Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[aglide]

Question about the Nuero Hub. It has five control ports. Some of the more advanced SA pedals have MIDI In and Through. Can you daisy chain these pedals on one MIDI control channel from the Hub and still control them all? For example, connect a port on the Hub to the TRRS port on a C4, then connect the MIDI Through port on the C4 to MIDI In on a Ventris?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Question about the Nuero Hub. It has five control ports. Some of the more advanced SA pedals have MIDI In and Through. Can you daisy chain these pedals on one MIDI control channel from the Hub and still control them all? For example, connect a port on the Hub to the TRRS port on a C4, then connect the MIDI Through port on the C4 to MIDI In on a Ventris?

C4 doesn’t have 5-pin MIDI ports.

Assuming you meant more generally using any two SA pedals with 5-pin MIDI ports, I am not sure, I’d have to check. My guess would be that only MIDI data received via the 5-pin input would be passed through to the 5-pin MIDI output. I’m happy to be proved otherwise though.

 

[aglide]

Oh, right. Let's say the EQ2 instead of the C4, in my example. But you also touched on the heart of the question. Asking if MIDI data coming in to the mini TRRS port get passed out of the MIDI Through port, or does it only pass on data that comes into the MIDI In port.

Basically, can the Hub "see" a pedal that is daisy chained in this way.

 

[jasonmitsch]

My analogue octaves do seem a bit “fuller” but this could be maybe overcome with EQ. The C4/Spectrum only have bass and treble controls. I haven’t tried running the output into the EQ2 yet and seeing if I can dial it in better.

Having everything I a single box is great and the ability to switch up sounds easily. There’s no way my analogue pedals could match the versatility and envelope shape choices of the C4/Spectrum.

I get the best of both worlds though. When I had a Manta, I pretty much always used the same two analogue dirt/octave pedals in front of it for my synth-type sounds. Now I can dial up something on C4/Spectrum alone or use the same analogue pedals in their loops.

I loved my Manta so much, but the only thing I miss from it is having 2 buttons. They were 2 great sounding buttons and played so well with the OFD's 2 buttons and an octaver. I totally agree with you that the C4 is preferred. I would love a 2 button C4, but my HXFX as a midi controller negates that.

It veritably warms my cockles to hear that. Glad you’re enjoying them. Nice to know I’m not just spamming the SA servers.

You truly are the Pope of the Church of Synth Pedals. I don't practice everything you preach, but I listen and take your gospel to heart. lol

 

[aguacateojos]

The day has arrived y'all. After about a year of not updating my setup I'm going to plug everything in, load some new patches on my C4 and start developing scenes with that and my Aftershock. It's been a long time coming. I hope I remember how to program my MC6...

 

[Adamixoye]

Oh, right. Let's say the EQ2 instead of the C4, in my example. But you also touched on the heart of the question. Asking if MIDI data coming in to the mini TRRS port get passed out of the MIDI Through port, or does it only pass on data that comes into the MIDI In port.

Basically, can the Hub "see" a pedal that is daisy chained in this way.

IIRC the answer is no but the SA guys should probably confirm.

The Hub itself has an out port that can be set to "Thru," would that be helpful to you?

 

[Quatschmacher]

The Hub itself has an out port that can be set to "Thru," would that be helpful to you?

That should do the trick.

 

[aguacateojos]

What do y'all think about this pedal order -

tuner -> MXR compressor -> C4 -> Iron Ether SubT -> DOD Meatbox -> Aftershock -> noise gate -> DD7 -> HPF -> Shift Line Oly MKIIIs

EDIT - main thing I'm noticing is that signal from the C4 can easily make the SubT freak out...

 

[aglide]

IIRC the answer is no but the SA guys should probably confirm.

The Hub itself has an out port that can be set to "Thru," would that be helpful to you?

Nice, I think this fits my needs perfectly.

 

[aglide]

Actually, I have more questions about the MIDI Through. Does the Hub control devices that are on the MIDI Through port and is it able to include them in scenes with those that are on the five smaller control channels? Maybe @rsmith601 can clarify?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Actually, I have more questions about the MIDI Through. Does the Hub control devices that are on the MIDI Through port and is it able to include them in scenes with those that are on the five smaller control channels? Maybe @rsmith601 can clarify?

The MIDI THRU will pass on whatever you send it. If a device downstream is set to the same MIDI channel as the hub then it will receive the same PC and CC messages so could be made to engage at the same time as a hub scene. Or if your downstream devices have different MIDI channels, they could still be engaged when you send the hub scene PC provided that your controller can be programmed to send messages to multiple channels simultaneously. An MC6 or MC8 can do this.

What the Hub won’t do is automatically save the state of your non-SA pedals as part of a scene; you’ll need to program those manually.

 

[aglide]

The MIDI THRU will pass on whatever you send it. If a device downstream is set to the same MIDI channel as the hub then it will receive the same PC and CC messages so could be made to engage at the same time as a hub scene. Or if your downstream devices have different MIDI channels, they could still be engaged when you send the hub scene PC provided that your controller can be programmed to send messages to multiple channels simultaneously. An MC6 or MC8 can do this.

What the Hub won’t do is automatically save the state of your non-SA pedals as part of a scene; you’ll need to program those manually.

If I'm following you correctly, it sounds like even if it's an SA pedal like the Ventris, EQ2 or Nemesis, the Hub can't save the state of it when it's connected to the MIDI Through on the Hub itself. One Hub can only save the state of five pedals, because they must be connected directly to one of the 5 TRRS ports.

