Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Alien8]

I have a question for you, and any other ES-8 owners here, regarding the ES-8, the AS, and routing options.

I understand that you can create a parallel signal within the ES-8 and I see that the physical I/O on Loop 7 consists of 1 mono Input and Stereo L/R Outputs for running a stereo output.

With the parallel routing ability in the ES-8 is it possible to create a signal chain as follows:

Out - 8 -- 3 -- 2 -- 7 - 1 - In
Out - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4 -/

(signal splits after the AS in loop 7. I hope this makes sense)​

I would like to be able to use the AS itself to split my signal, run two parallel signal paths from the Stereo output of the AS, insert other Loops along those paths, and then recombine them into the Stereo L/R Inputs on Loop 8 to finish the signal chain.
I enjoy running different dirts parallel and the AS can do that inside of itself but I don't have a way of rearranging the pedals in each parallel signal.

What I'm looking for is a modular solution where I can run, for example, Tube tone from the AS along one signal path into an envelope filter pedal and RAT tone along a parallel path into another envelope filter, and then switch to a patch where I have a Clean tone with highs rolled offinto an octave while running parallel to a muff tone also from the AS.

I've been watching tons of videos and doing homework on the ES-8 but I haven't been able to figure this out for sure. Are there limitations that I don't know about here as far as creating parallel signal chains in the ES-8?

Gotcha thanks. Why wouldn't the way I describe work?

The Boss ES-8 loop 7 and 8 are forced to work together and tied to a single stereo or mono option. When set to stereo, you cannot mix back a mono loop on each side. I was hoping you could use the dual input to get what you want, but not that way either - the inputs are selectable, but not active together.

It does look like you will need to send to the AS using one loop, and the return will likely have to go to a secon loop as mentioned. You *might* be able to use the RTN on the volume loop to setup a dual routing, but I can't tell from the manual, so likely a big might.

So loop 1 sends to AS, loop 1 rtn gets 1 output, and loop 2 rtn gets the other output. Then you have to use one of the mixers to split the signal, and put loop 2 first in one side of the parallel chain. It doesn't matter where the split happens, just that loop 2 is first in it's parallel chain.

Depending how the volume loop actually works, and how you can route it, you might be able to use it for the second output, but I'm guessing that you can't parallel it.

 

[GisserD]

Gotcha thanks. Why wouldn't the way I describe work?

Because to my knowledge you can't split a stereo chanel into 2 mono chanels internally in the es8
Worth noting tho that you could use a say chanel A to send and return on A and B. So you only need 2 chanels to perform the split. The mix at the end can be done internally. So no additional chanels required.

 

[Robertron]

Very helpful thank you guys! I knew I'd be in for a whole lot of tweaking and testing when I get the ES-8.

 

[Robertron]

Hey Sourceaudio this has been a great year for bass compression. If you guys happened to drop a One Series Bass compressor I think you'd have most of the forum's eyes on you. You've done programmable EQ presets in the past why not throw compression into that mix?

 

[Hugsonic]

What I would really love would be to be able to edit panels on my Soleman without a computer. Just to be able to assign PC values and a name to the switches. And maybe name the panel.
Please.

 

[nnavarro]

Thank you for the feedback, guys. Noted.

@Hugsonic Naming panels is currently possible. With Panel Mode enabled, press the Edit button, use the footswitches to name the Panel, then press the Confirm button.

 

[Hugsonic]

Thanks for that, its being able to edit the patches that I really need. As I dont want to take a laptop to a jam. I love what you guys have done with the phone app, means I can set up a new patch really easily. I just cant assign it to a switch on the soleman. Still love it though

 

[El_Ohso]

I will address some specific questions, but I want to be very open and transparent about our decisions when it comes to priorities.

This is the challenge we are working with:
The Hub and the Neuro App are cutting edge and on the verge of being unique (I know there is some other stuff out there, but the feature sets are much more basic). These things give the One Series Pedals ($149) the power of $500 to $900 effects, rack units, etc in a very small package. Interestingly, the reviews so far on the Vertigo is that it is a steal and one of the best tremolo pedals even.....even before the Hub and Neuro are taken into account. That is all the good stuff, and I know it does not stop there.

