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Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

#35,901
Got my set of five shielded 35mm piezo transducer discs for my drums.

Made a post on a drum forum about my interest in picking up the acoustic properties of the drums to run through effects. Not triggers and a brain. They just gave me a couple links to how to DIY an electronic trigger kit for a brain and remove the acoustic properties of the drums... Said piezos don't work the way I want. I brought up acoustic guitar pickups and I guess killed my thread.

My mini mixer is 4 inputs to 1 out. So I guess snare gets its two pickups (humbucker and piezo) tied together. And the bass drum and two toms get a piezo each.

Got to figure out a way to build a wood little rectangle routed for a humbucker, that then mounts to a snare stand under the wires. Then a way to mount each piezo inside for a good solid response, but not interfere too much with the regular drum sound.

Ideas please!
 
#35,903
The_Janitor said:
OK, I kind of want one of these:
Danelectro Baby Sitar Review | Premier Guitar
Click to expand...

Neat, it would be fun to get that bridge and mount it on a normal shaped guitar. Oh and I wonder would a slide would sound like used on a sitar guitar?
sitar bridge.jpg
 
#35,904
Blank_0101 said:
Got my set of five shielded 35mm piezo transducer discs for my drums.

Made a post on a drum forum about my interest in picking up the acoustic properties of the drums to run through effects. Not triggers and a brain. They just gave me a couple links to how to DIY an electronic trigger kit for a brain and remove the acoustic properties of the drums... Said piezos don't work the way I want. I brought up acoustic guitar pickups and I guess killed my thread.

My mini mixer is 4 inputs to 1 out. So I guess snare gets its two pickups (humbucker and piezo) tied together. And the bass drum and two toms get a piezo each.

Got to figure out a way to build a wood little rectangle routed for a humbucker, that then mounts to a snare stand under the wires. Then a way to mount each piezo inside for a good solid response, but not interfere too much with the regular drum sound.

Ideas please!
Click to expand...
You'll need to run the piezos through mic preamps for the high impedance input. Will be rather hard for them to work with pedal based effects without some high impedance buffer.
The humbucker for the snare might not pickup much just make sure it's grounded to the snare.
 
#35,906
mbelue said:
You'll need to run the piezos through mic preamps for the high impedance input. Will be rather hard for them to work with pedal based effects without some high impedance buffer.
The humbucker for the snare might not pickup much just make sure it's grounded to the snare.
Click to expand...

Does This (the mixer part) not function as said buffer?
image.jpeg

Otherwise I'll have to figure out the buffer thing.

I read a guy used a strat pickup and liked the smack it got. Not much else was said... Kinda just seeing what happens, I'm thinking now, the pickup would be in a small wood setup with probably a tone and volume and Jack to pre control it and level it with the piezos.
 
#35,907
Blank_0101 said:
Does This (the mixer part) not function as said buffer? View attachment 748321
Otherwise I'll have to figure out the buffer thing.

I read a guy used a strat pickup and liked the smack it got. Not much else was said... Kinda just seeing what happens, I'm thinking now, the pickup would be in a small wood setup with probably a tone and volume and Jack to pre control it and level it with the piezos.
Click to expand...
45k impedance on input is going to make the piezo sound quacky and chirpy. You sound be looking for like 1M.
 
#35,909
The_Janitor said:
Askrere, you'd much be better off using mics. You can find a cheap mixer w/ 5-6 mic preamps, then run your L/R out to your effects.
Click to expand...

That's kind of what I was thinking too. I also kind of assume everytime you hit the drum there's going to be a loud tone-less bang from the peizos seeing as the peizos are going to jump and cause a spike in the signal. But I'm also interested to know if it does work as he expects.
 
#35,910
mbelue said:
45k impedance on input is going to make the piezo sound quacky and chirpy. You sound be looking for like 1M.
Click to expand...

Is 45k the mixer stock input?

The_Janitor said:
Askrere, you'd much be better off using mics. You can find a cheap mixer w/ 5-6 mic preamps, then run your L/R out to your effects.
Click to expand...

You mean actual mics or just use a cheap mic mixer with my piezos?

I was going to mic it in addition too the piezos. I got a wall contact pzm mic, an electro voice pl80c and I found a spare 12" speaker and tom to make a sub mic.
 
#35,911
I meant just use actual mics. Even a cheap drumkit set from CAD (or Pyle if you REALLY want to slum it) is going to sound pretty decent. You'd just need the mic preamps, cheapest way to get those is to buy an inexpensive mixer.

