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Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

Yeah I guess this was the
Rickenbacker's business model is essentially the same as my toddler's. They know how much everyone loves them, so they operate at maximum sh*tty behavior with no incentive to improve.





I have a friend who drives for Uber and he has a lot of "interesting" stories. Most of them involve puke and couples fighting.
Yeah, I guess this was the point I was I was trying to get to. I know how they conduct their business and it's not from a philosophy that values stand-up business practices or customer service/experience.

Anyway, at the Palace, and BLACK SABBATH is about to start.
 
Gibson kind of operates on the same model, to a lesser extent with their guitars. People have been making the same complaints about design flaws in their basses for years (because they need to replace parts or get repairs made) and their response has essentially been "People keep buying them, why would we change anything?".

I've gotten very cynical about some guitar/bass companies that have been innovators and leaders in design and now essentially coast on "Hey, our instruments look this way and look who's played them". In contrast, Fender has consistently tried to modernize and innovate with their designs and people hate them for it almost every time and demand vintage reissues. So I guess musicians can take a good chunk of the blame ourselves.
Pretty much that last bit.

The fact is, people complain about the tail lift issue (which is relatively rare) on Rickenbackers, going "why don't they fix this?" but they did. In the 1980s. With a couple of screws. And it not only fixed the issue, but made the connection between bridge and body better. But people complained because it was different and "ruined the vibe" or whatever and wasn't exactly the same. They moved the pickup route away from the neck to strengthen the joint there, and people are still complaining and going on about how the old spacing was better. On the 4004 basses, they fixed pretty much every physical issue you see people complain about (hum, sharp binding, quirky bridge, pickup cover, complicated controls, ugly pickguard) on here. But those don't sell nearly as well, because people want the old-school looking design. They made the 4002, another excellent bass, but it didn't sell. The 2000 series, cheaper than the 4000 series due to being a bolt-on, but still a good bass, also didn't sell, even though it addressed a bunch of things people complain about. So I think maybe they kinda gave up on doing anything different than what they usually do, except for the 4004, which I think they still make just because the CEO is stubborn and that's probably his favorite model.

The same with Gibson, to some extent. "Gibson basses aren't as good as Fenders blah blah," people whined in the 70s. So Gibson made the Victory, by pretty much all accounts a great bass. And it didn't sell well enough to continue cause it wasn't what people expected from them. They make the EB bass (which is a stupid name, admittedly), and people slam them for it and say it looks ugly.

Fender has made quite a few forays into different designs, but people always go "no, give us more P-basses and jazzes," essentially. The Cabronita and Dimension are their current "interesting" basses, but I bet they don't sell nearly as well as P-basses and jazzes.

MusicMan I think only get to make their weirder stuff because they're not answerable to shareholders, and also I think because people actually expect them to be weird. I still bet Stingrays outsell Bongos and Big Als and everything else they've ever made, though. And people complain that the three band preamp isn't as good as the two band on the early models (which, if that was true, why wouldn't they just use the two band and rake it in?).

G&L makes some weirder things as well, but I think the traditionally Fender-ish designs are probably what they sell most of.

Lakland has the Decade, which doesn't really resemble any other bass and I think is damn cool, but I think it's safe to say they sell more of their "traditional" models.

How many times has Ampeg tried to break into the guitar amp market now? I had a guitarist friend who was considering one of their small guitar amps that they had recently. He ended up going with an amp from a company seen more as traditionally for guitar, instead... even though honestly I think the Ampeg was a better deal.

It seems that musicians, despite our reputation as free spirits, are actually pretty damn conservative. Companies try to change up their formula, but unless they get lucky, they're usually not successful at doing so. When they do what they've always done, they get rewarded, and when they change things, usually they get punished for it.

And honestly, I admit to being part of this. I could go buy a 4004... but what I want is a 4003S, cause, well, it's cooler. I don't have a functional reason, really. If you'd been selling the active version of the T-bird, I wouldn't have been interested, cause I wanted the traditional one. When I see posts about new amps on the Amps and Cabs forum, I pretty much don't post unless it's tube or at least a tube pre. I have to be especially bored to comment on a solid state head or a micro or anything "modern."

We're the problem.
 
Pretty much that last bit.

