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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3
- Thread starter gregmon79
- Start date
- May 16, 2007
- 3,395
- 4,869
- Disclosures
- Volunteer developer/beta tester with Source Audio, Morningstar Engineering & MORTRIX
My first patch for the Spectrum is now on the Cloud. GMC Funkulator. It's a different patch to my C4 version. I had to use the Octave Up Fuzz distortion as the Octave up Voice is a bit different to the C4's. I like this version a lot and it's a bit more playable than the C4 version I created previously. Expression is mapped to the Q of the filter, this simulates what the Meridian pedal does. Control 1 is the Filter Frequency on the octave up voice. Control 2 is the level control for the Octave Up Voice. Dial this down for an OC-2 pure wet only signal.
I've been playing with expression via the Neuro hub. With the older pedals like the Aftershock and Lunar, it's restricted to controlling any of the 4 preset knob values. So with my Lunar, speed is usually the most important. However on my Aftershock, I can assign output and that makes it a volume swell. Nice.
I got it working with my C4 really easily and that can map most functions to the expression attached to the Hub.
There's no Midi out CC, so it can't send expression over CC to any non Source Audio pedals. The neuro send out the messages to all of the attached Neuro devices and the on/off is controlled per device.
So what's the benefit? It means that a single pedal can control a lot of devices concurrently. It also means those settings are saved in the Neuro Hub Scenes and can be changed per neuro scene / patch. I could have one scene where my expression is controlling the output from the Aftershock, the next could be controlling the speed on my Lunar instead. It's pretty powerful and actually quite cool.
It does have a few limitations, it's a non device / Midi Channel blanket send. So if have a lot of devices attached to your hub, I currently have 4, and all of them are enabled for External control then they all get affected by the expression pedal (per patch). The hub doesn't control which device responds, it sends out a blanket instruction to all the attached pedals. It's the patch settings on each device (or global neuro scene) that control each pedal's response.
There's a slight lag (common with remote expression / Midi expression etc). Some times it's a bit glitchy with rapid expression movement and sometimes it doesn't track the "back to zero" and close back down either.
When the expression pedal operates, the device's Control LED's doesn't flicker with the expression movement, unlike a midi CC or direct connection. The hub light doesn't flicker either. There's no CC mapping in the Hub to make this expression work with non Source Audio pedals. The Neuro Hub currently doesn't have any Ultrawave expression controls available. It would be cool if this could be added to the hub, although I understand that the hub is pretty maxxed out.
So what is it useful for? If you already have a hub and midi control, it's another way to add a further expression pedal and control certain features of the pedals without introducing any more hardware other then another expression pedal. I'm now thinking of buying another Source Audio dual expression pedal next month to explore this further. I've been wanting to add a 3rd expression pedal to my board (I know...I'm a sick puppy) for a while and this seems to be a fairly flexible and easy method.
I got it working with my C4 really easily and that can map most functions to the expression attached to the Hub.
There's no Midi out CC, so it can't send expression over CC to any non Source Audio pedals. The neuro send out the messages to all of the attached Neuro devices and the on/off is controlled per device.
So what's the benefit? It means that a single pedal can control a lot of devices concurrently. It also means those settings are saved in the Neuro Hub Scenes and can be changed per neuro scene / patch. I could have one scene where my expression is controlling the output from the Aftershock, the next could be controlling the speed on my Lunar instead. It's pretty powerful and actually quite cool.
It does have a few limitations, it's a non device / Midi Channel blanket send. So if have a lot of devices attached to your hub, I currently have 4, and all of them are enabled for External control then they all get affected by the expression pedal (per patch). The hub doesn't control which device responds, it sends out a blanket instruction to all the attached pedals. It's the patch settings on each device (or global neuro scene) that control each pedal's response.
There's a slight lag (common with remote expression / Midi expression etc). Some times it's a bit glitchy with rapid expression movement and sometimes it doesn't track the "back to zero" and close back down either.
When the expression pedal operates, the device's Control LED's doesn't flicker with the expression movement, unlike a midi CC or direct connection. The hub light doesn't flicker either. There's no CC mapping in the Hub to make this expression work with non Source Audio pedals. The Neuro Hub currently doesn't have any Ultrawave expression controls available. It would be cool if this could be added to the hub, although I understand that the hub is pretty maxxed out.
So what is it useful for? If you already have a hub and midi control, it's another way to add a further expression pedal and control certain features of the pedals without introducing any more hardware other then another expression pedal. I'm now thinking of buying another Source Audio dual expression pedal next month to explore this further. I've been wanting to add a 3rd expression pedal to my board (I know...I'm a sick puppy) for a while and this seems to be a fairly flexible and easy method.
One further feature that becomes a bit more important and useful with this approach is the control input button on the top edge of the device. It turns off / on the ability to receive incoming expression commands from the Neuro hub. So if you've got a pedal being controlled by expression and you want to over ride it...push the button on the top edge.
