Speaking of neck dive...

[NorCal Dog]

I was slightly careful with my words ('appear to have issues' - just speaking from seeing the pics in this thread) and was not knocking your product - just saying that it might not seem like the thing for everyone!

question:

- the lower strap button is still attached by a flexible strap, while the horn button acts as a fulcrum. Aren't you still going to have a degree of motion, restricted by the length of the small belt strap?

also some might not like:

- the look (true of everything of course... but all comes back to choice!)

- it's attached to you - a pain if you swap instruments a lot

- it's not a DIY solution.

it's all good, i was also pointing out that alot of players can be critical without first hand experience to back it up.

as far as the fulcrum thing, it doesn't have a teeter totter effect even with a 2lb weight attached to the headstock,, so that's a non issue.

i personally wear the strap under a gig shirt ( or sportcoat ) at gigs & just leave it on during breaks, i use straploks on all my basses so it takes like 2sec to take off, or switch basses.

granted, it's not going to win any kind of fashion awards, ( as there's plenty of fashion straps to choose from ) that's not what it was designed for, but it is designed as one of the best tools that i've come across to help players that have issues with:
back issues
shoulder issues
neck issues
heavy basses
out of balance basses
neck dive

or any & all combinations of the above

 

[NorCal Dog]

None of these guys are putting significant arm weight onto the instrument.

Got it figured out now?

true,,, but i guarantee ya that everyone of 'em is holding that bass up with their left hand

 

[NickBEADG]

true,,, but i guarantee ya that everyone of 'em is holding that bass up with their left hand

Trujillo is using his knees, lol

 

[Jeff Bonny]

true,,, but i guarantee ya that everyone of 'em is holding that bass up with their left hand

Casady probably is holding it up some with his left hand. Until you swap the tuners to something light those basses are all a little neck heavy. Speaking from personal experience though once you do make the change you don't need to hold it up.

With Jaco and Trujillo though it's hard to say but either of those basses could be balanced well enough not to require any left hand help.

 

[Showdown]

The best solution is to actually hold the damn thing...

Which limits the movement of your left hand, and thus your playing. No thanks. You can play better if your hand is free to play.

 

[micgtr71]

I wonder if going to lighter tuners increased the possibility of dead spots on the fretboard?

It didn't in my case. I don't understand the effect tuners would have on dead spots...

 

[marchone]

I don't understand the effect tuners would have on dead spots...

Like a Fatfinger. Thicker headstocks, heavier tuners, etc.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/fatfinger-headstock-clamp-8149/

 

[Showdown]

It didn't in my case. I don't understand the effect tuners would have on dead spots...

Adding weight to the headstock can move the dead spot to a point off the neck, so it is a reasonable question whether taking weight off increases them. But IME the answer is no.

 

[bigmoosepi]

And also, even if you do have your arm resting on the bass, as you change techniques and positions the amount of pressure is going to be varying, still leading to annoying movement.

Makes no difference. I go between the neck joint, pickup and bridge with no neck dive because my hand is ON THE BASS.

the "varying pressure" doesn't do jack. Why do you need to overcomplicate things?

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Makes no difference. I go between the neck joint, pickup and bridge with no neck dive because my hand is ON THE BASS.

the "varying pressure" doesn't do jack. Why do you need to overcomplicate things?

Because you continue to ignore the fact that not everyone plays with the same technique as you?

 

[bigmoosepi]

I didn't ignore it at all, I already accepted it here:

fair enough I guess.

I was just addressing someone trying to tell me how I do something.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I didn't ignore it at all, I already accepted it here:

I was just addressing someone telling me how I do something

Ok, you're right. Sorry.

 

[Primakurtz]

Link Removed

Hang a pair off the end pin - works great, and impresses the ladies.

I hate neck dive; my Ibanez SRs have none.

 

[Immigrant]

Jack's posing in that photo. When he's actually playing, the bass is more on his right hip than in the photo above, kind of pointing at two o'clock. That also helps cure dive.

 

[Showdown]

Makes no difference. I go between the neck joint, pickup and bridge with no neck dive because my hand is ON THE BASS.

the "varying pressure" doesn't do jack. Why do you need to overcomplicate things?

