of the beast.

rsmith601 confirmed bassbrad's point in the C4 thread on TheGearPage.net. He also suggested using an oscillator, rather than a pitch-shifted input. I have a Micro POG that I've been using for this effect, but I was hoping to use the C4 so that I could eventually use the Soleman and Neuro Hub to control scene switching. I guess I'll continue to use the POG for now.
 
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rsmith601 confirmed bassbrad's point in the C4 thread on TheGearPage.net. He also suggested using an oscillator, rather than a pitch-shifted input. I have a Micro POG that I've been using for this effect, but I was hoping to use the C4 so that I could eventually use the Soleman and Neuro Hub to control scene switching. I guess I'll continue to use the POG for now.
I use an Akai UniBass and a TRex Quint Machine for that effect along with various drive pedals. I don't play In a duo at the moment* but those sounds are useful in the power trios I play in.

*My drummer and I get paid EXTRA not to sing!!
 
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rsmith601 confirmed bassbrad's point in the C4 thread on TheGearPage.net. He also suggested using an oscillator, rather than a pitch-shifted input. I have a Micro POG that I've been using for this effect, but I was hoping to use the C4 so that I could eventually use the Soleman and Neuro Hub to control scene switching. I guess I'll continue to use the POG for now.
Cool- Like I said, I haven’t messed with making sounds much nor even looking at how users have created the sounds I’ve used. The upper-octave sounds I’ve tried from the community must have been from the Polyphonic pitch (or had other effects/voices added for thickness, because I’m fairly sure I heard some that were monophonic and sounded good after dialing in the sensitivity). I’ve been using the EHX Pitchfork after my C4 to good effect, but it sounds pretty similar to a Micro Pog (just capable of more tuning intervals and expression control).
 
I'll have to play around with that once my C4 gets here. I've been thinking to run my Nano Pog in front of the C4. I usually run the Nano Pog followed by Darkglass Duality. I haven't used it much with filters and stuff. Plenty of joyful experimentation on the horizon!
 
I've been using the C4 with Morningstar MC6 MkII and the ghost.micro device today and all is fine so far after some fiddling. On the MC6 I enabled preset scroll up and down for the C4, but it's not much use to me with/out being able to see the name of the presets or know where I am in the preset list. The IOS app doesn't tell me what my presets names are. This may be mitigated by me getting more familiar with the sound of and order of my presets but for now it's an annoyance. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!
 
I've been using the C4 with Morningstar MC6 MkII and the ghost.micro device today and all is fine so far after some fiddling. On the MC6 I enabled preset scroll up and down for the C4, but it's not much use to me with/out being able to see the name of the presets or know where I am in the preset list. The IOS app doesn't tell me what my presets names are. This may be mitigated by me getting more familiar with the sound of and order of my presets but for now it's an annoyance. Am I doing something wrong? Thanks!

You're not doing anything wrong. Don't know of any controller that shows patch names like that. I think everyone would be on board. Remember, your pedal isn't sending MIDI back to the controller, only one direction.

For patches that you're using regularly rather than scrolling, name 'em in the controller that way.
 
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Really good point. Just wish that there was some means to have the # of the MC6 preset change so that I can keep track of the changes that I’ve made.

The nice thing about the Future Impact is that while its display is pretty rudimentary, it does show the patch number...and you do get used to which numbers mean which things.

Similarly my Timeline and Atmosphere tell you what patch you have loaded at any given time.
 
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Yeah, these two from a few pages back... I did go and edit one thing and it was a hitching point for me in terms of the signal flow. Remember that the editor isn't necessarily set up to match the signal flow. By nature (as it's an 'if-then' situation in a few places...
The path your signal takes ends up being:
INPUT->VOICE(s) ->ENVELOPE-> DRIVE ->FILTER->OUTPUT

So, for instance the 'envelope' component is lower (below the drive & Filter components) on the interface, as are some of the other 'control' modules like the sequencer and the LFO setup.

Have a Xerograph Deluxe, Joshwah, 3Leaf Proton and a few others... There can be a good amount of learning curve to get what you want out of them too. I don't doubt that much of what they have to offer can be done with the C4; at least to the point of 'no one else but me will notice the differences'.

