Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Gibs210]

I have a couple of questions about the new midi adapter. I'm currently using a neuro hub for two SA pedals but considering the adapter.

Will it allow me to use PC messages to change patches on my C4 and Ultrawave without changing the bypass status?

Can you use the midi through into a second SA pedal or do you need another adapter for that?

First question yes, but you will need to save each preset so that the midi recall is on and save the preset with the pedal bypassed.

second question, you’ll need a second adapter for 2 pedals, it’s a 1 to 1 ratio. The midi thru is for midi compliance while the pedal out communicates with our one series pedals.

 

[odarellmc]

I have a couple of questions about the new midi adapter. I'm currently using a neuro hub for two SA pedals but considering the adapter.

Will it allow me to use PC messages to change patches on my C4 and Ultrawave without changing the bypass status?

Can you use the midi through into a second SA pedal or do you need another adapter for that?

Are you asking if there's a way to identify different patches without hearing them first?

 

[GMC]

I have a couple of questions about the new midi adapter. I'm currently using a neuro hub for two SA pedals but considering the adapter.

Will it allow me to use PC messages to change patches on my C4 and Ultrawave without changing the bypass status?

Can you use the midi through into a second SA pedal or do you need another adapter for that?

Personally, I'm not so stoked about PC change ability for the C4 and Ultrawave. It's more for the old One Series like the Modulators and Dirt pedals that don't natively have the ability to change patches via a midi command.

The C4 and Ultrawave can use Midi CC to call up a patch form their 128 on board patch memory and depending on the type of Midi CC, you can call up that patch either bypass or engaged. On my C4, Atlas, EQ2, Ultrawave and Spectrum I have CC103 mapped to Patch recall / Pedal bypassed and CC 104 to Patch recall / Pedal engaged. I just add the patch number I want recalling as a value. 0-127 on the midi controller or 1-128 on the device itself.

PC change just calls up the device patch and has no control over the bypass / engaged status. Unless you pre-set it's status in each patch.

 

[dalo]

Are you asking if there's a way to identify different patches without hearing them first?

I am currently using a Morningstar MC6 and Neuro Hub. With this method there are cc messages to either engage the preset in bypass or engage it with the pedal engaged. I would prefer to be able to change patches without changing the bypass state.

IE if the pedal is in bypass and I change the patch, it stays in bypass. But if it is active, the pedal stays on and just changes patches. This would allow me to preload patches and step on the C4 footswitch to engage the pedal. I think PC messages may achieve this?

Hope that makes sense.

 

[sunbeast]

Personally, I'm not so stoked about PC change ability for the C4 and Ultrawave. It's more for the old One Series like the Modulators and Dirt pedals that don't natively have the ability to change patches via a midi command.

The C4 and Ultrawave can use Midi CC to call up a patch form their 128 on board patch memory and depending on the type of Midi CC, you can call up that patch either bypass or engaged. On my C4, Atlas, EQ2, Ultrawave and Spectrum I have CC103 mapped to Patch recall / Pedal bypassed and CC 104 to Patch recall / Pedal engaged. I just add the patch number I want recalling as a value. 0-127 on the midi controller or 1-128 on the device itself.

PC change just calls up the device patch and has no control over the bypass / engaged status. Unless you pre-set it's status in each patch.

I don't know of a way around having that "Preset Recall State" option affect each preset using PC messages, since you only have the choice of "Engage" or "Disengage" and no "Retain Current State" (though to be fair I haven't been able to try it until the new MIDI box arrives!)

I am currently using a Morningstar MC6 and Neuro Hub. With this method there are cc messages to either engage the preset in bypass or engage it with the pedal engaged. I would prefer to be able to change patches without changing the bypass state.

IE if the pedal is in bypass and I change the patch, it stays in bypass. But if it is active, the pedal stays on and just changes patches. This would allow me to preload patches and step on the C4 footswitch to engage the pedal. I think PC messages may achieve this?

Hope that makes sense.

I think the problem with that is the "Preset Recall State" option that is part of every preset, which with PC messages (I believe) will override the current state of your pedal with whatever you have selected for that particular preset (the same way that the current CC combination "patch-change + engage state" messages do).
There may be some more simple option I'm not seeing to get around this (though that setting being on a per-patch basis makes it hard to see other options), but with the Morningstar controllers you can set different messages for different types of taps so it would be possible to program one press action of a button to move presets while engaging the pedal and a separate press action to move presets while disengaging using the current CC messages (or you could program both of these messages to separate footswitches). There are also incremental preset-change CCs that you can custom map, but I assume these also revert to the "Preset Recall State" saved in each preset. Not ideal, but I don't see a CC map option or other pedal setting to override that "Preset Recall State" option.
In other words, I don't see a way that the new MIDI box will improve your situation here as PC messages will just default to the engage state selected within the preset (so even less flexible than the CC options)

 

[dalo]

I don't know of a way around having that "Preset Recall State" option affect each preset using PC messages, since you only have the choice of "Engage" or "Disengage" and no "Retain Current State" (though to be fair I haven't been able to try it until the new MIDI box arrives!)

