Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[BurtMacklinFBI]

I’ve started looking for another envelope filter. Any thoughts on the Filter Twin? This far, my favorite has been the MXR Bass Envelope Filter. I like that it keeps the original dirty signal of my bass intact whereas other filters make everything sound the same, regardless of what I feed it. I run filter after dirt, so I prefer something that lets me hear the different dirt tones as well as the filter, and also doesn’t require tweaking for each different tone.

Some I’ve tried:
DOD FX25B - love the tone, hate the peakiness.
DOD FX25 - hard to dial in, peaky
DOD 440 Reissue - low end loss
Proton - made everything sound the same, high pitch “whoosh” background noise at preferred settings
SA BEF - Great for figuring out what kinds of filters I like, but too large and impractical for daily use.

I want to try:
Xerograph
Filter Twin
Whatever meets my criteria

So, suggestions?

I’m not sure how well they meet your particular needs, but I’ve gotten the best results from the Death By Audio Deep Animation and the new Fuzzrocious Croak. The Mooer Bass Sweeper was pretty good when last I tried I too; it’s been a while and I’m not sure how it stacks up to other more expensive pedals, but it’s so cheap it feels almost kind of silly not to try it.

 

[Grahams Groove]

I’m not sure how well they meet your particular needs, but I’ve gotten the best results from the Death By Audio Deep Animation and the new Fuzzrocious Croak. The Mooer Bass Sweeper was pretty good when last I tried I too; it’s been a while and I’m not sure how it stacks up to other more expensive pedals, but it’s so cheap it feels almost kind of silly not to try it.

The bass sweeper is an EHX Bassballs clone - and a damn good one for $50 new. It doesn’t have a clean blend though.

I like the Microtron 3 with dirt, but they’re pretty spendy.

For stoner/heavy stuff I’ve gone back to a wah pedal. It just feels right and I love having the option for slow sweeps.

 

[donahue]

Wah in my chain as well

 

[kleinenenten]

The bass sweeper is an EHX Bassballs clone - and a damn good one for $50 new. It doesn’t have a clean blend though.

I like the Microtron 3 with dirt, but they’re pretty spendy.

For stoner/heavy stuff I’ve gone back to a wah pedal. It just feels right and I love having the option for slow sweeps.

In my dream rig, yes, I’d love a wah. That dream rig also includes a coordinated user of the hate wah who doesn’t almost fall over and destroy his bass or pedals while trying to balance and use said wah.

In other words - I’ve tried a wah and I’m just not coordinated enough. Same thing with drums. Whenever I have to do both arms and legs simultaneously, things fall apart.

 

[Novarocker]

I haven't spent much time learning drums, but I have a hard time with independence of divisions on kick and right hand. Wah's no problem though haha.

I don't use much filter, but I think one a Qtron the other I'm not sure. I'll see if they let dirt through.

as you blend in more SS it starts to sound more poopie

& @oZZma

 

[Kaa]

Wah in my chain as well

Off subject, but, Donohue, as to your Ric, I am weirdly irritated at Rickenbacker for not making you an actual lefty headstock.

 

[Kaa]

A tale of two solid state amps

Was at a show a while back, and the second band on the bill was setting up, and I noticed the bassist using a big old Acoustic combo. Having lurked these pages for a long time, I knew people loved the tone of these when overdriven.

Well, I have no idea what this guy did, but that amp, when hit with a 5 string Ibby SR series, sounded just like my old Crate amp with everything on 10. It was just a God-awful fizz-fest. And loud. and he did a lot of Claypool-ish strumming. Just bad.

The next band came up and the bassist had a SS Ampeg SVT350H combo with no speaker through a 4 x 10 cab. He had a great, beefy tone that slayed perfectly in the frequency between drum and guitar.

Moral of the story: I have no idea, I just wanted to post this.

 

[br1qbat]

A tale of two solid state amps

Was at a show a while back, and the second band on the bill was setting up, and I noticed the bassist using a big old Acoustic combo. Having lurked these pages for a long time, I knew people loved the tone of these when overdriven.

Well, I have no idea what this guy did, but that amp, when hit with a 5 string Ibby SR series, sounded just like my old Crate amp with everything on 10. It was just a God-awful fizz-fest. And loud. and he did a lot of Claypool-ish strumming. Just bad.