The first thing that is hard is the firmware inside of each One Series pedal. Ensuring that it works with MIDI over USB, MIDI via Hub, Exp, Hot Hand, Reflex, Tap Tempo, MIDI clock, Hub scenes, Neuro in all of its forms and all of its behind the curtain complexity, Hub Manager, the USB software editor is an absolutely massive challenge. So much harder than SB2, which was so much harder than SBPro. SB1 looks like a joke these days! Each new product is a huge task.

The second thing that is hard is for each new One Series pedal we need:

Updated iOS Neuro App
Updated Android Neuro App
Updated Hub Firmware
Updated Hub Manager Software for PC
Updated Hub Manager Software for Mac
A totally new piece of software called the USB Software editor that is specific to each One Series pedal - for PC
Same as above for Mac

That is a big list. We are mainly hardware, algorithm and firmware oriented. Someone noted a while back that we are slowly becoming a software company....and that is not all wrong.

My hope it that we can keep plugging away at our pile of work and knock things off one after another. I hope we have demonstrated that we have the technical chops to execute. The thing we lack is bandwidth.

Neuro App Support:
This is the most important thing for us to have for the One Series. One Series sales are essential to fund our engineering development work. This is a top priority.

Nemesis:
While Hot Hand and the BEF Pro gave us a nice period of sales growth, we need to replace them with a new source of sales growth. The One Series trem and modulators (and eventually distortion) are one component, and Nemesis is the other. This is a top priority.

Hub Support for One Series:
Based on this thread, we just released an update to the Hub firmware (1.14). This will allow the addition of One Series pedals to scenes, as well as MIDI and expression. No, you will not be able to go in and edit the pedals. Adding this functionality to the Hub Manager software is very complicated and will not likely happen until we do it for Nemesis (6 to 10 weeks from now is my estimate).

USB Software Editor:
This is a tool to deeply edit effects. It is really more of an engineering development tool. It is hard to imagine that more than 50 people would use this for Vertigo. With Nemesis it might be more, but we are increasing the parameter controls on the Neuro app for this, so it may not be so interesting or important. Note that when the Hub manager has support for One Series, you can have access to all the same stuff as you get to via the Neuro App.

Also, remember that any DAW such as Abelton can control the One Series pedals over USB via MIDI today. It all works.

Reflex Editor:
As noted, core functionality of this product does not need software. This is not a top priority. I am aware that there are some who want it.

Soleman Editor:
This product must have an editor. It will accompany the release of the product.

I hope all of this is helpful. As noted, we are a very small engineering oriented company trying to innovate at the very highest levels. We are deeply appreciative of the faith so many of you have had with us as we role out new products and new concepts. Feedback is always welcome!

HELLO!!!!!

Sorry for being a bit lazy.

I was wondering if I could get MIDI CLOCK from Ableton Live to my REFLEX through USB and send it through the MIDI OUT to a midi splitter and then to some pedals (planning my new live rig).

Best regards!

 

[nnavarro]

HELLO!!!!!

Sorry for being a bit lazy.

I was wondering if I could get MIDI CLOCK from Ableton Live to my REFLEX through USB and send it through the MIDI OUT to a midi splitter and then to some pedals (planning my new live rig).

Best regards!

Hi! Good question. The Reflex will sync to MIDI clock from Ableton sent over USB, but the MIDI clock signal will not be relayed through the Reflex's MIDI output. A MIDI merge box could be used to sum messages from the Reflex and Ableton, and then followed with a MIDI splitter for devices down the chain.

 

[MikeSpector]

Cool thread! I have an old BEF but am looking to buy a Manta. Usually I am an analog guy but was blown away by the BEF when I bought one a while back. I am a filter fanatic and the BEF stays plugged in and the others are in the closet or sold on the bay. Cheers!

 

[El_Ohso]

Hi! Good question. The Reflex will sync to MIDI clock from Ableton sent over USB, but the MIDI clock signal will not be relayed through the Reflex's MIDI output. A MIDI merge box could be used to sum messages from the Reflex and Ableton, and then followed with a MIDI splitter for devices down the chain.

Thank you very much!!! I was hoping to shorten my rig hahahaha. Still, the Reflex Kicks Ass!!!!

 

[symbolic_acts]

Cool thread! I have an old BEF but am looking to buy a Manta. Usually I am an analog guy but was blown away by the BEF when I bought one a while back. I am a filter fanatic and the BEF stays plugged in and the others are in the closet or sold on the bay. Cheers!

yeah the manta owns.