I think the problem with that is the "Preset Recall State" option that is part of every preset, which with PC messages (I believe) will override the current state of your pedal with whatever you have selected for that particular preset (the same way that the current CC combination "patch-change + engage state" messages do).
There may be some more simple option I'm not seeing to get around this (though that setting being on a per-patch basis makes it hard to see other options), but with the Morningstar controllers you can set different messages for different types of taps so it would be possible to program one press action of a button to move presets while engaging the pedal and a separate press action to move presets while disengaging using the current CC messages (or you could program both of these messages to separate footswitches). There are also incremental preset-change CCs that you can custom map, but I assume these also revert to the "Preset Recall State" saved in each preset. Not ideal, but I don't see a CC map option or other pedal setting to override that "Preset Recall State" option.
In other words, I don't see a way that the new MIDI box will improve your situation here as PC messages will just default to the engage state selected within the preset (so even less flexible than the CC options)

Thanks! This was really helpful (and saved me money)

 

[sunbeast]

Thanks! This was really helpful (and saved me money)

Hopefully I'm wrong, just giving my take on how it works- I have one of the new MIDI boxes on the way to replace my Hub, so I can verify for sure when it arrives

 

[GMC]

I am currently using a Morningstar MC6 and Neuro Hub. With this method there are cc messages to either engage the preset in bypass or engage it with the pedal engaged. I would prefer to be able to change patches without changing the bypass state.

IE if the pedal is in bypass and I change the patch, it stays in bypass. But if it is active, the pedal stays on and just changes patches. This would allow me to preload patches and step on the C4 footswitch to engage the pedal. I think PC messages may achieve this?

Hope that makes sense.

I have my CC midi map set so that CC103 loads a patch (using the value) bypassed. I also use CC104 to load a patch Engaged. PC just calls the patch state depending on how I previously save the patch (bypassed or engaged). If you want a PC message to load your specific patches in a bypassed state then you will need to open each patch on the pedal via the Neuro Desktop set it to bypass and then save it.

Some of the older One Series units don't have any CC facility to call up patches, CC103 or 104. you can change the engine via CC but not the whole patch change. Having the ability to perform PC patch change is really useful. I have a Lunar and the only way I can change patches is to create a neuro Hub scene and sned a Midi PC to the neuro hub. That's life, that's it's limiations and that's how it works. However, this new midi dongle will allow me to access the internal presets on my Lunar via Midi PC. That's a serious step forwards in my books.
I'll be ordering one at the weekend. My next question to myself is which SA pedal do I plug into the new spare spot of my Neuro hub? Maybe my Atlas.

 

[Basselink]

Hey friends!

Our SA168 MIDI Adaptor is live today.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Turns any One Series pedal into a pedal that is fully compatible with MIDI.
Access all 128 Preset slots for pedals Spectrum and later
Access all 6 preset slots for pedals Vertigo - True Spring.

Looks like it is up on Sweetwater but not Guitar Center - will GC be carrying it? Thanks.

 

[Felkara]

In the midst of all the MIDI adaptor excitement I am pleased to report that I found a Lunar at a lovely little music shop in London and while I hadn't planned on picking up one of the modulation trio quite so soon it was an absolute steal new so didn't really have a choice.

Very excited about getting stuck in with it. More importantly, it's an absolutely gorgeous shade of blue - the marketing photos don't really do it justice.

 

[MascisMan]

Looks like it is up on Sweetwater but not Guitar Center - will GC be carrying it? Thanks.

I bought it online direct from Source Audio's website if that helps.

 

[rsmith601]

Looks like it is up on Sweetwater but not Guitar Center - will GC be carrying it? Thanks.

I kind of doubt GC will carry it. They are not big on stocking our accessories relative to some other dealers.

 

[moley6knipe]

…change patches on my C4 and Ultrawave without changing the bypass status?

If you’ve already got things hooked up with hub and want to simply browse presets without changing engaged status, you could map the CCs for increment / decrement preset on each pedal that you need this for? Custom mapping via rhe Neuro editor, here’s mine:

 

[sunbeast]

If you’ve already got things hooked up with hub and want to simply browse presets without changing engaged status, you could map the CCs for increment / decrement preset on each pedal that you need this for? Custom mapping via rhe Neuro editor, here’s mine:
View attachment 4941293

I’ve never tried this, but does each preset then default to the “Preset Recall State” setting selected in each preset in the Neuro app? I assumed that it would, but if not it could be a work-around as long as you have the presets in the C4 saved in the exact order you want

 

[moley6knipe]

From what I remember, it just loads the next/last preset and if it was engaged it stays engaged, if it was bypassed it stays bypassed.

 

[MascisMan]

Those that have tried the Zio Boost. Is the switch a hard click or soft click?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Those that have tried the Zio Boost. Is the switch a hard click or soft click?

The former.

 

[MascisMan]

That is unfortunate. I play on a silent stage. Not a big fan of hard click switches. Probably wouldn't be a deal breaker though if I was strategic about it.

 

[Basselink]

I kind of doubt GC will carry it. They are not big on stocking our accessories relative to some other dealers.

I'm sure this is a dumb question but why is the midi 5-pin cable that appears to come with the adapter a female end on the side that goes to the device that will be used as a controller? I think the midi out on most devices that might be used as a controller (like my Boss MS-3) is female - so does that mean I need to have a short midi cable to connect the controller to the cable which plugs into the adapter?

 

[MascisMan]

I'm sure this is a dumb question but why is the midi 5-pin cable that appears to come with the adapter a female end on the side that goes to the device that will be used as a controller? I think the midi out on most devices that might be used as a controller (like my Boss MS-3) is female - so does that mean I need to have a short midi cable to connect the controller to the cable which plugs into the adapter?

View attachment 4942633

I hooked up my adapter and thought the same thing. Very strange. Fortunately I had a male MIDI 5 pin to 3.5mm TRS cable in the drawer that I used instead. No problems.

This is the one I am using:

Boss BMIDI-2-35 Type A 3.5mm TRS to Male 5-pin DIN MIDI Cable - 2 foot

Though I think this one would work as well:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LAHUT1Q?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details