Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[Novarocker]

Anybody around here still use the Pharaoh fuzz? I love my Supreme, and the regular one is up there among my favorites. Maybe the Supercollider ‘71 is better - been a while since I’ve had a standard Pharaoh and the Supercollider is on guitar duty...

Anyway, I just found out that Mark from BAT does random other Pharaoh builds, like Civil War and Russian and Kompromat (whatever that is) variants. I’m intrigued. The Russian variant on bass mostly, as I loved the Russian Pickle (but have never had an actual Russian Muff). So anybody have inputs on those? I’ll likely try the Supercollider ‘71 on bass again, just because, but man, I am tempted by that Russian Pharaoh.

Side note - what ever happened to the Supercollider ‘71 model? I bought mine used a few years ago since it was supposedly “smoother” or “creamier” or something which is what I wanted since the original was a tad too grainy for me, but I swear I haven’t seen one since. The standard one is listed on EA’s page, though recently got downsized.

Did not know he did a lot of other variants. Would love to try a Russian one. I've been circling the black hole of muff's for a bit. I really dig the IC and Russian variants of muff's. The mid bit and roar you get from IC is awesome. I wonder how similar the civil war is?

Thank you SO MUCH guys!! Pure gold!



All of these infos are new to me, I'm learning from scratch
I'm using a digital interface, the Zoom R16
I looked in the manual and it has a "Low cut" which is not the same as a HPF, it seems...
And I can't find any LPF either.
But I'll do the mixing on Reaper and It has both for sure!
I'd like to limit manipulation of the raw recording as much as possible but I'll try with this method anyways!
THANK YOU!



I can use an "almost gig volume" too (another reason why I was so reluctant to leave this reharsal space )! The only problem is dealing with feedback...
Today I had reharsal with my drummer and I didn't work at the recording stuff, but tomorrow I'll be alone and will try this! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

How do you like the R16? I've been toying with trying some recording and that one looked like a good starting point for it.

Any of you running Matamps? I was thinking of ordering one. I have some pretty high wattage clean sounding heads so I was thinking about maybe a 100w Matamp head that could break up and get dirty. Is a lower wattage Matamp a silly idea? Should I go with 150w on up? I thought if I did that I wouldn't be sitting much different than I am now tone-wise.

What say ye all?

More amps always better they are.

Only speculating, but 15w of tubes for guitar can get really damn loud. I have used an 18w 212 combo for a practice on bass and it was pretty awesome, but it needed every ounce of power. Since you want the dirt, I wouldn't be surprised if 100 would be enough to maintain your low end and stay loud n dirty. I have no direct experience though. I bet an hpf would help improve volume and maintain dirt.

 

[kleinenenten]

@Novarocker - no bass demo, but this is the only demo I’ve found of the “standard” variants. The Supreme is not used in this video. To me, the Russian wins this demo, but I’m not a huge fan of extreme gain on my fuzz. I get the feeling the Civil War would win on guitar for me.

 

[bassboysam]

Any of you running Matamps? I was thinking of ordering one. I have some pretty high wattage clean sounding heads so I was thinking about maybe a 100w Matamp head that could break up and get dirty. Is a lower wattage Matamp a silly idea? Should I go with 150w on up? I thought if I did that I wouldn't be sitting much different than I am now tone-wise.

What say ye all?

i've been using my MKI GT200 for 10 years. its relatively clean and more neutral than say an SVT. i would say the 150 may still be too clean unless you can really crank it. i would think a 100 watter would be better for most. would also depend on your cabs too.

 

[mlove]

How do you like the R16? I've been toying with trying some recording and that one looked like a good starting point for it.

I have a little experience with the R16. A drummer I jam with has one. His recording results are ok with it but he isn’t trying for studio quality recordings - just getting ideas down.
We recorded some songs a couple times using it as an audio interface into Logic on my iMac.
The results were very good. If I was starting from scratch I’d get one - you can get them used for dirt cheap on Kijiji up here. Hard to think of something more versatile (multi track recorder, audio interface, internal mic’s for field recording).

I say find a used one and go for it!

 

[mlove]

On another note my SVT CL started smoking and won’t bias correctly.
The better techs are in Halifax and my amp can’t make the boarder til things open up.
The guy in town looked at it and said nothing is fried in the amp but needs to send it to them for proper diagnosis.
I’m guessing power tubes are in order.
Thoughts?