The next band came up and the bassist had a SS Ampeg SVT350H combo with no speaker through a 4 x 10 cab. He had a great, beefy tone that slayed perfectly in the frequency between drum and guitar.

Moral of the story: I have no idea, I just wanted to post this.

It's more the musician than the gear. An idiot can make any rig sound terrible. Our guitarist sounds like himself thru just about anything.

 

[Grahams Groove]

In my dream rig, yes, I’d love a wah. That dream rig also includes a coordinated user of the hate wah who doesn’t almost fall over and destroy his bass or pedals while trying to balance and use said wah.

In other words - I’ve tried a wah and I’m just not coordinated enough. Same thing with drums. Whenever I have to do both arms and legs simultaneously, things fall apart.

Duly noted. Long post ahead...

I'm a bit of a filter junkie, but they all kind of have different functions/strengths for me. I just think the Microtron is easy to dial in, takes dirt well, is compact enough, and has a classic killer sound. If you like the FX25B but find it hard to tame the peaks, this may be a good option.

I've had the Filter Twin twice. It's really nice if you want something that stays fat and sits back in the mix a bit more - it can get a little syrupy/bubbly, but it's mild-mannered compared to the snappy quack of the MXR you have. If you don't want it to be obvious that you clicked on a filter, this is the one.

The Xerograph is one I have now. I wouldn't recommend as a primary envelope filter personally. It does it well enough, but its strong suit is synthy sounds and big manual sweeps with an expression pedal. It's also a bit more finicky in terms of responsiveness as a straight envelope filter. Great pedal, but it's pretty sensitive to input and minor adjustments.

I also dig the bigger box 3leaf Audio stuff - more knobs and pedalboard space, but they have clean blends and work really well with fuzz/dirt. In particular the Wonderlove and Groove Regulator. Those pop up on reverb between $150-250, but his current Chromatron is like $300+. The Protons are nice too - no clean blend, but I don't know that you need one. If you search 'zach rizer' on youtube, he does an extensive demo of the newest proton including some fuzz.

Moog MF-101 is glorious, but it's ridiculously big, takes a non-standard power supply, and is increasingly difficult to find for a decent price. That said, you should scope it out if none of those things deter you. It sounds great with fuzz, and is a classic.

Last one - which I haven't played - the Mr. Black Fwonkbeta. 3 knobs, gets quacky/bubbly, but it is known to be a danger to speakers if you don't dial it in correctly. Lots of lows and a BIG sweep. There are some okay demos of it on bass...

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

The bass sweeper is an EHX Bassballs clone - and a damn good one for $50 new. It doesn’t have a clean blend though.

I like the Microtron 3 with dirt, but they’re pretty spendy.

For stoner/heavy stuff I’ve gone back to a wah pedal. It just feels right and I love having the option for slow sweeps.

Yeah, IMO the Bass Sweeper is essentially a better Bassballs for less money. The dirt on it isn’t that good, but IMO the Bassballs distortion sucks so that’s no big deal.

 

[kleinenenten]

Duly noted. Long post ahead...

I'm a bit of a filter junkie, but they all kind of have different functions/strengths for me. I just think the Microtron is easy to dial in, takes dirt well, is compact enough, and has a classic killer sound. If you like the FX25B but find it hard to tame the peaks, this may be a good option.

I've had the Filter Twin twice. It's really nice if you want something that stays fat and sits back in the mix a bit more - it can get a little syrupy/bubbly, but it's mild-mannered compared to the snappy quack of the MXR you have. If you don't want it to be obvious that you clicked on a filter, this is the one.

The Xerograph is one I have now. I wouldn't recommend as a primary envelope filter personally. It does it well enough, but its strong suit is synthy sounds and big manual sweeps with an expression pedal. It's also a bit more finicky in terms of responsiveness as a straight envelope filter. Great pedal, but it's pretty sensitive to input and minor adjustments.

I also dig the bigger box 3leaf Audio stuff - more knobs and pedalboard space, but they have clean blends and work really well with fuzz/dirt. In particular the Wonderlove and Groove Regulator. Those pop up on reverb between $150-250, but his current Chromatron is like $300+. The Protons are nice too - no clean blend, but I don't know that you need one. If you search 'zach rizer' on youtube, he does an extensive demo of the newest proton including some fuzz.

