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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#15,941
_Tay_ said:
Currently playing a passive Gibson NR T Bird into my board, then out the ZIO into my Rumble 500 FX Return for amp sound. My board is set up for ampless really into an RNDI

I play funk, rock original stuff but in a couple of covers bands where one is like 'pop through the ages' and the other is a funk/soul group.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Gives me some perspective.

I loved my Rumble 410 rig for many years. I think the Rumble 'character' of sound is pleasing and adaptable. I can see how the Zio & JPTR Jive would boost that nicely.

Used to play in an alt rock band and the Jive might well have been desirable a couple of years back. Now into electro/dancey/dubby/funk band. As I said, delighted with new UW/C4 combos. Jive doesn't really bring much else and it's noisy?
I've also got a Darkglass Harmonic Booster, which is nice clean vol/EQ boost.

So..... I'm bit uncertain re Zio. For sure, it will be top quality intelligent SA approach to sound options & build. Certainly the focus for bass boost is v nice. But I'm doing that already with UW EQ, Comp & Hp/Lp

Can I resist a shiny new pedal for birthday?? It's when the "ooh, shall I invest in something different" thinking kicks in and 2 hours later, you've convinced yourself with demos & 'research' .... Ha ha.
 
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#15,943
Hey y'all, I ran into a... not problem, but curiosity(?) with my pedals and wanted to see if anyone else experienced this.

To sum it up as quickly as possible: changing over to True Bypass from the Buffered bypass sounds much more like plugging straight into the amp. For further context, I had every other pedal in my setup as True except for c4 at the front and UltraWave before volume pedal. Turning those both back to True gave me back a few frequencies in the low end that disappeared with Buffered on. (More context! I have six pedals and a volume pedal in my chain. Doesn't seem like a super long chain, and I was just using the buffered option to remove on/off clicks.)

I'm not sure if it's a Source Audio problem or a "Joel doesn't understand well enough how buffered bypass works" problem. I fully concede it could be the latter!
 
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#15,944
Billyears IV said:
Jive doesn't really bring much else and it's noisy?
Click to expand...

The jive is a zvex super hard on with the mods that freestompboxes and diystompboxes would recommend you make on your SHO copy -some folk love it but I’m not sure it’s in the same league as source audio ….

jam.majors said:
Hey y'all, I ran into a... not problem, but curiosity(?) with my pedals and wanted to see if anyone else experienced this.

To sum it up as quickly as possible: changing over to True Bypass from the Buffered bypass sounds much more like plugging straight into the amp. For further context, I had every other pedal in my setup as True except for c4 at the front and UltraWave before volume pedal. Turning those both back to True gave me back a few frequencies in the low end that disappeared with Buffered on. (More context! I have six pedals and a volume pedal in my chain. Doesn't seem like a super long chain, and I was just using the buffered option to remove on/off clicks.)

I'm not sure if it's a Source Audio problem or a "Joel doesn't understand well enough how buffered bypass works" problem. I fully concede it could be the latter!
Click to expand...
does the bottom come back, or is the top end removed with true bypass? (Which sounds similar)
 
#15,945
Luke the Fluke said:
does the bottom come back, or is the top end removed with true bypass? (Which sounds similar)
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion: I'm saying that with True Bypass, the pedals sounds just like if I plugged straight into the amp (when the pedals are off / bypassed). But if I use the Buffered bypass, then I lose some low-end. I haven't used any more advanced tools than my ears to determine the difference, but at the moment I find the Buffered setting to be not-preferable.
I did try to A/B in a way to remove as much bias as possible, but I'm only one guy.
 
#15,946
jam.majors said:
Sorry for the confusion: I'm saying that with True Bypass, the pedals sounds just like if I plugged straight into the amp (when the pedals are off / bypassed). But if I use the Buffered bypass, then I lose some low-end. I haven't used any more advanced tools than my ears to determine the difference, but at the moment I find the Buffered setting to be not-preferable.
I did try to A/B in a way to remove as much bias as possible, but I'm only one guy.
Click to expand...
True bypass SHOULD sound just like you're going straight to the amp, unless your cable lengths are significantly different (straight into the amp vs. with pedals)

Buffered bypass in principle might keep you from losing highs in a long cable run --- are you sure you're experiencing a loss of low-end or are the highs coming back?
 
#15,947
Adamixoye said:
True bypass SHOULD sound just like you're going straight to the amp, unless your cable lengths are significantly different (straight into the amp vs. with pedals)

Buffered bypass in principle might keep you from losing highs in a long cable run --- are you sure you're experiencing a loss of low-end or are the highs coming back?
Click to expand...
I get more deep rumble when Buffered is off. Again, I fully concede not perfectly understanding the purposes and advantages/disadvantages for buffered (God forbid I google it! :laugh:).
But I am curious if anyone else has lost low end while using Buffered. And it's more than possible that my particular setup is causing these issues when Buffered is engaged.
 
#15,948
Latest update on my SA MIDI chain. Just added a Voicelive Touch 2 vocal processor on the mic stand that is being MIDI controlled via the MIDI through connection on the Neuro Hub. MIDI commands from my tablet running Set List Maker are controlling the DMC micro PRO, SA Neuro Hub and the TC Helicon Voicelive Touch 2 in that order. The Neuro Hub is controlling the C4 Synth, Gemini Chorus and Ultra Wave Bass pedals.