TBH, I had a hard enough time getting a 'straight envelope filter tone' out of the Xerograph that I used it for swept stunt-envelope for over a year before I found a way to do it. Once I did find it I decided that I'd rather have a second filter on my board so I didn't have to twist knobs to do different things. Now I do those plus a few with the C4.

It helps to know what you're trying to design for if you're going that route...For instance, most of the filters I was using were 4-pole so that was my starting point. I also knew what I fed them with, the XD with a fairly aggressive fuzz, the Joshwah is fed by a more conservative OD, a third one I originally used a Fulltone Full-drive.

This block diagram is fairly accurate:
View attachment 3592936


But I'd start out by thinking:
INPUT->VOICE(s) ->ENVELOPE-> DRIVE ->FILTER->OUTPUT

For any straight up envelope filter design. Pawin' through the filter styles and types may take you a bit, but for a basic easy filter I'd pick

VOICE 1 (only) -> PAN all the way left (sends all the signal to one processor) ->use Drive 1 (if wanted) ->Filter 1 -> Envelope 1 (if wanted) .

Those are sort of the basic components of an envelope filter. But to break it down a bit:

(photos are from the earlier version of the editor, so some stuff isn't quite the same)

***Note, it helps if you've at least roughly set your sensitivity control so you can trigger the filters, even if you're not fully dialed. Use someone elses' envelope preset to do that first.

Start and end here:
View attachment 3592961

Input gain you set to your bass. Use the pedal and make note of what the setting ends up being (the numerical value)...start with that number ever time on your Input 1 Gain.

Master Depth With one filter you don't need to mess with this. With two filters it adjusts both but keeps them in scale. Feel free to ignore for single filter design.

Bass & Treble controls screw around with these AFTER you've designed your envelope filter.

Mix: Go all wet when you're designing your filter so you can hear exactly what it's doing...add in dry later, once you've got your filter tone designed.

Low Retain (now a knob): crossover control...split out the low stuff, keep it clean apply everything you're doing in your filter above that point. If your filter had a ton of depth, this may help you not swamp things. Feel like your filter is killin' your low end presence, use this control.

Output Volume: Seems pretty self explanatory. You'll want to adjust this when you're done. I like mine to be at unity or maybe little bit more so it can be present in a live mix in a band.

Next here Find your Voice:
View attachment 3592980

-Set Voice 1 to ON (button top left)
-Mono Input 1 (where your signal is coming from). Other options are more for synth use or doing generated tones like octave pedal effects.
-Envelope; on or off, filter without envelope will open or close based upon signal but the envelope lets you shape the filter's opening and closing, fast/slow, swelled volume or ASDR options.
-Destination is where you're directing the signal. No distortion? Go right to filter. Distortion? set for Filter + Distortion
-Processor Pan: There are two processors (distortion/filters) the pan knob directs your signal to one, the other or both. Crank it all the way to the left (Processor 1).
-Level control I don't generally mess with until closer to the end when I'm figuring what levels I want signals to hit other stages.

Simple envelope filter? Turn off ALL the other voices. Feel free to ignore them.

Next up clean or dirty:

View attachment 3592996

If you've chosen to get 'dirty,' this is where you're headed, otherwise skip this step. Make sure first off, it's ON. You'll see that voice one will have the full yellow bar in the little mixer window on the left, the others should have nothing. That's controlled from the PAN control in the Voice panel.

-Drop down: your pick...which distortion, fuzz, OD option do you want. They all sound different, some are brighter or darker or whatever so you do need to check em' with your bass. You may find that once you combine with a filter you like, you don't like it so much and you go back and try some others. Note, filters LIKE harmonic content. You may find dirtying up your tone even just a little gives your filter something to 'grab ahold of' and give you more of what you want.

-Drive: The amount of distortion.

-Clean mix: Wait...this is just like using a distortion pedal, I know what that means.