Moog MF-101 is glorious, but it's ridiculously big, takes a non-standard power supply, and is increasingly difficult to find for a decent price. That said, you should scope it out if none of those things deter you. It sounds great with fuzz, and is a classic.

Last one - which I haven't played - the Mr. Black Fwonkbeta. 3 knobs, gets quacky/bubbly, but it is known to be a danger to speakers if you don't dial it in correctly. Lots of lows and a BIG sweep. There are some okay demos of it on bass...

I just got rid of a Proton. It made everything run through it sound the same. Dirt is more important, so I want a pedal that sounds slightly to noticeably different for each dirt tone I use. It sounded almost too wet to me, like the filter just took over.

Your comments on the Xerograph mirror my concerns, so thank you for confirmation of that.

The Microtron sounds promising. I’ll look into it.

As for your observation that some filters are more noticeable than others, I anticipated it noticeable, but not harsh or speaker destroying. I think the separate FX and Dry volumes on the MXR are the reason it works so well. I can have noticeable filter, but not have it overpowering. I like that I can get plenty of variations from obvious to subtle with the MXR.

I really think I’ll get an MXR, but also love the idea of new and different gear. Anybody ever try the Mooer Envelope or Donner Dynamic Wah? They seem the same, but I like the tones they get on bass (with limited bass reviews). None of them have dirt pre-filter, though, so I’m hesitant.

 

[Grahams Groove]

I just got rid of a Proton. It made everything run through it sound the same. Dirt is more important, so I want a pedal that sounds slightly to noticeably different for each dirt tone I use. It sounded almost too wet to me, like the filter just took over.

Your comments on the Xerograph mirror my concerns, so thank you for confirmation of that.

The Microtron sounds promising. I’ll look into it.

As for your observation that some filters are more noticeable than others, I anticipated it noticeable, but not harsh or speaker destroying. I think the separate FX and Dry volumes on the MXR are the reason it works so well. I can have noticeable filter, but not have it overpowering. I like that I can get plenty of variations from obvious to subtle with the MXR.

I really think I’ll get an MXR, but also love the idea of new and different gear. Anybody ever try the Mooer Envelope or Donner Dynamic Wah? They seem the same, but I like the tones they get on bass (with limited bass reviews). None of them have dirt pre-filter, though, so I’m hesitant.

I think the mooer envelope is just meh. Don't know much about the donner. Maybe stick with the MXR then. Filters are so personal to taste and other pedal combos. When I find one I really like and it works for me, I tend to keep it. I may buy and try others, but I'll stick with the ones that work if I can afford to.

Last thing since you mentioned you want the character of different dirt pedals to be noticeable with the filter, instead of it all sounding the same. Definitely research the 3leaf big box filters then. They are different and way more flexible than the Proton. The nice thing is that has an effects loop that is switchable between true bypass and buffered. With buffered bypass, you can still use the pedals in the loop without engaging the filter. But - having dirt in the loop means that your bass signal hits the input of the filter first, before it hits the dirt and then feeds back into the rest of the filter. The point of this is that you can set the sensitivity of the filter where it responds to your liking, and then clicking on dirt doesn't just slam the input and completely change the dynamics. The filter response stays consistent, and I think the fuzz or dirt pedal have more character, since the filter isn't just wide open from all the harmonics. They also have blends that will let you balance things or make the filter sound more subtle.

 

[Kaa]

It's more the musician than the gear. An idiot can make any rig sound terrible. Our guitarist sounds like himself thru just about anything.

TBH, when he was setting up, I was kind of looking forward to hearing it. (Not having heard one live before.) All the videos on the webz sounded interesting, so, I figured, here's a chance. Then he hit the first strum of all the strings, and, well, it were ungood.

The last band was a Nick Cave-ish swamp rock trio, and they bassist played a 5 string J-bass through a small SWR combo (a Redhead maybe?) that sounded, strong and velvety. No clue as to the pedals he used.

 

[kleinenenten]

I think the mooer envelope is just meh. Don't know much about the donner. Maybe stick with the MXR then. Filters are so personal to taste and other pedal combos. When I find one I really like and it works for me, I tend to keep it. I may buy and try others, but I'll stick with the ones that work if I can afford to.

