Subway+ Bass DI-Preamp II

[GTHintz]

Often, less is more.

That part. I’ve blended a ton of preamps and heads and found cool combinations. At the same time I have a few preamps that I love the pure unfiltered tone of. The subway is one of those. It’s best either stand alone or out in front of everything else behind it. I have a couple basses that I prefer certain preamps but they all sound good through the mesa. If I wasn’t a preamp addict I could easily just use the subway for everything. Just move the eq or the voicing around for different basses and you’re there. I don’t think it even needs a compressor because it’s already got a certain focus and tightness to the tone. I think all compression would do is get rid of the richness of overtones.

 

[AObando2002]

This sounds odd to me based on having played it a lot and frequently comparing notes (no pun inetended) with Gus on his use with some pretty hot inputs...and Gus was often running at 9 volts.

Just for the troiubleshooting/fault isolation fun of it, how does it sound with just your bass going into the box, nothing additional in the signal path? I would then add one effect at a time and see if there is a bad cable/connection, or specific effect that is causing the problem. I would also try that power supply with another box/pedal to be sure it is actually working properly.

Just reading what you posted the problem strikes me as a gain staging issue, especially when you added that last sentence about your other preamps (They don’t really clip that bad.). Something is being overdriven or you're getting unwanted distortion from a bad connection.

I hope that's helpful.

Thanks. I’ll give that a shot. However, I don’t think it’s a gain staging issue since most are at unity. What I meant by “they don’t clip that bad” is they don’t clip at all. They can handle all these pedals without an issue. I can certainly try to go one at a time, but I’m pretty meticulous about my gear. Meaning all of it is expensive and I’m obsessive about making sure it’s well taken care of.

 

[gustobassman]

This sounds odd to me based on having played it a lot and frequently comparing notes (no pun inetended) with Gus on his use with some pretty hot inputs...and Gus was often running at 9 volts.

Just for the troiubleshooting/fault isolation fun of it, how does it sound with just your bass going into the box, nothing additional in the signal path? I would then add one effect at a time and see if there is a bad cable/connection, or specific effect that is causing the problem. I would also try that power supply with another box/pedal to be sure it is actually working properly.

Just reading what you posted the problem strikes me as a gain staging issue, especially when you added that last sentence about your other preamps (They don’t really clip that bad.). Something is being overdriven or you're getting unwanted distortion from a bad connection.

I hope that's helpful.

I read this and did some experimenting myself, just to see when I could get unwanted noise - both at 18v and 9v.. Basses were a Dingwall SP1 5 string in series and a Dingwall Z with series/parallel switches, Neve preamp and Super Fatty 2 pups (the loudest Dingwall pups). With preamp flat, I tried it bass only, and then bass with a really hot (gain boosted) compressor going into the Anagram with a pretty loud signal (just hitting the yellow on the output meter), then heading into the Pre DI and out to the EFX return of the 800D.

Both the SP1 in series and the Z sounded good all the way up to 3:00 with the pups like MM style and switches in the series position. Pushing it further got a little weird. A little more so in 9V than 18V. I dont know if i heard clipping though? Just didnt sound very good, noisier than I'd prefer- especially series/MM > compressor > Anagram. Gain staging would be the first place I would look based on that, but the OP said they were at unity so ...

NOTE: I did not try this through an interface so I have no idea what those results would be.

heck, even pickups too close to the strings would introduce funky artifacts if gain was being boosted in places down the line.

 

[2cooltoolz]

Not a joke. I heard from many players (and in discussions here on TB) that the cost and size of the original Subway+ pre-DI made it a complete non-starter for them.

Because of this, we couldn’t continue to justify building them until we could find a way to solve those very significant issues. This is the result, now time will tell if it’s a success or not.

@agedhorse, you are my guru. But you didn't hear that from me. I love my Subway+ pre-DI. It's large, but not THAT large, and it's the best DI I've owned (okay, only 4, but the usuals).

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse, you are my guru. But you didn't hear that from me. I love my Subway+ pre-DI. It's large, but not THAT large, and it's the best DI I've owned (okay, only 4, but the usuals).

Yes, many but not all players.

 

[LpPT20]

Just ordered mine on Thomann. Can't wait for it to get here

wow those flew off the shelf at Thomann, already sold out!
Not many dealers in Europe yet I guess, I did get my order in just in time

 

[JJR58]

Often, less is more.

Agreed!

 

[JJR58]

That part. I’ve blended a ton of preamps and heads and found cool combinations. At the same time I have a few preamps that I love the pure unfiltered tone of. The subway is one of those. It’s best either stand alone or out in front of everything else behind it. I have a couple basses that I prefer certain preamps but they all sound good through the mesa. If I wasn’t a preamp addict I could easily just use the subway for everything. Just move the eq or the voicing around for different basses and you’re there. I don’t think it even needs a compressor because it’s already got a certain focus and tightness to the tone. I think all compression would do is get rid of the richness of overtones.

^^^^
This!

And agreed in using the Mesa stand alone only.
For my tastes, it’s got it all in one tidy package.
When I tested the many variations of preamps I’ve got, they all just got in the way of the Mesa.
To my ears anyway. Ymmv.

Plus I’ve finally got my rig simple.