 

[Warlock_Surfer]

There's this little pedal it is a blend of all of Matt's muffs
Invalid Link Removed

 

[jollygiantchris]

I have a little experience with the R16. A drummer I jam with has one. His recording results are ok with it but he isn’t trying for studio quality recordings - just getting ideas down.
We recorded some songs a couple times using it as an audio interface into Logic on my iMac.
The results were very good. If I was starting from scratch I’d get one - you can get them used for dirt cheap on Kijiji up here. Hard to think of something more versatile (multi track recorder, audio interface, internal mic’s for field recording).

I say find a used one and go for it!

I don't know if they fixed it but there is a major issue with the Zoom R8, R16, R24's internal clock. It drifts, particularly while recording a song for example if you record all of your practices and listen to them a lot you'll find yourself speeding up the tempo you're playing the song at slowly over time. Or if you bounce it to a DAW, even if you recorded to a click it won't line up right. They may have resolved this issue but that was a major known issue with them that you should be aware of before purchasing.

They ARE great for spot recording live performances but if you're going to try to record to a click or keep referencing the recordings you need to be cognizant of the fact that it doesn't have a good internal clock and will time-stretch your performance slightly.

Here's a thread about this issue
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Novarocker]

Good to know, I'll take a read.

 

[oZZma]

How do you like the R16? I've been toying with trying some recording and that one looked like a good starting point for it.

I have a very limited knowledge of this device and recording in general, my opinion is not worth much...
All I can say is the interface is easy to understand and it's easy to record "decent" tracks with the built-in mics even for an idiot like me.
For now I haven't had satisfying results with the external mics, but it depends on my total inexperience. Unfortunately, I haven't used for long enough to have a more precise opinion, as soon as I bought it the COVID happened

BTW, I made some noticeable progress with the advice I got here so thank you again, guys. It was a huge help.
I tried with the amp really LOUD and low gain on the recorder, that was a serious improvement… only I almost perforated my eardrum. I need to find a way to tame the amp feedback without using the noise gate.

Placing the mics a couple of feet away from the bass cab was a great advice too, a lot richer, and fuller. Huge improvement. I'm glad I asked.

 

[oZZma]

I don't know if they fixed it but there is a major issue with the Zoom R8, R16, R24's internal clock. It drifts, particularly while recording a song for example if you record all of your practices and listen to them a lot you'll find yourself speeding up the tempo you're playing the song at slowly over time. Or if you bounce it to a DAW, even if you recorded to a click it won't line up right. They may have resolved this issue but that was a major known issue with them that you should be aware of before purchasing.

They ARE great for spot recording live performances but if you're going to try to record to a click or keep referencing the recordings you need to be cognizant of the fact that it doesn't have a good internal clock and will time-stretch your performance slightly.

Here's a thread about this issue
Invalid Link Removed

Oh. F**k.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

There's this little pedal it is a blend of all of Matt's muffs
Invalid Link Removed

Nooooo! I want it and it's sold out! THIS IS AMERICA I WANT IT NOW!!!!!

 

[Novarocker]

Nooooo! I want it and it's sold out! THIS IS AMERICA I WANT IT NOW!!!!!

Same, sounds good and the interface/design implementation is real intriguing!

@jollygiantchris and @oZZma thanks for the input. The easy interface is definitely something that caught my eye, and being able to record at least 6 tracks.

Hopefully the clock got squared away.

 

[YawningJorin]

I was going to ask you all about whether I should learn double bass or cello, but writing it all out made me realise that even if double bass could have its advantages coming from an electric bass background, it's the cello that really interests me. So hopefully I can pick that up once I can get lessons after the pandemic ends. Just need to figure out if I should get an acoustic or electric. People seem really judgemental of electric bowed instruments and while acoustic does seem more versatile, electric would be more convenient in a lot of ways.

What I want to create with a bowed instrument is probably something between Boris, SubRosa, and Bell Witch. If you're all lucky I might even stop talking about it and start doing it before we all die of old age.

 

[Deleted member 132197]

I was going to ask you all about whether I should learn double bass or cello, but writing it all out made me realise that even if double bass could have its advantages coming from an electric bass background, it's the cello that really interests me. So hopefully I can pick that up once I can get lessons after the pandemic ends. Just need to figure out if I should get an acoustic or electric. People seem really judgemental of electric bowed instruments and while acoustic does seem more versatile, electric would be more convenient in a lot of ways.