- Output: Drive goes up (gain) output can come down so you're not blasting the next stage. ;)

Next...the moment you've been waiting for...the filter:
View attachment 3593005

...also ON correct? ;) So...here's where MUCH of your sound design is going to come from. You'll still have that Voice 1 on the left hand side filled yellow (getting your voice one feed whether through distortion or not).

-Drop down: Filter types. A TON of options here. If you're replicating something it's good to know what the original design was. Most basic classics are 2-pole, many modern classics are 4-pole but it's well worth pulling through and hearing how they all differ.

-Invert button: Like that funky Bootsy reverse filter that dives? Click it dawg.

-Depth: how much sweep does your filter have. What's the width it will travel from open to close? Set that here.

-Frequency: Sets the overall frequency of the filter play and sweep and you'll find the place you want. It gives you the starting point of if you're going dark and swampy or something more mid-treble heavy. Remember it works in tandem with the Depth control, which will be how MUCH sweep you have.

Q: Resonant peak: This is where you get the filter emphasis. Soft and subtle or quacky or edgy/reedy. Sometimes you have to balance the filter type with the Q to get things to do what you want.

Destination (unknown): Make sure this is set to 'on' too or it's goin' nowhere. Where are you sending the signal when it's all said and done? Pick your outputs here.


Shaping the Envelope to your filter:

View attachment 3593016

Kinda makes sense, looking at it right? We know what the sensitivity control does. Work this with your bass to figure out how to trigger it best for your dynamics.

Drop Down: Audio Input: This is the actual pedal input you're using, most of us will use Input 1 unless you've got other routing things happening (stereo, loops, etc).

Drop Down: Envelope Types: There's a bunch of attack/release options and in name they tell you what the speed knob does. Some of them will control one or the other or both. Time to play around with 'em. There's also some other stuff like Swell (volume swell) and the ADSR (Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release) settings, which are more meant for the Synth stuff but CAN be used with the filters to fun effect. Play around with them and tweak at will.

Gate: Generally used for the Synth and keyed to help the oscillators' functioning.


...now go back to the general/universal controls and tweak. Fuss your wet/dry, adjust your output level. Play with that retain lows & the master bass/treble controls. :)

Done.
 
Yeah, these two from a few pages back... I did go and edit one thing and it was a hitching point for me in terms of the signal flow. Remember that the editor isn't necessarily set up to match the signal flow. By nature (as it's an 'if-then' situation in a few places...
The path your signal takes ends up being:
INPUT->VOICE(s) ->ENVELOPE-> DRIVE ->FILTER->OUTPUT

So, for instance the 'envelope' component is lower (below the drive & Filter components) on the interface, as are some of the other 'control' modules like the sequencer and the LFO setup.
Oh man, perfect! Exactly what I was after!
 
This will be a change of pace. I remember someone here posting a video of a pattern tremolo preset a while back, anyone know if that user uploaded it to the community?
 
@BurningSkies

Thanks for the great write-up. You're clearly focused on a straight-up envelope filter sound. Do you know of a similar tutorial for more synthy tones? I'm trying to build a preset using a monophonic pitch down 1 octave and a square wave at the input pitch for what I would call a basic synth sound, but it's just not turning out well.

Thanks again.
 
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@BurningSkies

Thanks for the great write-up. You're clearly focused on a straight-up envelope filter sound. Do you know of a similar tutorial for more synthy tones? I'm trying to build a preset using a monophonic pitch down 1 octave and a square wave at the input pitch for what I would call a basic synth sound, but it's just not turning out well.

Thanks again.

I haven't had a chance to dig deeply into that side...I know the Envelope side because to get it on my board and up and running I had to come close to 3 envelope sounds I was already using with other filters. The only thing I've done is a hybrid, 4 pole envelope filter with expression swept frequency then I have two extra voices that are sine waves 1 & 2 octaves down to provide some clean deep lows.

Though maybe if you can describe what's going on or where you think it's going off the tracks for you, people here can help?
 
I'm using my C4 with a MC6 MKII...has anyone noticed annoying crackling/popping noises when engaging presets using with the MC6? It doesn't happen with my Future Impact or H9. Is there a setting I can change in the pedal or Midi controller?
 
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