 

[AObando2002]

I read this and did some experimenting myself, just to see when I could get unwanted noise - both at 18v and 9v.. Basses were a Dingwall SP1 5 string in series and a Dingwall Z with series/parallel switches, Neve preamp and Super Fatty 2 pups (the loudest Dingwall pups). With preamp flat, I tried it bass only, and then bass with a really hot (gain boosted) compressor going into the Anagram with a pretty loud signal (just hitting the yellow on the output meter), then heading into the Pre DI and out to the EFX return of the 800D.

Both the SP1 in series and the Z sounded good all the way up to 3:00 with the pups like MM style and switches in the series position. Pushing it further got a little weird. A little more so in 9V than 18V. I dont know if i heard clipping though? Just didnt sound very good, noisier than I'd prefer- especially series/MM > compressor > Anagram. Gain staging would be the first place I would look based on that, but the OP said they were at unity so ...

NOTE: I did not try this through an interface so I have no idea what those results would be.

heck, even pickups too close to the strings would introduce funky artifacts if gain was being boosted in places down the line.

Definitely a ton of artifacts. I had gain at about noon and master roughly the same, plugged into my interface. Sadly that store only has a 48 hours return policy, so it's going back today. It's not for me.

Thanks

 

[agedhorse]

Are you sure you aren’t overdriving your interface? This is not uncommon, and the metering on some interfaces is not very accurate or inclusive of indicating all O/L points in the circuit.

Turn the gain down to about 9:00 to handle line level sources if you happen to have a pedal that is providing additional level that you might not be aware of.

Did you try the suggestion of eliminating all pedals first and verifying that signal, then adding pedals one at a time?

There hasn’t been a single complaint of distortion and this design can handle levels much higher than a typical pedal without distortion.

If you have already made up your mind, then ignore the advice.

 

[Lowbrow]

Huh
Not doubting you but this is the first complaint I’ve seen about this DI on this subject of pedals and being non-compatible.

Maybe some of the cats that are sporting large pedal boards can chime in that are using the Subway+ DI Preamp with no problems

I use an in-line attenuator to keep the interface from clipping when using XLR outputs without volume controls. I have used said attenuator with this unit.

 

[AObando2002]

Are you sure you aren’t overdriving your interface? This is not uncommon, and the metering on some interfaces is not very accurate or inclusive of indicating all O/L points in the circuit.

Turn the gain down to about 9:00 to handle line level sources if you happen to have a pedal that is providing additional level that you might not be aware of.

Did you try the suggestion of eliminating all pedals first and verifying that signal, then adding pedals one at a time?

There hasn’t been a single complaint of distortion and this design can handle levels much higher than a typical pedal without distortion.

If you have already made up your mind, then ignore the advice.

I also tried running thru my NEVE and LUCE DIs. Same thing on both. Running straight to SSL + interface as well.

Tried running low input while raising the master, it was the same just lower volume. Low input at about 9 or even less.

I could continue to try to troubleshoot but I don't have the time to get it returned. I'd rather return it than find out next week it won't work for me and then I'm out $100 because then I have to sell it. Deal with the lowball offers from potential buyers.

 

[Al Kraft]

I also tried running thru my NEVE and LUCE DIs. Same thing on both. Running straight to SSL + interface as well.

Tried running low input while raising the master, it was the same just lower volume. Low input at about 9 or even less.

I could continue to try to troubleshoot but I don't have the time to get it returned. I'd rather return it than find out next week it won't work for me and then I'm out $100 because then I have to sell it. Deal with the lowball offers from potential buyers.

Sorry to hear it didn't work for you, but with a limited window of time for a return I would probably make the same decision if I were in your shoes.

 

[DJ Bebop]

^^^^
This!

And agreed in using the Mesa stand alone only.
For my tastes, it’s got it all in one tidy package.
When I tested the many variations of preamps I’ve got, they all just got in the way of the Mesa.
To my ears anyway. Ymmv.

Plus I’ve finally got my rig simple.

View attachment 7488903

Are you running it through the effects send and return?

 

[JJR58]

Are you running it through the effects send and return?

I am.
I guess i kinda contradicted myself in my stand alone comment

 

[DJ Bebop]

I am.
I guess i kinda contradicted myself in my stand alone comment

I was thinking that

I try that and didn't like it. I prefer my method I’ve talked about

 

[JJR58]

I love the effects loop on my amp.
It’s gotta trim control of +/-9db.
And a sensitivity switch.
So I’ve got good control over the Mesa this way.

 

[JJR58]

I was thinking that

I try that and didn't like it. I prefer my method I’ve talked about

I like the way you’re running yours.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I like the way you’re running yours.

Thanks! Even if I don't run them both at the same time, I like being able to switch from the internal preamp to the external one by means of their mute switches

And I saved a few bucks by not needing a separate ABY switch box

 

[agedhorse]

I also tried running thru my NEVE and LUCE DIs. Same thing on both. Running straight to SSL + interface as well.

Tried running low input while raising the master, it was the same just lower volume. Low input at about 9 or even less.

I could continue to try to troubleshoot but I don't have the time to get it returned. I'd rather return it than find out next week it won't work for me and then I'm out $100 because then I have to sell it. Deal with the lowball offers from potential buyers.

Did you try the pedal without pedals to rule out that maybe there's a gain structure issue or defect with one of your other pedals?