I'm actually not certain if i would even like a Oneseries style bass filter...having all the control without the need to plug in a phone/laptop/etc is really useful for something like a filter. I like being able to tweak it around on the fly. Controlling it isn't confusing at all once you get used to it. A oneseries filter would have to have a bunch of knobs or sound wayyyyy better to knock the manta off my board

 

[Nunovsky]

Cool thread! I have an old BEF but am looking to buy a Manta. Usually I am an analog guy but was blown away by the BEF when I bought one a while back. I am a filter fanatic and the BEF stays plugged in and the others are in the closet or sold on the bay. Cheers!

I also have the BEF Pro and I'd love a smaller, more pedalboard friendly Envelope Filter in the One Series format. I didn't go for the Manta because the BEF Pro has more tweakability and one of the things that I love is the fantastic Eq that you can use. Considering what you can do with the Neuro app with the other pedals of the Series, you would get everything that the BEF Pro and the Manta are capable and much more, and this envelope filter would top every other EF out there for sure.

 

[Aloe]

Cool thread! I have an old BEF but am looking to buy a Manta.

I moved from a first-gen BEF to a Manta. that took like 2 months of setting it up with the help of SA guys, but once moved I don't regret it.

the thing I like with Manta is that I have different filters on different buttons, I like it to be sweep up and sweep down. yeah, I have other envelope filters which have `up/down` toggle, but I cannot use it while playing and definitely prefer two footswitches for up and down. so I consider an rumored upcoming One Series envelope filter as a downgrade, if it will have one footswitch (like all other One Series pedal do). YMMV

 

[rsmith601]

A new One Envelope filter plus Hub? Now, that will get VERY interesting.......more to come.

 

[enjoi1018]

Please be in a Nemesis/Ventris enclosure! The One series is fantastic but I like the greater visual feedback, adjustability, and secondary footswitch that could unlock crazy possibilities on the surface!

My fingers are crossed!

 

[rsmith601]

Please be in a Nemesis/Ventris enclosure! The One series is fantastic but I like the greater visual feedback, adjustability, and secondary footswitch that could unlock crazy possibilities on the surface!

My fingers are crossed!

So, just to comment on this for a moment.

Ventris and Nemesis were soooooo expensive to develop. Thankfully, many people have purchased them at relatively high prices and we live to make more pedals another day. Delay and reverb are in a small class of product where if you do a big complex thing, lots of folks will pay for it. How many folks will pay $300 or $400 for an envelope filter? Few. If we did one, we would be killed by high development cost and low sales. If not for the bass wobble thing, the BEF Pro would have been a huge miss. AND, that was only $229...….not $300 or $400.

So, I need to find a way where I can give you all the following:

Our complete envelope filter library
plus
Lots of distortion options
plus
A complete library of Octave and pitch stuff

IN SUCH A MANNER THAT,

we can sell enough pedals at the right price point so that we can keep going and you all can be happy. (AKA win-win, habit #4)

I will share more in a bit.

 

[stambroker]

A complete library of Octave and pitch stuff.

Well, looks like my family members aren't getting Christmas presents after all. I must have this pedal.

 

[rsmith601]

Well, looks like my family members aren't getting Christmas presents after all. I must have this pedal.

We will not have anything ready until May/June time frame.

 

[Robertron]

So, I need to find a way where I can give you all the following:

Our complete envelope filter library
plus
Lots of distortion options
plus
A complete library of Octave and pitch stufF

Soooo how many of us would buy, or even TRY, a One Series pedal like that?

I would. I really would.

Also, there are so many ways I could see the Aftershock benefit from a dual footswitch enclosure like the Nemesis. I would love an Aftershock where I have built in footswitches to remap and more space on the face for knobs. I would upgrade immediately. 7 knobs, like the Nemesis, could be used so well with the Aftershock's parameters and the rotary select knob used to select Delay types would work well for selecting drive types.

The Aftershock has such a deep set of parameters for a dirt pedal that remapping the knobs feels limited because there are so few knobs. Tweaking the Aftershock live is a bit of a nightmare for me. If there were more knobs to remap I wouldn't have to unplug Input 2, kneel down while I set up and use the Neuro app, fiddle, and reconnect my board to test the final tone in the mix. At home, I absolutely love Neuro on my computer, but I would love to have more control on the face of the pedal for easier tweaking in the moment.