The fact is, people complain about the tail lift issue (which is relatively rare) on Rickenbackers, going "why don't they fix this?" but they did. In the 1980s. With a couple of screws. And it not only fixed the issue, but made the connection between bridge and body better. But people complained because it was different and "ruined the vibe" or whatever and wasn't exactly the same. They moved the pickup route away from the neck to strengthen the joint there, and people are still complaining and going on about how the old spacing was better. On the 4004 basses, they fixed pretty much every physical issue you see people complain about (hum, sharp binding, quirky bridge, pickup cover, complicated controls, ugly pickguard) on here. But those don't sell nearly as well, because people want the old-school looking design. They made the 4002, another excellent bass, but it didn't sell. The 2000 series, cheaper than the 4000 series due to being a bolt-on, but still a good bass, also didn't sell, even though it addressed a bunch of things people complain about. So I think maybe they kinda gave up on doing anything different than what they usually do, except for the 4004, which I think they still make just because the CEO is stubborn and that's probably his favorite model.

The same with Gibson, to some extent. "Gibson basses aren't as good as Fenders blah blah," people whined in the 70s. So Gibson made the Victory, by pretty much all accounts a great bass. And it didn't sell well enough to continue cause it wasn't what people expected from them. They make the EB bass (which is a stupid name, admittedly), and people slam them for it and say it looks ugly.

Fender has made quite a few forays into different designs, but people always go "no, give us more P-basses and jazzes," essentially. The Cabronita and Dimension are their current "interesting" basses, but I bet they don't sell nearly as well as P-basses and jazzes.

MusicMan I think only get to make their weirder stuff because they're not answerable to shareholders, and also I think because people actually expect them to be weird. I still bet Stingrays outsell Bongos and Big Als and everything else they've ever made, though. And people complain that the three band preamp isn't as good as the two band on the early models (which, if that was true, why wouldn't they just use the two band and rake it in?).

G&L makes some weirder things as well, but I think the traditionally Fender-ish designs are probably what they sell most of.

Lakland has the Decade, which doesn't really resemble any other bass and I think is damn cool, but I think it's safe to say they sell more of their "traditional" models.

How many times has Ampeg tried to break into the guitar amp market now? I had a guitarist friend who was considering one of their small guitar amps that they had recently. He ended up going with an amp from a company seen more as traditionally for guitar, instead... even though honestly I think the Ampeg was a better deal.

It seems that musicians, despite our reputation as free spirits, are actually pretty damn conservative. Companies try to change up their formula, but unless they get lucky, they're usually not successful at doing so. When they do what they've always done, they get rewarded, and when they change things, usually they get punished for it.

And honestly, I admit to being part of this. I could go buy a 4004... but what I want is a 4003S, cause, well, it's cooler. I don't have a functional reason, really. If you'd been selling the active version of the T-bird, I wouldn't have been interested, cause I wanted the traditional one. When I see posts about new amps on the Amps and Cabs forum, I pretty much don't post unless it's tube or at least a tube pre. I have to be especially bored to comment on a solid state head or a micro or anything "modern."

We're the problem.
Well said. I often feel like I'm the "oddball" because I like function over form. Don't care about brands as long as I get the tone. I've had many people shocked at my rig, but usually because everyone here assumes that a bass player has Ampeg and a P-bass. I like my my Ibanez and GK! Kinda nice to be outside the box, though. Fun breaking expectations.
 
Pretty much that last bit.

The fact is, people complain about the tail lift issue (which is relatively rare) on Rickenbackers, going "why don't they fix this?" but they did. In the 1980s. With a couple of screws. And it not only fixed the issue, but made the connection between bridge and body better. But people complained because it was different and "ruined the vibe" or whatever and wasn't exactly the same. They moved the pickup route away from the neck to strengthen the joint there, and people are still complaining and going on about how the old spacing was better. On the 4004 basses, they fixed pretty much every physical issue you see people complain about (hum, sharp binding, quirky bridge, pickup cover, complicated controls, ugly pickguard) on here. But those don't sell nearly as well, because people want the old-school looking design. They made the 4002, another excellent bass, but it didn't sell. The 2000 series, cheaper than the 4000 series due to being a bolt-on, but still a good bass, also didn't sell, even though it addressed a bunch of things people complain about. So I think maybe they kinda gave up on doing anything different than what they usually do, except for the 4004, which I think they still make just because the CEO is stubborn and that's probably his favorite model.

