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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#8,281
BurningSkies said:
I don't think you'll have a problem with splitting, but then I haven't really been paying attention to the ES-8. Here's a question...are you then summing to mono-out or are you going to a stereo send (DI or amp). My only concern would be phase after the split. I do know that some pedals will flip phase...I have a crossover pedal with a phase inverter on the HP side and indeed my fuzz pedal does need me to change the phase in the loop.

I ended up setting mine up with a handful of things in front and a handful behind because I have some 'always on' things like my Cali & the Opti-Limiter then somethings at the end that I'd always want at the end that can be MIDI triggered. If you're playing 'parallel loop' games or such, then it makes sense to have things all looped. I will say that I moved the Flex Pro into a loop so I could use it parallel to clean signal, which is great except I'd hoped I could control the individual volumes via the ES-5's mixer and it doesn't have that facility...you can add signal or subtract, but its across both signal paths not one or the other.

My issue with the ES-8 was how deep the unit is. I literally couldn't fit it on the board and maintain 3 rows of pedals and have room for wiring. As it is I have to use the smallest connectors possible to fit.
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Nice! So right now the only pedal I have phase issues with is the Big Muff Black but it isn't running parallel for that reason. It will be pre ES-8 along with my MBD-1 and compressor.
 
#8,282
bassbrad said:
@rsmith601 Okay I get that Bill apparently was annoyed we asked for more information, mea culpa.
After multiple readings and a return of my Monday Migraine I still do not have any better understanding of what the 12 Envelopes are supposed to do on the input signal. It would be nice to know what the shape of those Envelopes are because I cane really "hear" exactly what is going on. If I am asking too much please tell me to kindly bugger off. No hard feelings, honest.
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I just read it again. That is exactly how he documents his work when he communicates with me and the team. There are even jokes in there!!!
 
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#8,290
rsmith601 said:
It looks better with different formatting. Will do that tomorrow. The filter response curves could be measured and extracted without a huge investment, so we did that. Drawing those curves for the envelopes is a different story. If you see the numbers in a table it is an approximation of the visual.
Bob is highly technical, reads IEEE journals for fun. And if you ask a highly technical question, you will get a highly technical answer that makes sense in his world.
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Maybe formatting will help because I see no table or baseline that makes those numbers anything helpful.

Maybe a verbal description if not a graph giving some idea what the envelope is intended to do.

With the distortions and filters we have descriptors with the Envelopes we got Nuttin but best guess for most of them. I hate to beat this again but I cannot be the only one looking for more info on the Envelopes and more may be coming with pitchforks!
 
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#8,294
rsmith601 said:
Some of asked for this:
ENVELOPES IN THE C4
8/19/19

The Source Audio C4 Synth pedal has two envelope followers available. They both have the same capabilities, but their control parameters may be set differently. Input 1 or input 2 may serve as the input signal to either. An envelope follower uses its audio input signal to output a representation of how loud the audio is at the moment. Louder signals get a higher output level from the envelope follower.

Since the audio signal goes both positive and negative, we first take the absolute value of the audio; negative values are replaced by the same number, but made positive. A certain amount of smoothing is necessary, because the input signal will repeatedly go to zero, but at a rate which we don't perceive as a level change, since it is happening too fast for us to hear like that. Deliberately introducing a slower than necessary smoothing will cause the output to move more slowly than the actual audio signal changes. Different smoothing rates for attack (a rising output) and decay (a falling output) permit more control over the final response.

Whereas a typical synthesizer has a controllable release time on its envelopes (which begins when one takes their hand off a keyboard note), we have the problem that the guitar sound is over when a note is through. A synthesizer oscillator would still be running, but the pitch detector output tends to lose it as a note is dying away, so the synth oscillator is also not reliably available after note end. So our final release times are always quite short.


We also offer ADSR type envelopes (attack – decay – sustain – release). The attack segment begins when an attack threshold level is exceeded. When the envelope level gets to 1.0 (full scale ON), the decay segment takes over, dropping until the sustain level is reached. When the input gets below a release threshold, we go into a (fast, as always) release segment. These threshold levels are fixed. One more reason to do the Input Gain Calibration procedure, to make sure your guitar signal is in the proper range, for the fixed thresholds.

All of these possible envelope controls are not brought out to the user interface. This is partly due to trying to save bits in the preset data (and if you had asked me 50 years ago whether saving bits would still be a thing in 2019, I would have laughed), and also to keep the complexity down. Reasonable people may disagree that boiling down a lot of controls into only a few, with a selection of envelope types, is really simpler. But that's the way it is.
The Envelope Type definitions:



The Speed control goes from 0.0 to 1.0, for both Attack and Decay times. This is translated to the following range of what are called "time constants". (After one time constant, a decaying signal has dropped to 36.8% (or -8.7 dB) from its starting value.)


The Fast-Attack number controls exactly how fast the initial attack can rise. 1.0 is instantaneous; 0.5 is the fastest used. Most are considerably slower. The ADSR envelopes do not use this control.

Sustain is the ADSR sustain level. Most are 0.0, with two at 0.2. ​
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Did my best to clean this up and preset the important stuff is clear tables. Not perfect, but much better!!
 
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#8,295
Quatschmacher said:
Finally got some rough clips recorded:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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Can't tell you how excited I am about this preset and clip. I just sent it to the entire SA team.
This is the location for those who want to know:
Neuro Community by Source Audio

Searching both the web feed and my phone got me right too it. Just tried searching on my iPad for "pad" and I got right there. The audio played perfectly.

Well done, @Quatschmacher !!
 
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#8,296
bassbrad said:
Maybe formatting will help because I see no table or baseline that makes those numbers anything helpful.

Maybe a verbal description if not a graph giving some idea what the envelope is intended to do.

With the distortions and filters we have descriptors with the Envelopes we got Nuttin but best guess for most of them. I hate to beat this again but I cannot be the only one looking for more info on the Envelopes and more may be coming with pitchforks!
Click to expand...



BLUCHER!!!!!

(as in Frau Blucher..…..)

Hope my edits to the post are helpful.
 
#8,297
Me checking out all these presets with the phone app and having a blast.

young-frankenstein-gene-wilder.jpg
 
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#8,299
rsmith601 said:
Can't tell you how excited I am about this preset and clip. I just sent it to the entire SA team.
This is the location for those who want to know:
Neuro Community by Source Audio

Searching both the web feed and my phone got me right too it. Just tried searching on my iPad for "pad" and I got right there. The audio played perfectly.

Well done, @Quatschmacher !!
Click to expand...

Thanks, Roger!
 

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