Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[BurningSkies]

I loved how people freaked out when they found out the Xero is digital.

I think all Taylor's stuff is. I've never cared one way or the other. I don't disbelieve that the C4/Spectrum could do the filter..but how I use my X/D is fairly specific (sub-loop, in the high-pass side of a crossover with a fuzz in front of it that's then recombined with the clean lows from the low pass). As it's inextricably nested in that signal path, there's little chance that the C4 will replace it. Which is fine. I've come to think of it as a single monumental effect in my chain...that then gets things added to the front or rear sides of the signal chain.

 

[jondom22]

To clarify.
- Yes you can control multiple USB over midi pedals such as the C4, spectrum, Red Panda particle/tensor, and zoom with a single DMC gen 3 controller.
- Plug usb midi pedal 1 into the dmc usb jack, set the dmc to USB=Host
- Plug usb midi pedal 2 into the soon-to-be released micro.ghost usb jack
- connect micro.ghost MIDI 5 pin DIN input to the dmc’s 5 pin DIN output. Both usb midi pedals can then be controlled by the DMC.

- the micro.ghost has both MIDI in and out/thru via 5 pin, each on its own jack, so chaining them like standard DIN Devices is totally fine.
- you can connect micro.ghost (or your DMC) to other third party midi controllers. I just successfully connected my C4 to my dmc.micro, and then used the 5 pin DIN splitter y cable from DA to connect to my Morningstar MC6 mkii and was able to control the C4 with the MC6.

- when the micro-ghost comes out in September, I will have either 1 + qconnect, or 2 micro.ghosts plus 1/4” midi box underneath my board for my C4, Particle V2, mood, thermae, and radical delay DX. I also have a mobius, md-500, voodoo lab hex, and SA Reflex that will also be connected. Everything will be controlled by my MC6 mkii to call up bypass/engage state of all 9 Devices, and pc# of the ones I’m engaging so I can control my whole board with 1 button footswitch. I will also have a DA MIDI Baby (or the upcoming Baby3) for some specific top level control (midi clock, changing between clean/od/fuzz 1/fuzz 2), and a few other global commands.

 

[s_wood]

Having both will makes sense for a few folks who want to do lots of crazy things, or they want to have dedicated knobs for envelope stuff, but one C4 should cover what most of what people want.

Found one on Reverb, and it's on its way to me. I like the idea of having dedicated knobs for the filter, and of course the additional presets without Midi. Can anyone point me to the Spectrum manual? I don't see it on the SA website yet.

 

[Nighttrain1127]

But the Hub is really a pain for me to deal with I have no Idea what I am doing with it . I can get everything connected and the hub recognized all the connected pedals but that was as far as I could get it to go See again MIDI Illiterate here. So I sold it and all the pedals . But now have an Aftershock and C4 And am getting a Spectrum in the next couple of days .

 

[BurningSkies]

But the Hub is really a pain for me to deal with I have no Idea what I am doing with it . I can get everything connected and the hub recognized all the connected pedals but that was as far as I could get it to go See again MIDI Illiterate here. So I sold it and all the pedals . But now have an Aftershock and C4 And am getting a Spectrum in the next couple of days .

I assume that the 'Hub' functions as the MIDI device in this situation, and then it 'talks' to the other units to parse out the information? So you MIDI to the hub and then it triggers whatever changes you tell it to on the pedals connected to it? I believe it's not just a pass through?

 

[Nighttrain1127]

It also stores Scenes or settings for SA pedals . And it also needs a controller. So if I am correct The other One Series pedals only have 3-6 spaces to store settings and the hub stores the rest but only up to 128. So can I control the nub with a MIDI controller?

 

[Chace90]

I assume that the 'Hub' functions as the MIDI device in this situation, and then it 'talks' to the other units to parse out the information? So you MIDI to the hub and then it triggers whatever changes you tell it to on the pedals connected to it? I believe it's not just a pass through?

My understanding is that it translates MIDI for the SA devices, more or less. Regarding it and the C4/spectrum, there's almost no setup. Just make sure your MIDI channels agree. Right now the hub does almost nothing else for those 2 pedals. All the programming happens on the MIDI controller

 

[BurningSkies]

It also stores Scenes or settings for SA pedals . And it also needs a controller. So if I am correct The other One Series pedals only have 3-6 spaces to store settings and the hub stores the rest but only up to 128. So can I control the nub with a MIDI controller?

I think that the pedal will hold the presets, which is how you can use a controller-to-gHost-to-SA pedal. But if you want to have it chained as you would your other pedals or a MIDI controller that doesn't do gHost, you'll need the hub.

 

[Stephen]

Found one on Reverb, and it's on its way to me. I like the idea of having dedicated knobs for the filter, and of course the additional presets without Midi. Can anyone point me to the Spectrum manual? I don't see it on the SA website yet.