The same with Gibson, to some extent. "Gibson basses aren't as good as Fenders blah blah," people whined in the 70s. So Gibson made the Victory, by pretty much all accounts a great bass. And it didn't sell well enough to continue cause it wasn't what people expected from them. They make the EB bass (which is a stupid name, admittedly), and people slam them for it and say it looks ugly.

Fender has made quite a few forays into different designs, but people always go "no, give us more P-basses and jazzes," essentially. The Cabronita and Dimension are their current "interesting" basses, but I bet they don't sell nearly as well as P-basses and jazzes.

MusicMan I think only get to make their weirder stuff because they're not answerable to shareholders, and also I think because people actually expect them to be weird. I still bet Stingrays outsell Bongos and Big Als and everything else they've ever made, though. And people complain that the three band preamp isn't as good as the two band on the early models (which, if that was true, why wouldn't they just use the two band and rake it in?).

G&L makes some weirder things as well, but I think the traditionally Fender-ish designs are probably what they sell most of.

Lakland has the Decade, which doesn't really resemble any other bass and I think is damn cool, but I think it's safe to say they sell more of their "traditional" models.

How many times has Ampeg tried to break into the guitar amp market now? I had a guitarist friend who was considering one of their small guitar amps that they had recently. He ended up going with an amp from a company seen more as traditionally for guitar, instead... even though honestly I think the Ampeg was a better deal.

It seems that musicians, despite our reputation as free spirits, are actually pretty damn conservative. Companies try to change up their formula, but unless they get lucky, they're usually not successful at doing so. When they do what they've always done, they get rewarded, and when they change things, usually they get punished for it.

And honestly, I admit to being part of this. I could go buy a 4004... but what I want is a 4003S, cause, well, it's cooler. I don't have a functional reason, really. If you'd been selling the active version of the T-bird, I wouldn't have been interested, cause I wanted the traditional one. When I see posts about new amps on the Amps and Cabs forum, I pretty much don't post unless it's tube or at least a tube pre. I have to be especially bored to comment on a solid state head or a micro or anything "modern."

We're the problem.

Pretty much. I will say while the Dimension and Cabronita aren't my cup of tea, I do like that Fender is constantly at least trying new and oddball things. I like that the options are there. Amp-wise, I'm more reserved in embracing new amps solely because I've found what I like, and most modern designs have a totally different tonal goal in mind than my amps. Plus, let's be straight honest, a class-D amp and 1x12 will NEVER look nearly as cool as a stack, and I'll be honest, I'm a visual person and image is a factor for me.


All that said, if MM made a bass version of St. Vincent's guitar, I'd be all over it. Maybe just more of a non-reverse Tbird headstock (not a fan of the 3+1 headstock on their basses).

Aug15_LNU_EBMM_STV_WEB.jpg
 
Pretty much. I will say while the Dimension and Cabronita aren't my cup of tea, I do like that Fender is constantly at least trying new and oddball things. I like that the options are there. Amp-wise, I'm more reserved in embracing new amps solely because I've found what I like, and most modern designs have a totally different tonal goal in mind than my amps. Plus, let's be straight honest, a class-D amp and 1x12 will NEVER look nearly as cool as a stack, and I'll be honest, I'm a visual person and image is a factor for me.


I don't know about that last bit, except the 112 part.

image.jpeg
 
My Gretsch bass finally came in. Picked it up a few minutes before a gig a decided to give it a try.
image.jpg

Was pretty pissed at the seller. Took forever to get it and when I did, it was filthy, had really old strings and is banged up a bit more than the pictures imply. The setup is really bad, but there's good news...
image.jpg


Damn thing plays like a dream. Just feels fantastic. Gonna put on some new strings and take it on the road next week :)
 
Love class D stuff, love my tube stuff. Short scale offset intro level squier basses and pricey custom cabs.

Visual is cool, but if I could somehow get obscene volume from a rig the size of a Roland cube id be down. Surprise all who see it.
If you could get obscene volume from a rig the size of a Roland cube, imagine the volume you could get from three of them!
 
I have a friend who drives for Uber and he has a lot of "interesting" stories. Most of them involve puke and couples fighting.

Mostly sober cute girls so far who tip well. That day might come, but I'll avoid late night for now. Currently it pays bills, but eventually it'll be my GAS fund. Want a pedal? Drive all Saturday and buy it.


I have a friend in Austin driving for Lyft as well. Tall gangly guy with glasses and curly dirty blonde hair, probably driving a little grey VW Golf. If you see him, throw eggs at him.

