Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[DeadPoet]

I know the Source Audio guys are busy with about a billion things, but now that this problem has been replicated, maybe they can take a look at fixing the Hub firmware...

(sorry for spamming this thread)


Problem went away. I've rearranged my pedalboard so that the HUB is now on midi channel 1 - reloaded the hub via USB with my saved patches and it seems to behave as it should. Been testing with sending it some midi PC's, CC's and other stuff and it seems to be working, software and all.


Now off to making patches and more importantly: music.


Herwig

 

[Adamixoye]

(sorry for spamming this thread)


Problem went away. I've rearranged my pedalboard so that the HUB is now on midi channel 1 - reloaded the hub via USB with my saved patches and it seems to behave as it should. Been testing with sending it some midi PC's, CC's and other stuff and it seems to be working, software and all.


Now off to making patches and more importantly: music.


Herwig

Even with MIDI clock?

 

[DeadPoet]

Even with MIDI clock?

midi clock out is ON for my boss switcher, yes. Haven't found if I could control a Manta's speed via midi clock though..

expression information is being passed on with succes (being: Roland EV-5 -> exp pedal input on Boss Es-8 -> exp pedal output on ES-8 -> SA midi hub exp pedal input), saving in the HUB manager works as well.

 

[FretNoMore]

midi clock out is ON for my boss switcher, yes. Haven't found if I could control a Manta's speed via midi clock though..

I'm not sure if the Manta does react to MIDI clock, but if it does you need to set the pedal to tap tempo mode for it to listen to the MIDI clock.

 

[DeadPoet]

I'm not sure if the Manta does react to MIDI clock, but if it does you need to set the pedal to tap tempo mode for it to listen to the MIDI clock.

Success with this method! (manta manual p15 to set up a pedal for tap tempo) My Manta now listens to midi clock (generated by the switcher) - not that I need that (at this moment) but it's nice to know it could if I wanted it to.


Happy camper after two days of frustrated searching, programming and looking for answers. Only thing left in my big master plan is the Boss SY-300...

 

[rsmith601]

Here is some Reflex/H9 connection work from Jesse:


The H9 and Factor pedals do some odd things with expression pedals. I’m not sure why eventide chose such a different way to do it especially since I don’t think they make their own expression pedal.

My experimental results are as follows:

Set up the Reflex using expression output 3 (50k pot) with the DIP switches in SINGLE mode and using a normal mono guitar cable to make the connection. I also set the taper of the pedal to Audio instead of Linear. When I do this, I get a good response and the values on the H9 go from 17 to 100. For some reason, I’m not able to go below 17, even though I can measure the voltage on the plug and it does indeed go to zero. I believe there is some internal calibration on the H9 but I’m not sure how it works and I didn’t invest much time in digging into it. Or there is some expression control minimum value that is stuck on 17.

As a point of comparison, I also took a regular 25k potentiometer and wired it directly to the H9 and I got the EXACT same results as above with the Reflex. 25k is actually what they recommend but I was also not able to the full 0-100 range. Although the LED display on the Hot Knob seems to go to the bottom end of the range.


Given that I’m getting the same results on the Reflex and the direct 25k pot, I concluded that the limited range is something inherent to the H9.

If anybody has done any additional digging on the H9 expression pedal functionality, please let us know!

 

[benevan]

I have H9 and Reflex but have not completely tested out the Reflex with everything. Hopefully I will get to it this week.

I have used both the m-audio and Roland expression pedals with the H9 with good success, goes from 0-100, so I don't think it is an issue with the H9 in general - could be an issue with your test H9? Definitely hope this is not an issue with the Reflex.

I don't know the details of the Roland and M-Audio pedals such as the pot value and taper, but they both have TRS plugs and a secondary pot to adjust the value.

 

[Adamixoye]

Here is some Reflex/H9 connection work from Jesse:


The H9 and Factor pedals do some odd things with expression pedals. I’m not sure why eventide chose such a different way to do it especially since I don’t think they make their own expression pedal.

My experimental results are as follows:

Set up the Reflex using expression output 3 (50k pot) with the DIP switches in SINGLE mode and using a normal mono guitar cable to make the connection. I also set the taper of the pedal to Audio instead of Linear. When I do this, I get a good response and the values on the H9 go from 17 to 100. For some reason, I’m not able to go below 17, even though I can measure the voltage on the plug and it does indeed go to zero. I believe there is some internal calibration on the H9 but I’m not sure how it works and I didn’t invest much time in digging into it. Or there is some expression control minimum value that is stuck on 17.