What's your desired end result in using the piezos/pickups?
 
#35,912
@askrere If you've got the stuff already there it's no reason not to try it.
If you're going for trippy psychedelic rhythmic noises you'll get it from that mixer and piezo. It just won't reflect much the actual sound of the drums.
It will be strange.
Maybe even great especially run through a limiter reverb and a synth.
If you are looking for a cheap solution to a standard percussion problem these parts probably won't give good result.
But don't let us deter your enthusiasm if you are trying to do something different/weird.
 
#35,913
The_Janitor said:
I meant just use actual mics. Even a cheap drumkit set from CAD (or Pyle if you REALLY want to slum it) is going to sound pretty decent. You'd just need the mic preamps, cheapest way to get those is to buy an inexpensive mixer.

What's your desired end result in using the piezos/pickups?
Click to expand...



Not as weird, but basically I want the piezos for that. To pickup the sounds and things the ear and mic might not hear the same or at all.

When activated, hypothetically when running perfect and no impedance or EQ issues, any part of the drum they occupy or stands attached to them becomes playable. Then a tiny ass kit becomes more than you think and ... who knows sounds weird, no one on drum forums could come up with an example, so I got to?

Worst case scenario everything's tinny and feeding back while constantly triggering each other in a nightmarish cacophony.
 
#35,916
mbelue said:
Found it!
Here is a link for a cheap DIY high impedance preamp.
This circuit is generally highly regarded among DIYers, no personal experience. This should be cheap/easy for Dear Old Dad to whip up on a Vero board for ya, if you could persuade him. Putting one of these after each piezo "should" vastly improve the response and output of them. 3M impedance on it.
Click to expand...

So I Would need one per disc, I can't run one buffer after the mixer master out to affect them all? I think I have all the parts and tools here for that build hopefully. But if it was a multi think I'd need to drill a pedal box with like 4 in/out buffers

I just went to check the local drum store for some hardware bits. He wanted twice new Amazon prime prices for used parts, and I asked about installing floor tom leg brackets and said only the cost of parts, then added $50 labor while he was saying that. Then when asked all together he prices it out and said over $100... (A random $20 more than what he said when itemizing it?)

For the cost of giving the local guy my business I could buy all the parts new and like 2-3 used drums and screw up the procedure several times before doing my drum... And still have extra hardware and Swiss cheese shells at the end.
 
#35,917
yesterday went really well and i actually got paid to shoot a hot model with a big booty in skin tight form fitting horse riding pants, probably the most engaged i've ever been on a non music photo shoot, gonna practice again on sunday hopefully the weird deep and gritty feedback that the guitarist was getting was not just an anomaly, getting excited about playing a show in january, we may play on the roof of awol arts in el sereno
 
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#35,918
Blank_0101 said:
So I Would need one per disc, I can't run one buffer after the mixer master out to affect them all? I think I have all the parts and tools here for that build hopefully. But if it was a multi think I'd need to drill a pedal box with like 4 in/out buffers
Click to expand...
Here goes, as far as I understand things:
Each piezo would need its own buffer, before the mixer. Impedance matching(which is what you are doing with the piezos and buffers) is a all about contact. The piezo needs to be directly connected to something with a high impedance input(mic preamps or a high impedance buffer) otherwise you form a filter circuit with the low impedance input. This filter circuit is like a high pass circuit depending on the piezo and the low impedance input. Might chop off a large part of you signal below a certain point 200hz, 500hz, 1khz all depends on this interface.
 
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#35,919
mpdd said:
yesterday went really well and i actually got paid to shoot a hot model with a big booty in skin tight form fitting horse riding pants, probably the most engaged i've ever been on a non music photo shoot, gonna practice again on sunday hopefully the weird deep and gritty feedback that the guitarist was getting was not just an anomaly, getting excited about playing a show in january, we may play on the roof of awol arts in el sereno
Click to expand...

Pictures....
 
#35,920
mbelue said:
Here goes, as far as I understand things:
Each piezo would need its own buffer, before the mixer. Impedance matching(which is what you are doing with the piezos and buffers) is a all about contact. The piezo needs to be directly connected to something with a high impedance input(mic preamps or a high impedance buffer) otherwise you form a filter circuit with the low impedance input. This filter circuit is like a high pass circuit depending on the piezo and the low impedance input. Might chop off a large part of you signal below a certain point 200hz, 500hz, 1khz all depends on the interface.
Click to expand...

i must say that this project is getting very devo :)
 
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