Suicide and those quietly considering it

[Byron92]

Good choice, and If that's what keeps you moving forward DON'T EVER forget it.
Your 200% right, it leaves an indescribable empty mess <--- (that was a typo which should have said emptiness but I liked the auto correct choice better)
Interesting.
Okay sorry.

Yeah, there's a void left that may very well be one of the absolute hardest holes to refill the heart can handle.
This reminds me of a picture of my grandmother I have at my uncles funeral. The empty look on her face can be seen even through her sunglasses as she stands with a death grip around her dead sons photo that he took for her the day before he did it.
I'm tempted to post it, maybe it'll serve as a reminder to others the pain that it leaves behind.

That would be a great idea, thanks for listening to me, it really helps when its just one of those days. I think pictures of the aftermath of a loved one passing away could be something people with suicidal thoughts can look at and reflect on emotion.

 

[1SHOT1HIT]

Yeah, if you look at the pic she's empty inside , my grandmother is by far the strongest and coolest lady I know, at 80 I can joke with her and shoot the Sh!t with her just like one of my buddies. She's got a great sense of humor and can talk Trash just like a young guy, and will. Lol
She's grown a thick skin over the years with all the guys in the family.
And she's usually one of the happiest people I know at all times. I've never seen this look on her and hope to never see it again.
She held that photo for almost 5 straight days just like she is in the picture literally
From day one right up until the day we buried him. And I'm sure after as well.

And that's just her, there's so many others in the fam that were left she'll shocked as well, the tall guy with the ear rings is my brother, he was by far closest to my uncle as they were so close in age. He just remained angry the whole week, not a word out of him which is not normal.

It really is outright devastating.

 

[Norwegian Bass]

It's interesting to see a thread dedicated to the delicate subject of suicide and considering it turn into a pissing match so quickly. Oh, well....

People who call suicide victims "cowards" are usually people who 1) don't understand mental illness 2) are idiots 3) are having problems themselves and use it as a way to feel better about themselves or 4) are just plain ********!

I view suicide as an act of self defense from the point of view of the suicidal person. The person is suffering to the point of what we could consider torture and the only option to them is death. Death functions as a release from pain and suffering.

You can call it selfish, but selfishness is part of the illness for someone who for instance suffers from severe depression and/or anxiety. Suicide and the causes leading up to it is almost all dependent on the enviroment, I believe, and not so much on heredity.

American culture these days produces mental problems in it's population more than ever. So it's not a suprise to see that more people have problems and needs help than before.
The values that's predominant in american society aren't exactly healthy unfortunately.

 

[Relic]

It's interesting to see a thread dedicated to the delicate subject of suicide and considering it turn into a pissing match so quickly. Oh, well....

People who call suicide victims "cowards" are usually people who 1) don't understand mental illness 2) are idiots 3) are having problems themselves and use it as a way to feel better about themselves or 4) are just plain ********!

I view suicide as an act of self defense from the point of view of the suicidal person. The person is suffering to the point of what we could consider torture and the only option to them is death. Death functions as a release from pain and suffering.

You can call it selfish, but selfishness is part of the illness for someone who for instance suffers from severe depression and/or anxiety. Suicide and the causes leading up to it is almost all dependent on the enviroment, I believe, and not so much on heredity.

American culture these days produces mental problems in it's population more than ever. So it's not a suprise to see that more people have problems and needs help than before.
The values that's predominant in american society aren't exactly healthy unfortunately.

There's a debate going on right now regarding mental illness today, vs in the past.
Some say there's more, other's say it's more likely to be diagnosed due to more available care which basically makes it appear to be more predominant. I really don't know the real answer but I would say unequivocally it's NOT an "American thing". Take Japanese society for instance - they're dealing with a whole lot of suicides right now. Why? Economics? The pressure to "succeed"? I really don't know.
People's reason for suiciding are as varied as there are people committing suicide..

 

[Norwegian Bass]

Yes, Relic. It's worldwide, but that means it is also american,right? as in the sense that there are things going on in American life that are unique to american/western world thinking that we should be aware of and that are concerning. Also tb is american with mostly americans participating, so it makes most sense to talk in that context. This is not a foreigner pissing on "mom and applepie" And if it came of that way I apologise! It can be hard to really talk about these things without getting political, but that's a huge element of it. A doctor I like has his own equation for health: It reads:

health= biology x culture x policy^2

By health he means the whole human and not just the body.
I think it's a good one

 

[Relic]

Yes, Relic. It's worldwide, but that means it is also american,right? as in the sense that there are things going on in American life that are unique to american/western world thinking that we should be aware of and that are concerning. Also tb is american with mostly americans participating, so it makes most sense to talk in that context. This is not a foreigner pissing on "mom and applepie" And if it came of that way I apologise! It can be hard to really talk about these things without getting political, but that's a huge element of it. A doctor I like has his own equation for health: It reads:

health= biology x culture x policy^2

By health he means the whole human and not just the body.
I think it's a good one