- May 16, 2007
- 3,395
- 4,869
- Disclosures
- Volunteer developer/beta tester with Source Audio, Morningstar Engineering & MORTRIX
Yes there is, there’s a setting in the Hub options (cog icon in neuro desktop) to switch between MIDI out and MIDI Thru. I used to use my hub to send expression to my Future Impact before I bought my Morningstar controller. You can set it to send any single CC when moving the expression pedal (and the expression pedal will still control all the SA pedals).
heya here, i was pointed to this thread from another.
two main questions open:
1. the editor software for the C4 synth, is that also running on a M1mac ?
2. so, the C4 would give me also the *full* functionality of the "spectrum filter" ?
just with some more work involved, i´d guess.
b) But the "spectrum filter"........thats NOT able to do the C4 stuff, right ?
two main questions open:
1. the editor software for the C4 synth, is that also running on a M1mac ?
2. so, the C4 would give me also the *full* functionality of the "spectrum filter" ?
just with some more work involved, i´d guess.
b) But the "spectrum filter"........thats NOT able to do the C4 stuff, right ?
1. Yes, should be fine. Source Audio keeps up with this.
2. All the Spectrum sounds are in the C4, the only thing the Spectrum has over the C4 is that the two bonus assignable control knobs also have assignable “alt” functions giving you four assignable knobs (the C4 doesn’t have “alt” functions on those two extra knobs- apparently this was limited by the memory available after adding the extra synth functions) beyond the always present Volume, Blend, Sensitivity, and Input Gain.
3. Correct, the C4 adds synth tracking waveforms on top of the Spectrum’s more basic filter and pitch-shifting options.
ok, i will have some closer looks vs. this. ( vs.: those two extra knobs )
Thank you.
Yes, the editor works on the M1 Mac's. I use a MacBook Pro 13 M1 to do all my editing for my SA pedals and whatnot. Works flawlessly for me.
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OK this is probably going to be one of those TL;DR posts but here goes...
I'm pretty Midi stupid, but thanks in large part to this thread, and input from GMC and others, I have now set up my first Midi system...Boss MS-3 controlling my Neuro Hub and Aftershock...Small potatoes, but I gotta start somewhere right?
OK the questions.
1. Expression pedal...I have a Boss EV-30 that is controlling a lot of the onboard FX in the MS-3 (wah, volume etc...), but it's a dual output expression pedal, so I have a second output...So if I wanted to add expression to my Aftershock (and future SA pedals) would I run my second EV-30 output to the hub expression input? Or would I just leave it how I have it now and send expression through Midi from my MS-3? (if that's even a thing that's possible)
2. Pedal suggestions...I'm trying to find an octave up pedal that I gel with...Currently running the TCE Sub n Up, but I also have the Pitchfork and Nano Pog...All are cool, but none are really working for me...Is there a SA pedal that offers great tracking octave up, but can also do pitch bends (with an external expression pedal) similar in sound & function to the Digitech Whammy? The Pitchfork does do most of this I know, but it's obviously not midi capable, and I think it would be cool to add a pedal that can do the above, be midi capable and maybe add even more quirky weirdness too?
Thoughts? or am I asking too much from a single pedal?
Pic of the board today, was NPKD (new pedal knob day)
I'm pretty Midi stupid, but thanks in large part to this thread, and input from GMC and others, I have now set up my first Midi system...Boss MS-3 controlling my Neuro Hub and Aftershock...Small potatoes, but I gotta start somewhere right?
OK the questions.
1. Expression pedal...I have a Boss EV-30 that is controlling a lot of the onboard FX in the MS-3 (wah, volume etc...), but it's a dual output expression pedal, so I have a second output...So if I wanted to add expression to my Aftershock (and future SA pedals) would I run my second EV-30 output to the hub expression input? Or would I just leave it how I have it now and send expression through Midi from my MS-3? (if that's even a thing that's possible)
2. Pedal suggestions...I'm trying to find an octave up pedal that I gel with...Currently running the TCE Sub n Up, but I also have the Pitchfork and Nano Pog...All are cool, but none are really working for me...Is there a SA pedal that offers great tracking octave up, but can also do pitch bends (with an external expression pedal) similar in sound & function to the Digitech Whammy? The Pitchfork does do most of this I know, but it's obviously not midi capable, and I think it would be cool to add a pedal that can do the above, be midi capable and maybe add even more quirky weirdness too?
Thoughts? or am I asking too much from a single pedal?
Pic of the board today, was NPKD (new pedal knob day)
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Spectrum for Octave up and down! You could probably sweep the Octave with expression pedal through the Hub.OK this is probably going to be one of those TL;DR posts but here goes...