Spectrum Intelligent Filter

Scroll down

 

[jondom22]

C4/Spectrum can be controlled via MIDI like other regular MIDI fx pedals. Those pedals store its own presets and cc information, and you can recall that via pc and cc messages by a MIDI controller. Same goes for the Nemesis and Ventris (though they have the added benefit of 5 PIN I/O).

The other one-series currently require the hub to essentially access more than a few presets. The preset and cc information is stored in the Hub as opposed to within the individual pedals (as far as I understand), and thus the hub is essentially the master pedal with all of your presets for these other one series pedals. The hub can be controlled by a Soleman or a third party midi controller (Disaster Area, Morningstar, RJM, Boss, etc).

 

[Robertron]

Somebody pin this to the first post ^^

 

[BurningSkies]

C4/Spectrum can be controlled via MIDI like other regular MIDI fx pedals. Those pedals store its own presets and cc information, and you can recall that via pc and cc messages by a MIDI controller. Same goes for the Nemesis and Ventris (though they have the added benefit of 5 PIN I/O).

The other one-series currently require the hub to essentially access more than a few presets. The preset and cc information is stored in the Hub as opposed to within the individual pedals (as far as I understand), and thus the hub is essentially the master pedal with all of your presets for these other one series pedals. The hub can be controlled by a Soleman or a third party midi controller (Disaster Area, Morningstar, RJM, Boss, etc).

I think the real issue people are trying to grapple with is working without a standard 5 pin Midi-connector means you either need a controller that will do USB midi, or you need the Neuro-Hub as an interface, and what complexity if any needing the hub v. having a USB-based MIDI controller (or both) will bring. I just took a look at the Manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

and the Neuro Hub manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[gregmon79]

C4/Spectrum can be controlled via MIDI like other regular MIDI fx pedals. Those pedals store its own presets and cc information, and you can recall that via pc and cc messages by a MIDI controller. Same goes for the Nemesis and Ventris (though they have the added benefit of 5 PIN I/O).

The other one-series currently require the hub to essentially access more than a few presets. The preset and cc information is stored in the Hub as opposed to within the individual pedals (as far as I understand), and thus the hub is essentially the master pedal with all of your presets for these other one series pedals. The hub can be controlled by a Soleman or a third party midi controller (Disaster Area, Morningstar, RJM, Boss, etc).

Add the HX/Helix/Stomp to that list....

 

[jondom22]

I think the real issue people are trying to grapple with is working without a standard 5 pin Midi-connector means you either need a controller that will do USB midi, or you need the Neuro-Hub as an interface, and what complexity if any needing the hub v. having a USB-based MIDI controller (or both) will bring. I just took a look at the Manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

and the Neuro Hub manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Maybe I misunderstood. I think the hub is geared towards non c4/spectrum one series pedals where you are within that ecosystem.

I just look at pedals that do Midi over USB the same as pedals that do MIDI over 1/4”. You just need some type of interface to get it to talk to your midi controller.

DA makes the qconnect and dmc gen 3 that includes both the controller and the interface for USB and 1/4” over MIDI (as well as 5 pin). Most other controllers just have 5 pin and thus you need an interface.

So if using just one usb capable pedal with a DA gen 3, all you need is a $10 cable. If you have a 2nd USB midi pedal, then you would need to buy an additional USB host interface. Those options include the $50+ midiplus usb host (which is pretty large), the new dA microghost (small), and then some other bigger more expensive ones.

Per Matthew from DA: I asked him how come he doesn’t make a multi-usb host interface or include more than 1 usb host port (or allow for it to connect with a usb hub) for users like myself who own more than 1 usb midi pedal. His answer was that because they share a ground and bus, it would have the potential to cause unwanted noise and feedback loops.

 

[jondom22]

Add the HX/Helix/Stomp to that list....

Don’t those have midi I/o via standard 5 pin DIN?

 

[gregmon79]

I think the real issue people are trying to grapple with is working without a standard 5 pin Midi-connector means you either need a controller that will do USB midi, or you need the Neuro-Hub as an interface, and what complexity if any needing the hub v. having a USB-based MIDI controller (or both) will bring. I just took a look at the Manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

and the Neuro Hub manual here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This is exactly how I think of the Hub, a midi interface/brain to communicate between midi devices/pedals and stores/accesses presets for the SA pedals plugged into it.

 

[gregmon79]

Don’t those have midi I/o via standard 5 pin DIN?

All I know if they have midi in and out. And my HX can switch presets on my C4 via the Hub. Idk midi well enough to tell you the DIN or 5 pin part of it....

 

[rsmith601]

I think all Taylor's stuff is. I've never cared one way or the other. I don't disbelieve that the C4/Spectrum could do the filter..but how I use my X/D is fairly specific (sub-loop, in the high-pass side of a crossover with a fuzz in front of it that's then recombined with the clean lows from the low pass). As it's inextricably nested in that signal path, there's little chance that the C4 will replace it. Which is fine. I've come to think of it as a single monumental effect in my chain...that then gets things added to the front or rear sides of the signal chain.