LOL! No worries dude I didn't take it as an "attack on America"! I thought that you had simply meant that American society specifically was becoming more prone to mental illness and suicides. My reply was simply that I'm not so sure if that's true or not, there are varying theories on that, but it's bigger than just America. Japan is struggling with this maybe even more to a degree than we are. Russia too.. So, it seems that we agree, but are just stating it differently, that's all

EDIT - Kenneth - here, check out the numbers, it's sad :

http://chartsbin.com/view/prm

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Yes, Relic. It's worldwide, but that means it is also american,right? as in the sense that there are things going on in American life that are unique to american/western world thinking that we should be aware of and that are concerning. Also tb is american with mostly americans participating, so it makes most sense to talk in that context. This is not a foreigner pissing on "mom and applepie" And if it came of that way I apologise! It can be hard to really talk about these things without getting political, but that's a huge element of it. A doctor I like has his own equation for health: It reads:

health= biology x culture x policy^2

By health he means the whole human and not just the body.
I think it's a good one

More interested in people as people, regardless of where they reside.

I'd also say that, while TB may be hosted in the US, it's an international forum.

Oh, and this thread was started by a foreigner, for what it counts

 

[1SHOT1HIT]

More interested in people as people, regardless of where they reside.

I'd also say that, while TB may be hosted in the US, it's an international forum.

Oh, and this thread was started by a foreigner, for what it counts

Where from? Just curious.

 

[MIJ-VI]

There goes the neighbourhood...

























Invalid Link Removed

 

[1SHOT1HIT]

Lol

 

[Norwegian Bass]

Hahah! Mohawk's scottish, you know, where they celebrate Scotchtoberfest:

 

[MAJOR METAL]

Solidarity in the "test of flesh and soul". Hugs.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Hahah! Mohawk's scottish, you know, where they celebrate Scotchtoberfest:

Well played good sir, well played!

 

[Norwegian Bass]

Thanks Mohawk and Relic for the link, Wow!
It seems like I always get a little "emotionally engaged" when it comes to America and the British Isles. That's because I feel so close in a way and want good things to happen there. As a norwegian guy born in the 70s America and the British Isles occupied almost our whole consciousness when it came to good stuff like music, movies, sports etc. in a post WW2 world where directly because of yanks and brits we found ourselves on the right side of the Iron Curtain. So when I see bad stuff going on, like the destruction of your countries' manufacturing bases because of a few people's short term thinking and greed, it really pisses me off!
Plus you guys has the best old,traditional folk music! That's why I love the Transatlantic Sessions so much!
Here's an example of a nuclear fusion between bluegrass and folk music:

Also, as long as music like this exists and are beeing played, life is worth living!!

 

[Relic]

Thanks Mohawk and Relic for the link, Wow!
It seems like I always get a little "emotionally engaged" when it comes to America and the British Isles. That's because I feel so close in a way and want good things to happen there. As a norwegian guy born in the 70s America and the British Isles occupied almost our whole consciousness when it came to good stuff like music, movies, sports etc. in a post WW2 world where directly because of yanks and brits we found ourselves on the right side of the Iron Curtain. So when I see bad stuff going on, like the destruction of your countries' manufacturing bases because of a few people's short term thinking and greed, it really pisses me off!
Plus you guys has the best old,traditional folk music! That's why I love the Transatlantic Sessions so much!
Here's an example of a nuclear fusion between bluegrass and folk music:

Also, as long as music like this exists and are beeing played, life is worth living!!

Actually, I have a connection to Norway Despite the fact that my wife is from Costa Rica, part of her mom's side of the family had emigrated to Norway some time ago, so she still has many relatives there. We even had her hot Norwegian/Latina cousin staying with us for a while last year when she was visiting the states. (I behaved)
We've been invited to go and visit several times, maybe this year or next well do so. I'd love to see Norway!

 

[Norwegian Bass]

Cool. Then you can see the aurora borealis
and gas is only $9 a gallon so....I mean...bring lots of cash!

 

[Bright Midnight]

There are countless reasons why people actually start fantasysing about taking their own lives. But there's one thing that is probably common for most of those who actually do it in the end: the lack of any other emotion besides pain. These are just words, and sure, you could laugh at them as being superficial, but they basically are true. Try to imagine it's summer, the wheather is fine, people are out on the streets, there are music festivals all around, friends are laughing and joyous, families that may not have been the best to be born in but still care for you... Imagine this simple situation, it looks good and by all rights it should make one a happy person. It's my own. There's no reason today, in my life, why I should even think of death in any form or way, but the thing is I do. Death to me sometimes seems more real than life. There's a background to that: my elder brother commited suicide in front of my eyes when I was 8, he lived on because he was saved at the very last moment, but the happening sowed a very dark seed in my own emotional/mental world that I'm still dealing with today. There are other things that were more severe that happened in my life, and not that long ago I underwent a three month therapy for that, and it has helped. I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, roughly since my brother made his (first) attempt, and now I'm 33... Can you imagine always feeling hollow all day long? Can you imagine having to search for the joy others feel, or for the sorrow others feel, or for the compassion, or any of those human feelings? I do. I feel very little, for anything. I've made my attempts myself, and some angel has saved me twice, and now, after so much time I can truly say that suicide is not the way to go, but I will never ever judge someone who does do it. That all encompassing feeling of hollowness, lonelyness and anger, hitting so deep and long that it eats out your soul and leaves very little left as it moves on just to come back around again, is for some to much to cope with, and I can fully understand that. And endorfines are NOT all that goes on inside, the brain is a much bigger place than we are capable of understanding, and we do not control it... sometimes it sends the black dog, and you never know which one it's gonna be...