Used it last Saturday on stage and everything performed flawlessly, so the additional MIDI gear did not affect the pedalboard gear function. Of course I had a couple days of troubleshooting to get Set List Maker MIDI commands and the poorly documented Voicelive MIDI command format set up to work correctly. Ugh.
20240122_115332.jpg
 
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#15,949
jam.majors said:
I get more deep rumble when Buffered is off. Again, I fully concede not perfectly understanding the purposes and advantages/disadvantages for buffered (God forbid I google it! :laugh:).
But I am curious if anyone else has lost low end while using Buffered. And it's more than possible that my particular setup is causing these issues when Buffered is engaged.
Click to expand...
A good buffer in between a passive bass and a long cable run usually just restores high-end that you would otherwise lose due to loading and capacitance across a long cable/bypassed pedal pathway. The amount of high-end that you get back can be pretty significant depending on the signal path (particularly noticeable if you have a tweeter or other high-frequency driver in your bass cabinet/monitor). 20 years ago I actually used to leave a bypassed Tubescreamer in my signal path all the time because it had buffered bypass and made a huge difference when using long cables and a handful of other true bypass effects into my amp.
I think the only reason a good buffer might result in low-end roll-off would be an impedance mismatch somewhere. That said, I haven’t tested the buffer on my C4 to say whether it is “good”, though I’d assume so!
 
#15,950
sunbeast said:
A good buffer in between a passive bass and a long cable run usually just restores high-end that you would otherwise lose due to loading and capacitance across a long cable/bypassed pedal pathway. The amount of high-end that you get back can be pretty significant depending on the signal path (particularly noticeable if you have a tweeter or other high-frequency driver in your bass cabinet/monitor). 20 years ago I actually used to leave a bypassed Tubescreamer in my signal path all the time because it had buffered bypass and made a huge difference when using long cables and a handful of other true bypass effects into my amp.
I think the only reason a good buffer might result in low-end roll-off would be an impedance mismatch somewhere. That said, I haven’t tested the buffer on my C4 to say whether it is “good”, though I’d assume so!
Click to expand...
I don't doubt it's a good buffer, just my experience with it (or any buffer really).
It's possible that there's something wonky in the way a different buffer behaves or in a different pedal. I'm not trying to dog SA or anything. It's just one of those things: you use pedals for a long time and then get into midi and controllers and feel like you have your feet under you and BAM: new area of unknowledge exposed.
 
#15,952
Luke the Fluke said:
What sort of frequency? sub-bass being filtered out would be seen as a good thing if it is what it's doing?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what frequency, but it was high enough to make me think my HPF was screwing me up. I really don't know, but it would definitely be nearer to 80 than 20Hz. So not just rumble, but also "roundness" (to continue adding unclear phrases...).
 
#15,953
Good news, I started over with the power supply routing, and the strange noise from the Atlas went away. It was on it's own single send from the power supply, but the other two digital pedals weren't. Anyway, I rearranged and rewired, and voila we're back in action.

This is set up to mount on a percussion stand for hand-use. The Spectrum connects to an expression pedal on the floor. The board routes to a Wah on the floor, and a looper, if/when they're present. I'm ready to move out of technician mode and spend some time playing!

IMG_2435 2.jpg
 
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#15,955
Jigmay said:
Has anyone tried this/is it possible/is it ill-advised?

You have a board with all the SA pedals close to the amp behind you, then have a long midi cord run out to front of stage with just a Soleman to control one's settings? Make sense?
Click to expand...
I can't remember the length at which long MIDI cable runs become problematic per the MIDI spec, I think it's like 50' to 100'? You could also do some sort of Bluetooth adapter like a CME WIDI Master or Jack.
 
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#15,956
Jigmay said:
Has anyone tried this/is it possible/is it ill-advised?

You have a board with all the SA pedals close to the amp behind you, then have a long midi cord run out to front of stage with just a Soleman to control one's settings? Make sense?
Click to expand...

Billy Strings has drawers full of active pedals on his backline, controlled by midi upfront. It's a pretty whacky rig rundown... ("The Rack" discussion is somewhere around the 41 minute mark)

 
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#15,958
Adamixoye said:
I can't remember the length at which long MIDI cable runs become problematic per the MIDI spec, I think it's like 50' to 100'? You could also do some sort of Bluetooth adapter like a CME WIDI Master or Jack.
Click to expand...
I have my main pedalboard ( full midi control) that all my pedals sit on and place it back by my amp or out of the way. I have a separate “Control board” that consists of an expression pedal an aux switch and a Morningstar MC6 Pro. The control board is powered by a battery bank and it sends midi out via a CME WidiMaster . The main board has a 1 in 10 out midi splitter that has a WidiMaster plugged in to the midi in / out.
Works great but I carry a 10’ midi cord as a backup plan.
I have often thought about building a rack with drawers.
I can also control my main board with my iPad and Bandhelper and a Bluetooth page turner.
M
 
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#15,959
Jigmay said:
Has anyone tried this/is it possible/is it ill-advised?

You have a board with all the SA pedals close to the amp behind you, then have a long midi cord run out to front of stage with just a Soleman to control one's settings? Make sense?
Click to expand...

The deal killer for me is having a tuner/mute in front. Unless you want to give that up, you're going to be running a bunch of cables. Too many to make it worth it, imo.

I could see it working for a touring act.
 
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#15,960
So to solve the tuner issue, get a couple wireless sets, go from your bass to the tuner on the floor in front of you with one, and the tuner out to the first pedal on your big board with the other.

I don’t use wirelesses enough to know if these are low enough latency to do this these days.
 
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