As a point of comparison, I also took a regular 25k potentiometer and wired it directly to the H9 and I got the EXACT same results as above with the Reflex. 25k is actually what they recommend but I was also not able to the full 0-100 range. Although the LED display on the Hot Knob seems to go to the bottom end of the range.


Given that I’m getting the same results on the Reflex and the direct 25k pot, I concluded that the limited range is something inherent to the H9.

If anybody has done any additional digging on the H9 expression pedal functionality, please let us know!

Roger, as you know I was doing some testing with the Factor pedals. I've now moved onto some H9s. For the Factors, the results were somewhat erratic, but generally consistent with what Jesse describes here. Occasionally I wouldn't get the full range. But restarting I would sometimes get slightly different results. Like Jesse, I had better results with the audio taper than the linear taper. I was able at times to get the full range from 0 to 100, but not robustly.

In the H9 control app there is a setting for auto-calibration of the expression pedal. I have not played around with this.

Honestly, though, unless someone has other critical uses for the MIDI outs, people should just be using MIDI with the Eventides.

 

[morebassbaby]

Given that I’m getting the same results on the Reflex and the direct 25k pot, I concluded that the limited range is something inherent to the H9.

If anybody has done any additional digging on the H9 expression pedal functionality, please let us know!

I have a Mission 25k and have been getting the same results with my H9. Very jumpy, values starting somewhere in the middle and going to 100. Very frustrating. I have a Reflex on order so I'm excited to try your suggestions!

 

[LSMFT6]

I haven't gotten around to testing the H9 with the Reflex but I previously used the Mission 25k and it worked flawlessly (used the secondly output to control the Manta via the Hub), I'll post my findings.

I think this might have already been covered but can the Reflex act as a conventional expression pedal for the H9 using just MIDI?

 

[Adamixoye]

I think this might have already been covered but can the Reflex act as a conventional expression pedal for the H9 using just MIDI?

Honestly, though, unless someone has other critical uses for the MIDI outs, people should just be using MIDI with the Eventides.

That is to say, it works great that way. I think it's admirable that Source Audio is still looking for the best way to make this pedal work with the Eventides, but I think the combination of their (understandable) design choice to go with 10k [x2] and 50k pots and the quirks of the Eventides means this is going to be difficult. And with the MIDI solution right there, it really shouldn't be an issue for most people.

 

[gastric]

You can program THREE separate and independently performing MIDI CC out of the Reflex, so there's a lot of potential solutions available. And it's output via the DIN and USB.

 

[CRich0205]

After reading a thousand posts so far I ordered an OFF today and I'm super excited. After selling a bunch of stuff to buy an old ampeg V4B I think it's time to get a board back together and all the midi stuff is really peaking my interest now.

 

[benevan]

I have the Reflex hooked up to the H9 via the expression output 3 and TRS cable and it is working just fine. I made no adjustments to the dip switches which are set to Normal mode, nor did I change the taper setting. As a point of reference, I hooked up the M-Audio EXP and I get the exact same results. For Pitchflex settings the full sweep of the pedal goes from 0-100 for both M-Audio and Reflex.

I do notice some "wobble" or "dancing" at the extremes when foot is off of the pedal, where the value bounces around a few points (0-2 or 98-100) but this goes away when pressure is applied. I assume this may have to do with the mechanical stop of the pedal so it could be adjusted?

To Adam's point, midi control of EXP would also work, but for me, I am only using midi to make PC changes and (at this time) am not really interested in a more complex set up, so the EXP function works much better for me. I could see advantage of using midi EXP connection for simple setups (1 or 2 pedals only plus the H9) where you may also want to connect a separate 3-button aux switch. This way you could have a both expression and aux switch with the H9 like with the Factor series, rather than one or the other.

 

[Adamixoye]

@benevan the Reflex does MIDI merge so if you've already got MIDI going into your H9, you can just plug that source into the Reflex and then daisy-chain to the M9. Set the channel and CC #'s on both units and you're good to go. Really no downside (and more reliable IMO) if you're not using that MIDI for anything else.

 

[benevan]

I picked up the Vertigo primarily for my guitar board, but have been messing around with it a lot on bass. While the iPhone app is OK, I much prefer the hub interface, so I hooked it up to my Soundblox Hub.

The hub did not recognize the Vertigo, so I checked the SA website and noticed the firmware version of 1.13 available so I updated the hub, and it´s there – cool!!

Dragged the Vertigo into a scene and clicked to edit. I think there is a problem…

It clearly indicates Vertigo, but the controls are for the Orbital.