What kind of bass do you have? Because I'm willing to bet you don't have very bad neck dive. I have one bass that will dive to the floor if you take your hand off the neck. I can guarantee you that the weight of your arm will not stop it without a lot of pressure - so much that it will inhibit your playing. I know this because I used a "Heads Up" weighted strap with the full three lead weights (24 oz.) and it still did it.

It is one of my '76 Thunderbirds. It is all original and in very good shape. I bought it new, so it has sentimental value. I could correct a lot of the neck dive by moving the strap button to the back of the neck heel like on my other '76 (it is on the upper bout), but I won't drill a hole in my vintage bass.

 

[bigmoosepi]

I just play a 62 avri pbass which has a little neck dive probably from the huge machine heads on that thing but it's not much.

I have played friends thunderbirds with no issues. A few other basses in shops that have definately had neck dive when I have no hands on the thing but in a playing position I don't have any problems despite the bass. My forearms are pretty big and meaty and I have shrek hands though. Keep in mind no more than like 10 minutes or so. I haven't gone and played a 2 hour set with one.

I just didn't realise it wasn't normal to rest your arm or hand on the instrument.

Seems to me it depends on a lot of things like your height, shape and proportions of your body. Some are going to have problems that others won't.

 

[Rotation]

With a light bass, a decent strap may well all that's needed - as the amount of friction it needs to provide is less than a heavy bass with the same amount of diveyness.

With my Jag SS I use a pretty thin strap, but I also use a Planet Waves Gel Shoulder Pad, sewn on to the strap through the seams (not the gel bits!). That's enough to stop the dive.

Hadn't heard about the gel pad thing, good to know!

The weights/balances of Jag short-scales seem to be all over the place. When I got my bass I tied some weight off the heel strap button to see what it would take to get it to balance at 50 degrees or so above horizontal in worst case (slippy strap & shirt). Result: three pounds. Tried a wide strap and grippy shirt, still dived to the floor.

Next I removed all four tuners. Balanced fine in worst case without adding weight to the body.

The four new tuners will be a bit less than half the weight of the stock ones. Based on experiments with removing two stock tuners, it will balance around horizontal which is OK but not what I want for playing while standing. I'll try it with my 3-1/2" neoprene strap and a grippy shirt, but expect to at least move the rear strap button higher if not add weight.

 

[Rotation]

it's all good, i was also pointing out that alot of players can be critical without first hand experience to back it up.

as far as the fulcrum thing, it doesn't have a teeter totter effect even with a 2lb weight attached to the headstock,, so that's a non issue.

i personally wear the strap under a gig shirt ( or sportcoat ) at gigs & just leave it on during breaks, i use straploks on all my basses so it takes like 2sec to take off, or switch basses.

granted, it's not going to win any kind of fashion awards, ( as there's plenty of fashion straps to choose from ) that's not what it was designed for, but it is designed as one of the best tools that i've come across to help players that have issues with:
back issues
shoulder issues
neck issues
heavy basses
out of balance basses
neck dive

or any & all combinations of the above

Just to say I applaud what NorCal Dog is doing. My own tendency is toward making the instrument light & balanced but that's likely because I have much slack as a hobbyist, and no commitment to any brand or bodystyle of bass.

 

[Meddle]

Which limits the movement of your left hand, and thus your playing. No thanks. You can play better if your hand is free to play.

Quite ironic coming from a T-bird user.

 

[Showdown]

Quite ironic coming from a T-bird user.

Have you read the thread? I have commented on that.

One of my Thunderbirds I don't play because of neck dive. The other two are corrected by Ultra-Lite tuners on one and Heads Up weighted strap, along with the strap button at the neck heel. I can let go of the neck on both of them and it stays right where it was.

What was that you were saying?

The advice I give comes from hard earned experience. After years of working to eliminate neck dive I think I have learned a lot, as you can see from the picture. The other Tbird, a '76 will do the same thing, as will both my Peavey Dyna 5s, and my Ibanez GSR-206 and Brice HXB-406. All of them suffered from bad neck dive and all of them will stay put now when I take my hand off using either Ultra-Lite tuners, a weighted strap, moving the strap button or in the case of the Tbird pictured both tuners and weighted strap. I prefer the tuners first because they work most of the time. For the Tbird in the picture the tuners almost did it, enough that most people would not have a problem. But my back is ultra sensitive, so I also needed a weighted strap.