There are 23 filter shapes on C4 and Spectrum. You can use 2 at once to create 23x23 filter shapes. These can be controlled by a highly configurable envelope section to create thousands of different envelope pedals in one. I would guess there will be thousands of Neuro filter presets to choose from soon. It's kind of mind bending.
In about 3 weeks there are over 350 C4 public presets, and we just counted 3000 user presets that are private. That's 1000 per week. And there are not yet many pedals in circulation. Are all the Neuro sounds good? No. Are some jaw dropping? Yes! It is fascinating to watch.

 

[BurningSkies]

Maybe I misunderstood. I think the hub is geared towards non c4/spectrum one series pedals where you are within that ecosystem.

I just look at pedals that do Midi over USB the same as pedals that do MIDI over 1/4”. You just need some type of interface to get it to talk to your midi controller.

DA makes the qconnect and dmc gen 3 that includes both the controller and the interface for USB and 1/4” over MIDI (as well as 5 pin). Most other controllers just have 5 pin and thus you need an interface.

So if using just one usb capable pedal with a DA gen 3, all you need is a $10 cable. If you have a 2nd USB midi pedal, then you would need to buy an additional USB host interface. Those options include the $50+ midiplus usb host (which is pretty large), the new dA microghost (small), and then some other bigger more expensive ones.

Per Matthew from DA: I asked him how come he doesn’t make a multi-usb host interface or include more than 1 usb host port (or allow for it to connect with a usb hub) for users like myself who own more than 1 usb midi pedal. His answer was that because they share a ground and bus, it would have the potential to cause unwanted noise and feedback loops.

If the Hub acts as a USB host/interface, that's good enough for me I don't need it to act as a controller. I have a DA DMC-3XL controller on my board already...but most of my stage-action is done by way of a Boss ES-5 acting as both a loop/switcher and a MIDI controller.

My MIDI signal path (all 5-pin) is DA DMC-3XL -> Boss ES-5 -> MIDI effect 1 -> MIDI effect 2 -> MIDI Effect 3.

I use the ES-5 as my main stage controller and it's all patches built of loops (non midi pedals) and MIDI pedals by CC and PC and used for specific songs. I use the DMC-3XL for a la carte MIDI pedal activation and to ratchet through patches since the ES-5 doesn't easily allow for that. While I can program presets on the DMC-3XL, I don't need to...easier to do on the ES.

In fact, the DMC isn't even set up to recognize the ES as a MIDI device, only the effect pedals.

 

[jondom22]

All I know if they have midi in and out. And my HX can switch presets on my C4 via the Hub. Idk midi well enough to tell you the DIN or 5 pin part of it....

Understood. You're controlling the Hub with your HX. The HX seems to be capable of being used as a MIDI controller. I believe you'd be connecting it to the hub via the 5 Pin DIN jacks (though the Hub does have a USB port which you might be able to transmit Midi to the Hub, but it wouldn't act as a host device for individual pedals).

If the Hub acts as a USB host/interface, that's good enough for me I don't need it to act as a controller. I have a DA DMC-3XL controller on my board already...but most of my stage-action is done by way of a Boss ES-5 acting as both a loop/switcher and a MIDI controller.

My MIDI signal path (all 5-pin) is DA DMC-3XL -> Boss ES-5 -> MIDI effect 1 -> MIDI effect 2 -> MIDI Effect 3.

I use the ES-5 as my main stage controller and it's all patches built of loops (non midi pedals) and MIDI pedals by CC and PC and used for specific songs. I use the DMC-3XL for a la carte MIDI pedal activation and to ratchet through patches since the ES-5 doesn't easily allow for that. While I can program presets on the DMC-3XL, I don't need to...easier to do on the ES.

In fact, the DMC isn't even set up to recognize the ES as a MIDI device, only the effect pedals.

I don't believe the Hub works as a USB host, but it can definitely interface with the One Series including the C4 and Spectrum. In that situation you would connect the C4/Spectrum it to the hub via 1/8" TRRS.

I'm actually curious if the Hub can also pass through direct pc/cc messages to the C4/Spectrum, or if it will only be able to receive Hub scene messages from a controller? The way the Hub is designed, from my understanding, is to store presets which include the bypass state and pc# of a group of pedals. If for example the C4 is on channel 1, spectrum on channel 2, kingmaker on channel 3, and the Hub is channel 4, my understanding is that your ES-8 (or DMC-3XL) will only be able to send messages on channel 4 to the Hub and not pass through Midi messages to channels 1-3 (the individual pedals). But if you create a scene where you just engage C4 with preset #7 (pc#6), then you can save that as scene 1 for example on the Hub and be able to recall that by sending PC#2 to channel 4 (preset 1 to the hub), as opposed to the pedal directly.

Sorry for the word salad haha. @rsmith601 please correct me if I'm wrong.