I'm pretty Midi stupid, but thanks in large part to this thread, and input from GMC and others, I have now set up my first Midi system...Boss MS-3 controlling my Neuro Hub and Aftershock...Small potatoes, but I gotta start somewhere right?
OK the questions.
1. Expression pedal...I have a Boss EV-30 that is controlling a lot of the onboard FX in the MS-3 (wah, volume etc...), but it's a dual output expression pedal, so I have a second output...So if I wanted to add expression to my Aftershock (and future SA pedals) would I run my second EV-30 output to the hub expression input? Or would I just leave it how I have it now and send expression through Midi from my MS-3? (if that's even a thing that's possible)
2. Pedal suggestions...I'm trying to find an octave up pedal that I gel with...Currently running the TCE Sub n Up, but I also have the Pitchfork and Nano Pog...All are cool, but none are really working for me...Is there a SA pedal that offers great tracking octave up, but can also do pitch bends (with an external expression pedal) similar in sound & function to the Digitech Whammy? The Pitchfork does do most of this I know, but it's obviously not midi capable, and I think it would be cool to add a pedal that can do the above, be midi capable and maybe add even more quirky weirdness too?
Thoughts? or am I asking too much from a single pedal?
Pic of the board today, was NPKD (new pedal knob day)
OK this is probably going to be one of those TL;DR posts but here goes...
I'm pretty Midi stupid, but thanks in large part to this thread, and input from GMC and others, I have now set up my first Midi system...Boss MS-3 controlling my Neuro Hub and Aftershock...Small potatoes, but I gotta start somewhere right?
OK the questions.
1. Expression pedal...I have a Boss EV-30 that is controlling a lot of the onboard FX in the MS-3 (wah, volume etc...), but it's a dual output expression pedal, so I have a second output...So if I wanted to add expression to my Aftershock (and future SA pedals) would I run my second EV-30 output to the hub expression input? Or would I just leave it how I have it now and send expression through Midi from my MS-3? (if that's even a thing that's possible)
2. Pedal suggestions...I'm trying to find an octave up pedal that I gel with...Currently running the TCE Sub n Up, but I also have the Pitchfork and Nano Pog...All are cool, but none are really working for me...Is there a SA pedal that offers great tracking octave up, but can also do pitch bends (with an external expression pedal) similar in sound & function to the Digitech Whammy? The Pitchfork does do most of this I know, but it's obviously not midi capable, and I think it would be cool to add a pedal that can do the above, be midi capable and maybe add even more quirky weirdness too?
Thoughts? or am I asking too much from a single pedal?
Pic of the board today, was NPKD (new pedal knob day)
I have the same MS-3 EV-30 combo, one output goes to the MS-3 and the other to the Hub to control an Aftershock and a C4
The octave sounds a bit muddy on my Spectrum with my 5 string when dropping below the E. Is this just a limitation of the pedal for is there a setting for this?
Thanks!
Rick
Even getting close to E is a challenge for a lot of octave pedals. My C4 also has settings for the frequency range, so make sure that’s set to B standard if the spectrum also has that. You may be able to tweak the sensitivity of the pedal, as well as avoiding higher harmonics from your bass (roll off tone, use neck pickups, etc). For myself, I think the C4s tracking is quite impressive, below E it starts to lose some of the tracking, but works better than other octaves I’ve tried.
I've found the octave tracking of the C4 and Spectrum to be the best there is.
Sound wise, an octave below a low E (41hz) is 20.2Hz. Not many speakers can reproduce sound this low frequency. It's not the pedal, just the limits of human hearing and speaker design. With most speaker drivers, they are designed around a magic description called an F3 number. This is the lowest frequency where the cab only looses 3db. Any lower than this point and there's a pretty rapid roll off requiring a lot of power for not a lot of SPL. A diminishing return. Unfortunately, most Cab's aren't listed with this value, just a vague frequency range.
Thanks Derek I will have a look to see if I can find that setting on the Spectrum
Something I also do is raise the LoRetain setting, which should reduce the volume of the low octave on the lower strings as it’s usually not needed. I haven’t really experimented with it though, I just cranked it up assuming that would be the result
Another question about the octave down feature in the spectrum/c4.
If you play guitar through it in octave down mode, can it be made to sound like a bass ?
I'm asking about using only the spectrum/c4.
Reason for this is that I bought a new guitar a couple days ago and fantasizing about letting the nails on my right hand grow and use'm instead of a pick.
Long nails makes it hard to play bass.
If you play guitar through it in octave down mode, can it be made to sound like a bass ?
I'm asking about using only the spectrum/c4.
Reason for this is that I bought a new guitar a couple days ago and fantasizing about letting the nails on my right hand grow and use'm instead of a pick.
Long nails makes it hard to play bass.
The C4 octave is meant to simulate a Boss OC-2, which sounds more synth-like than a real bass. As long as that is the sound you are expecting, the C4/Spectrum might do what you want.