Thanks for listening

BTW: I have a lovely girlfriend, two kids, a good job, good friends and a good band. That's part of what keeps me digging for my own lost feeling. Sometimes, just sometimes, I feel a thing or two and then I smile.

 

[Norwegian Bass]

There are countless reasons why people actually start fantasysing about taking their own lives. But there's one thing that is probably common for most of those who actually do it in the end: the lack of any other emotion besides pain. These are just words, and sure, you could laugh at them as being superficial, but they basically are true. Try to imagine it's summer, the wheather is fine, people are out on the streets, there are music festivals all around, friends are laughing and joyous, families that may not have been the best to be born in but still care for you... Imagine this simple situation, it looks good and by all rights it should make one a happy person. It's my own. There's no reason today, in my life, why I should even think of death in any form or way, but the thing is I do. Death to me sometimes seems more real than life. There's a background to that: my elder brother commited suicide in front of my eyes when I was 8, he lived on because he was saved at the very last moment, but the happening sowed a very dark seed in my own emotional/mental world that I'm still dealing with today. There are other things that were more severe that happened in my life, and not that long ago I underwent a three month therapy for that, and it has helped. I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, roughly since my brother made his (first) attempt, and now I'm 33... Can you imagine always feeling hollow all day long? Can you imagine having to search for the joy others feel, or for the sorrow others feel, or for the compassion, or any of those human feelings? I do. I feel very little, for anything. I've made my attempts myself, and some angel has saved me twice, and now, after so much time I can truly say that suicide is not the way to go, but I will never ever judge someone who does do it. That all encompassing feeling of hollowness, lonelyness and anger, hitting so deep and long that it eats out your soul and leaves very little left as it moves on just to come back around again, is for some to much to cope with, and I can fully understand that. And endorfines are NOT all that goes on inside, the brain is a much bigger place than we are capable of understanding, and we do not control it... sometimes it sends the black dog, and you never know which one it's gonna be...

Thanks for listening

BTW: I have a lovely girlfriend, two kids, a good job, good friends and a good band. That's part of what keeps me digging for my own lost feeling. Sometimes, just sometimes, I feel a thing or two and then I smile.

Hey sublab, thanks for sharing your story.

There was a "depression-thread" here in OT a while ago where we shared stories. I had my depression last year when I too was 33. The post I made in that thread was dated March 17 this year:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f34/11-warning-signs-depression-861879/index4.html#post12352292

Everything in that post is true except that one workmate actually made the cut when it came to talking about it, and she ended up a true friend. And now I'm 100% recovered.

When I think back on my depression, I think that at the lowest I experienced what I consider to be "hell" or a hell-like state. A place where it was inpossible to give or receive love.
A hopeless place where pain, fear, emptiness and loneliness is.
The pain is worse, more intense and sharper, than any physical pain. And I have to admit that, sadly, I didn't really understand it untill I experienced it. It's just plain torture. And that's why it is so hard for people to know what it's like. The only good thing though is that it can be beat. There's lot of different ways that people do it. The thing that did it for me was therapy. Cause you have to "change your thoughts" in a way and your thoughtprocesses, which is tricky, since you have practised them your whole life. But it is important to realize that they are learned and that you can unlearn them. Cause the thoughts you think are not an accident. They've been born, nourished and grown. And the answer lies in your history.

 

[XtheDeadPawn]

It usually comes out before they know you have a close relative that did and then they immediately back pedal and try to not look like a complete thoughtless ass for saying something like that.


I'm in no way mad at you, he'll if you were here right now we could go sit and have drinks and finish this conversation.
Your entitled to your opinion and who am I to tell you your not, all I can do is say that when you share it you seem like a "classless" heartless human being.
No big deal hell there's plenty of them out there.

None the less all I'm hoping you'll do is try and refrain from insulting people's deceased relatives. Regardless of why they are deceased or how they got there, or how they lived before hand.

I am not backpedaling by any means I just better explained my feelings. As for your drink offer maybe we could.

But, on your Uncle commiting a suicide AFTER commiting murder. That to me sounds like someone who knows he's going down for murder so to avoid the trial costs his family would surely pay he did himself in. Knowing full well the verdict at said trial would have been Guilty.

Funny I don't remember you saying he commited murder before commiting suicide. That sounds to me not so much a coward for killing himself as a it does a coward for knowing that he's going down for murder but, not wanting to do the crime for the time. That makes him a bigger coward. Atleast to me.

If your gonna kill someone atleast be man enough to say "Yeah, I did it". What he did is make victims of his family, and your Aunts lover's family. They in my opinion are bigger victims than you because they never got to see your Uncle tried for his crime.

 

[MIJ-VI]