In DFW for it, but I bet Austin would be great for it
 
Is it just me or has bass "innovation" for the last decade meant making amp heads really really small? More DI boxes? Lighter and lighter cabs? I feel like the industry is marketing to baby boomers with bad backs.

How much of a demand for new rock bass gear is there, really?

I see it as a way to get louder for moving the same amount of gear. My big cab outperforms an 810, and weighs less than my old 410. The selling point was that it got loud. Being light is a nice side effect of innovation.
 
My Gretsch bass finally came in. Picked it up a few minutes before a gig a decided to give it a try.
View attachment 803161
Was pretty pissed at the seller. Took forever to get it and when I did, it was filthy, had really old strings and is banged up a bit more than the pictures imply. The setup is really bad, but there's good news...
View attachment 803168

Damn thing plays like a dream. Just feels fantastic. Gonna put on some new strings and take it on the road next week :)

She's a beaut Clark. So classy looking! I also like how the two dudes sitting so close outside the venue make an optical illusion of one huge person. Like Hulk was in the audience tonight, pretty cool. Or maybe kava for breakfast has kicked in, but it is Saturday morning after all.
 
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Paralysis by analysis fellas.
My current thinking on the amp thing is a Mesa Subway D800 maybe a used Carbine. Then a darkglass deluxe vintage microtubes.
There's too much gear. I don't know if anyone carries Mesa out here anymore. I'll have to look it up.
The sound in my head is somewhere between vintage and modern. I think this combo would be nice.
I'm leading towards the D800. No tubes. The deep switch with the 4003 in vintage mode might be interesting. Also headphone jack for home use. And a 5year warranty if bought new.
I just wonder if it can get gnarly on its own.
Also I'm wanting a nice P again.... ugh.
 
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Looking for an envelope filter for guitar. I really like the tone FX25B, but the volume drop sucks. Suggestions?

I'm also amazed at how well my DOD board does in comparison to my big board. Sounds great! And the Super American Metal (basically an HM-2 clone) sounds amazing with the FX25B. Really loving this board, and need to get my practice station ready so I can use this thing to its full potential. Only concern - the loop/gate doesn't quite close fast enough to kill some hiss from the Death Metal pedal. Would it be a simple cap change or something? Here's the schematics. I can do the soldering, but the actual reading of the circuit is beyond me.

http://www.americaspedal.net/fx30b/fx30bschem.jpg

Thanks for any help!
 
Looking for an envelope filter for guitar. I really like the tone FX25B, but the volume drop sucks. Suggestions?

I'm also amazed at how well my DOD board does in comparison to my big board. Sounds great! And the Super American Metal (basically an HM-2 clone) sounds amazing with the FX25B. Really loving this board, and need to get my practice station ready so I can use this thing to its full potential. Only concern - the loop/gate doesn't quite close fast enough to kill some hiss from the Death Metal pedal. Would it be a simple cap change or something? Here's the schematics. I can do the soldering, but the actual reading of the circuit is beyond me.

http://www.americaspedal.net/fx30b/fx30bschem.jpg

Thanks for any help!

I'm not an engineer by any stretch but I highly doubt a capacitor will impact gate speed. That is a problem inherent in a lot of gates. I'd imagine you are hearing one aspect that separates that gate from a more pricey option.

Blew out my amp at tonight's show. Two of the tubes were red-plating. :(

Damn dude that sucks! Is it calling for just a retube or do you think you blew the OT? SVT?
 
I'm not an engineer by any stretch but I highly doubt a capacitor will impact gate speed. That is a problem inherent in a lot of gates. I'd imagine you are hearing one aspect that separates that gate from a more pricey option.



Damn dude that sucks! Is it calling for just a retube or do you think you blew the OT? SVT?
Mesa D-180. Blew two fuses, and when I looked at the tubes, two of the power ones were glowing red on the plates. Gonna take it in. Hopefully just need a retube. Obviously if the OT is toast, that'll be expensive to fix.
 
I'm not an engineer by any stretch but I highly doubt a capacitor will impact gate speed. That is a problem inherent in a lot of gates. I'd imagine you are hearing one aspect that separates that gate from a more pricey option.
I figured, but thought I might ask. If it ID just a simple cap or pot change, that would be awesome. Though I can live with the slight hiss if it's just on my solo practice board.