Would those be accurate statements?

 

[Quatschmacher]

If I'm following you correctly, it sounds like even if it's an SA pedal like the Ventris, EQ2 or Nemesis, the Hub can't save the state of it when it's connected to the MIDI Through on the Hub itself. One Hub can only save the state of five pedals, because they must be connected directly to one of the 5 TRRS ports.

Would those be accurate statements?

That’s right. However if you were to have those SA pedals not connected to the Hub via TRRS then you could put them all on the sameness channel as the Hub and save settings to their internal memory slots corresponding to the PC number you were sending to the Hub for a given scene and they would recall. There are ways around it. The easier solution would be to buy a second Hub if you are running out of ports.

 

[aglide]

That’s right. However if you were to have those SA pedals not connected to the Hub via TRRS then you could put them all on the sameness channel as the Hub and save settings to their internal memory slots corresponding to the PC number you were sending to the Hub for a given scene and they would recall. There are ways around it. The easier solution would be to buy a second Hub if you are running out of ports.

That makes sense. Would that also be how you would integrate multiple Hubs? Daisy chain hubs via the MIDI In and Thru, and just make sure the PC is the same on each hub for the overall "scene of scenes"?

Thanks for the info. This is all theoretical currently, because I don't have a Hub or a MIDI controller yet. I have very little experience with MIDI in general, so I'm just doing research right now, and probably going to be asking some pretty basic questions.

But I do have a nice collection of SA pedals on the workbench right now, with a couple more on the way

 

[sunbeast]

That’s right. However if you were to have those SA pedals not connected to the Hub via TRRS then you could put them all on the sameness channel as the Hub and save settings to their internal memory slots corresponding to the PC number you were sending to the Hub for a given scene and they would recall. There are ways around it. The easier solution would be to buy a second Hub if you are running out of ports.

I thought it was possible to daisy-chain Neuro info via the stereo jacks on the pedals. Does this not apply to messages from the Hub?

 

[odarellmc]

What do y'all think about this pedal order -

tuner -> MXR compressor -> C4 -> Iron Ether SubT -> DOD Meatbox -> Aftershock -> noise gate -> DD7 -> HPF -> Shift Line Oly MKIIIs

EDIT - main thing I'm noticing is that signal from the C4 can easily make the SubT freak out...

As it is with all pedals there are no rules

 

[Quatschmacher]

That makes sense. Would that also be how you would integrate multiple Hubs? Daisy chain hubs via the MIDI In and Thru, and just make sure the PC is the same on each hub for the overall "scene of scenes"?

Thanks for the info. This is all theoretical currently, because I don't have a Hub or a MIDI controller yet. I have very little experience with MIDI in general, so I'm just doing research right now, and probably going to be asking some pretty basic questions.

But I do have a nice collection of SA pedals on the workbench right now, with a couple more on the way

View attachment 3967626

Yes, you would just use the MIDI THRU of the first hub to feed the second and put both hubs on the same MIDI channel. When saving scenes across both pedals, you’d need to press save on both.

Start with one hub to connect up the four pedals you have and go from there.

 

[Gibs210]

If I'm following you correctly, it sounds like even if it's an SA pedal like the Ventris, EQ2 or Nemesis, the Hub can't save the state of it when it's connected to the MIDI Through on the Hub itself. One Hub can only save the state of five pedals, because they must be connected directly to one of the 5 TRRS ports.

Would those be accurate statements?

Yes, hub is a self contained item. All devices connected to the TRRS ports recieve proprietary messages, rather than straight midi (though hub does translate midi CC messages to individually connected pedals, this is why I always say assign unique device IDs/midi channels to all your connected hub pedals so that you don’t send the same CC message to all 5 pedals).

ok that note, hub does not have direct access to presets in a pedal, rather it reads the settings of each pedal, and then saves that info to a scene to be recalled at a later time. PC messages are NOT passed through the TRRS ports (hence the lack of direct access to pedal presets) l, but you can cheat by using cc103/104 for most pedals (collider has a few more for the 2 sides of the pedal). But again, the hub is not directly accessing preset memory, just sending a midi message that the pedal translates to preset recall.

I thought it was possible to daisy-chain Neuro info via the stereo jacks on the pedals. Does this not apply to messages from the Hub?

no, that’s a different connection altogether. Not the same as the hub.

 

[sunbeast]

What do y'all think about this pedal order -

tuner -> MXR compressor -> C4 -> Iron Ether SubT -> DOD Meatbox -> Aftershock -> noise gate -> DD7 -> HPF -> Shift Line Oly MKIIIs

EDIT - main thing I'm noticing is that signal from the C4 can easily make the SubT freak out...

I’d put the C4 after tracking pedals like the SubT or Meatbox. Consider that the C4 can function as just a filter, or a drive + filter, and in itself generally tracks signals as good or better than an analog octave so makes sense to put after those other synth voices.

 

[aguacateojos]

I’d put the C4 after tracking pedals like the SubT or Meatbox. Consider that the C4 can function as just a filter, or a drive + filter, and in itself generally tracks signals as good or better than an analog octave so makes sense to put after those other synth voices.

Yeah I was leaning towards this - had a rehearsal last night and having the C4 on was making my Subterranea glitch out in ways that were sometimes pleasant, sometimes much less so... considering that I just bought a Xerograph Deluxe to throw in the mix I think it's time to change my signal path.