Last thing since you mentioned you want the character of different dirt pedals to be noticeable with the filter, instead of it all sounding the same. Definitely research the 3leaf big box filters then. They are different and way more flexible than the Proton. The nice thing is that has an effects loop that is switchable between true bypass and buffered. With buffered bypass, you can still use the pedals in the loop without engaging the filter. But - having dirt in the loop means that your bass signal hits the input of the filter first, before it hits the dirt and then feeds back into the rest of the filter. The point of this is that you can set the sensitivity of the filter where it responds to your liking, and then clicking on dirt doesn't just slam the input and completely change the dynamics. The filter response stays consistent, and I think the fuzz or dirt pedal have more character, since the filter isn't just wide open from all the harmonics. They also have blends that will let you balance things or make the filter sound more subtle.

Dang it, that sounds good. And I’ve been interested in those, but didn’t want to spend that much in an effect I don’t use all that often.

Do they handle all sorts of dirt (none, light, to heavy) with the same settings? Currently, my MXR requires no tweaking to work for all scenarios, which is a huge plus.

Update: New thought. I put the filter before dirt, but with high clean volume and lower FX volume. Let the dirt accentuate the filter? Worth a shot.

 

[bassboysam]

my filter reccomendations:

VFE Mini Mu, if you can find it, simple classic mutron style filter.
Broughton JoshWah, this a great filter with somr nice features like built in OD and master volume (win!)
Dr. Scientist Dusk, lots of options and midi control if you want plus an lfo mode.
3leaf Chromatron, tons of features, great sound but large and $$$.

 

[Grahams Groove]

Dang it, that sounds good. And I’ve been interested in those, but didn’t want to spend that much in an effect I don’t use all that often.

Do they handle all sorts of dirt (none, light, to heavy) with the same settings? Currently, my MXR requires no tweaking to work for all scenarios, which is a huge plus.

Update: New thought. I put the filter before dirt, but with high clean volume and lower FX volume. Let the dirt accentuate the filter? Worth a shot.

Yeah, the 3Leaf can handle most fuzz or dirt you throw at it - especially if you use the effects loop that way. It's not as much of an issue anyway if you're pretty good about dialing in unity gain on your dirt pedals. I just love that feature because I keep the sensitivity low on my filters to get them to be very quacky/bubbly most of the time. If you run the MXR a bit more 'open' then the difference your dirt makes on the responsiveness is less of a big deal. Your idea is worth a shot - just depends if you like the way the filter sounds/livens up with dirt or if you prefer the the filter clean with parallel dirt.

 

[Grahams Groove]

my filter reccomendations:

VFE Mini Mu, if you can find it, simple classic mutron style filter.
Broughton JoshWah, this a great filter with somr nice features like built in OD and master volume (win!)
Dr. Scientist Dusk, lots of options and midi control if you want plus an lfo mode.
3leaf Chromatron, tons of features, great sound but large and $$$.

Mini Mu is a good call for a less expensive version of the Microtron III/IV. Totally forgot about that one!

I had issues with the JoshWah. I didn't like the built in dirt, and it can clip in a bad way on low notes if you dig in. I know a few people had the same issue with theirs.

I bought the Dusk on your rec, but I've already flipped it. I think this is cool if you really want LFO effects first and foremost, but I thought the filter was sub-par compared to most of stuff I've owned or still own. It felt very shallow and lifeless to me. YMMV

 

[kleinenenten]

Yeah, the 3Leaf can handle most fuzz or dirt you throw at it - especially if you use the effects loop that way. It's not as much of an issue anyway if you're pretty good about dialing in unity gain on your dirt pedals. I just love that feature because I keep the sensitivity low on my filters to get them to be very quacky/bubbly most of the time. If you run the MXR a bit more 'open' then the difference your dirt makes on the responsiveness is less of a big deal. Your idea is worth a shot - just depends if you like the way the filter sounds/livens up with dirt or if you prefer the the filter clean with parallel dirt.

Already tried it - definitely prefer dirt before filter tone-wise. And I do make sure my pedals are unity gain, so that's a non-issue. I want them all to react somewhat similarly, and not have one be totally wild or anything like that. Crazy thing is I like the filter clean and with dirt! So I have to make sure it works for all. Gotta dig in a bit for clean filter to work, but worth it. Thanks for all the help.

 

[kleinenenten]

...and I just scooped up the MXR a few minutes after one was posted in the classifieds...

 

[Flamingo21]

BTW playing with my amps again this Monday, after two f.ing months was the most powerful feeling ever. I almost cried with joy.

Crying with you.