What I want to create with a bowed instrument is probably something between Boris, SubRosa, and Bell Witch. If you're all lucky I might even stop talking about it and start doing it before we all die of old age.

Go for electric if you want to use it with a loud (heck, any!) band. Acoustic cello's/DBs are nice for your Sunday brunch quartet, but become a hell to amplify when a guitar player and drummer get involved. After playing years of DB with a band (first rock'n'roll, but now bowed in a doom project) I switched to an EUB last year and it was the best move ever. Instead of fighting feedback and be heard in the mix I now can actually hear myself.

Also, EUB/EUC will be more open to effect pedals (with the use of an preamp, because the input impedance will be quite different)

 

[lucas303]

I was going to ask you all about whether I should learn double bass or cello, but writing it all out made me realise that even if double bass could have its advantages coming from an electric bass background, it's the cello that really interests me. So hopefully I can pick that up once I can get lessons after the pandemic ends. Just need to figure out if I should get an acoustic or electric. People seem really judgemental of electric bowed instruments and while acoustic does seem more versatile, electric would be more convenient in a lot of ways.

What I want to create with a bowed instrument is probably something between Boris, SubRosa, and Bell Witch. If you're all lucky I might even stop talking about it and start doing it before we all die of old age.

I wonder if it would make the transition easier if you start tuning your bass in fifths like cello? Maybe tune the bass CGDA an octave lower than the cello?

 

[YawningJorin]

I wonder if it would make the transition easier if you start tuning your bass in fifths like cello? Maybe tune the bass CGDA an octave lower than the cello?

I actually have a seven string that I tune in fifths up from C to F#. It's really interesting to play. Unfortunately I had to do a lot of setup and fixes, and once I got the custom strings, some weren't quite right (highest snapped, lowest didn't have enough taper) so I ordered some replacements. Then I moved and haven't had time to play. Nevertheless, it's been a blast with the little time I've had so far, even if the setup has not been ideal. It makes a lot of chords really easy -- all usual 7 and min7 chords can be played across only three frets and four strings (voiced 1-5-3-7). More importantly, the fingering makes more sense (index goes on the thicker strings for the root as opposed to going on the fifth and/or octave when playing regular minor/major chords in regular 4ths tuning) and you can barre a lot. Also, power chords are a breeze all over!! It's really nice being able to use the C and G as the root in a riff and when going up around the 7th fret octave (or 5th fret in this case) as we stoner riffers do, power chords can still be barred which is not the case for drop tunings unless you choose to work around the 12th fret instead.

Now I'm really excited to play again...

 

[br1qbat]

Only speculating, but 15w of tubes for guitar can get really damn loud. I have used an 18w 212 combo for a practice on bass and it was pretty awesome, but it needed every ounce of power. Since you want the dirt, I wouldn't be surprised if 100 would be enough to maintain your low end and stay loud n dirty. I have no direct experience though. I bet an hpf would help improve volume and maintain dirt.

100w not enough to do both loud/dirty AND maintain low end. Unless it is very cleanly voiced amp with massive transformers like a Hiwatt. My Marshall [clone] has lows for days... until the master goes above about 3. Those plexi style amps reach full audible volume quick then it is just adding gain when you turn the knob further to the right. My GK slays it in volume and presence and thump, even when the tube amp is running thru my efficient and huge GK 412

 

[ConfoundedBridg]

Dirt box Acquired...

Also how the h*ck do you attach a photo here without having to dedicate a whole computer screen to one image

 

[kleinenenten]

Got my bass back from the shop. Grounding issue that is apparently normal for a Bart preamp, but my almost identical bass with the same preamp didn’t need that special type of grounding... Whatever. It’s fixed, and due to the time it took, it was free! No complaints! Gonna look into Bartolini grounding now. Maybe it’s why my other bass is a little noisier. Who knows?

 

[ConfoundedBridg]

Any of y'all have experience with those vox practice bass amps? I'll probably be moving at the end of summer and although I love my BA210 I don't think my potential neighbors and roomates will feel the same way. I was mainly wondering if I stuck the practice amp at the end of my signal chain would it still work? All I've seen are people plugging the practice amp directly into their bass.

Also I will add that my BA210 does have a headphone jack but I think I screwed it up somehow. Are those typically easy fixes? I always wanted to replace the smaller AUX size input with a 1/4in input anyway (my preferred headphones are that size) so maybe that jack not working is a blessing in disguise