Does the hub manager not yet support the Vertigo control scheme?

 

[Nic.]

hi! i have a question: i have mwbd, manta, ofd, orbital, reverb + hub, is it possible sync the tempo in a "exact" way? on the manta, orbital and dimension you have the knob and the tempo light, but, for example, if i have to play with playback/vst/pc/etc. and i have to use a flanger with perfect sync, what i have to do? i have seen that with solemate you can control the tempo sync of all the pedals with tap tempo with bpm on the screen (and that's why i want to buy it!) but i'm in europe and i have to wait to long for it i guess... now what can i do in the meantime?

ps: for the source audio members, is it possible update the hub manager with the tempo/time/speed in "number" and not in "knob form"?

I asked this a while back, and got an answer from... I think it was probably @rsmith601 but I can't be sure since I just copied it into my email inbox.

MIDI CC LFO Tempo (BPM)
0 6.0768
1 6.5736
2 7.0704
3 7.5672
4 8.064
5 8.568
6 9.072
7 9.576
8 10.08
9 10.656
10 11.232
11 11.808
12 12.384
13 13.032
14 13.68
15 14.328
16 14.976
17 15.696
18 16.416
19 17.136
20 17.856
21 18.648
22 19.44
23 20.232
24 21.024
25 21.96
26 22.896
27 23.832
28 24.768
29 25.92
30 27.072
31 28.224
32 29.376
33 30.744
34 32.112
35 33.48
36 34.848
37 36.432
38 38.016
39 39.6
40 41.184
41 42.912
42 44.64
43 46.368
44 48.096
45 50.04
46 51.984
47 53.928
48 55.872
49 58.032
50 60.192
51 62.352
52 64.512
53 67.032
54 69.552
55 72.072
56 74.592
57 77.112
58 79.632
59 82.152
60 84.672
61 87.552
62 90.432
63 93.312
64 96.192
65 99.792
66 103.392
67 106.992
68 110.592
69 114.912
70 119.232
71 123.552
72 127.872
73 133.272
74 138.672
75 144.072
76 149.472
77 156.024
78 162.576
79 169.128
80 175.68
81 183.6
82 191.52
83 199.44
84 207.36
85 216.72
86 226.08
87 235.44
88 244.8
89 255.6
90 266.4
91 277.2
92 288
93 299.52
94 311.04
95 322.56
96 334.08
97 349.2
98 364.32
99 379.44
100 394.56
101 413.28
102 432
103 450.72
104 469.44
105 493.92
106 518.4
107 542.88
108 567.36
109 596.88
110 626.4
111 655.92
112 685.44
113 723.6
114 761.76
115 799.92
116 838.08
117 882
118 925.92
119 969.84
120 1013.76
121 1064.16
122 1114.56
123 1164.96
124 1215.36
125 1215.36
126 1215.36
127 1215.36

Useful if you're going exactly according to click/backing tracks. So if you want it going at 100bpm you'll set the number to around 65 or so.

 

[adamaarts]

I picked up the Vertigo primarily for my guitar board, but have been messing around with it a lot on bass. While the iPhone app is OK, I much prefer the hub interface, so I hooked it up to my Soundblox Hub.

The hub did not recognize the Vertigo, so I checked the SA website and noticed the firmware version of 1.13 available so I updated the hub, and it´s there – cool!!

Dragged the Vertigo into a scene and clicked to edit. I think there is a problem…

It clearly indicates Vertigo, but the controls are for the Orbital.

Does the hub manager not yet support the Vertigo control scheme?

Interesting. Does trying to apply any of those 'orbital' settings work? I'd be interested in doing that if it does.

@rsmith601 I have an email waiting for you guys at [email protected] regarding a Neuro app thing with the vertigo, haven't heard back yet. But also wanted to add, does the routing of the inputs/outputs only apply when the effect is engaged? I tried using it to combine a dry and a wet signal, but it'll only utilize input 1 unless the pedal is engaged. I can work around this by just keeping the depth off, but if I don't have to set it up that way that'd be even better.

I have a really crazy sound I will share tomorrow once I have time to sit and record. It's basically a Syb-5 split dry and wet, dry into an OC2, OFD, Manta, then to input 2 of The Vertigo. Wet input input 1 of vertigo. Then I use the Dual expression pedal to simultaneously control parameters on the SYB, Manta, and Vertigo.

 

[dunic]

fixed. thanks FretNoMore

 

[FretNoMore]

Looks like the right preset has tap tempo enabled, so yes, it's working as it should.