SX vs American and MIM Fender...

[Justice]

what sounds good is relative, meaning what sounds good to me, may not sound good to you. and vice versa.

That said...

The last time I was in GC, i saw an amp i wanted to demo. So i looked around and grabbed a new MIA P bass off the wall, $1400. The first thing that struck me about the bass was that it (of course) needed a setup. The action was high and there was too much relief in the neck. No big suprise. The big suprise was the generous amount of fret sprout, and i mean a LOT. There were also some high frets evident, although they were partially disguised by the high action.

How did it sound? Like a P bass being played through a GK head and cab. Nothing exciting and nothing any of my MIM or MIC P basses could not do as well or better.

But, in the shape it was in, it was going to need a pro setup to be a serious player. And where I take my basses, a pro setup is $120 (neck, bridge and nut adjustments, plus fret level, crown and polish, and these guys are good). So the $1400 bass is going to need another $120 of work just to play as well as my SX basses... hmmmm...

I also played an MIA jazz and while it did not have the fret sprout, it was still in need of a setup (which is not a rarity in itself at GC, we all know)

I had the $120 setup done to one to my SX P/J (because it had some high frets) and now it looks, sounds and plays great, and is still $1200 less than the MIA Fender.

math time?

I'll admit that I was dissapointed with the SX P/J when i discovered the high frets (only because my 2 previous SX basses did not have this problem) but decided on getting the setup done instead of sending it back. it was the correct choice.

And I know that the 2 Fenders i played are not represenative of the entire Fender line, but the same should be said about the SX basses.

I'm rambling now...

GO ROCKETS!!!!!

 

[Thorsoundcore]

I sez: I likes my SX better than my now gone-Spector Q5.

easy for me to agree.i'm the one person on here that thinks spectors are butt ugly.there's no one else that does

 

[Kevmove]

There is one comment made somewhere back that had something to do with being able to tell the difference between basses while blindfolded. Well there is one bass that I will always be able to identify: mine!

I know every nick, every ding, every fret that has edges on the sides. I know exactly where to set the volume pots to get exactly the sound I want for each song I play. I know what adjustments to make to the outer pickup set screws to get the sound "hotter" on my g string. I know immediately when the intonation is drifting. I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point: we can spend a lifetime comparing and critiquing basses, but in the end the only review that matters is your own. I can get hundreds of recommendations form hundreds of bass monsters on which is the best bass for xyz genre. Unless they are going to play the instrument for me, their opinion can only reflect their relationship with their instrument, nothing more.

 

[Kael]

I've admittedly only played a half dozen or so SX basses in my life, but I don't see what all the fuss is about them. Even when I've had the chance to set them up myself, they've always played and sounded like what they are, cheap entry level instruments. That doesn't make them bad. It just makes them budget quality. Nothing wrong with that. I will say that they are a good value. The ones I touched I would have expected to cost around a third to half more than they did. Starting from such a low point, that still leaves you with a cheapo beater. They're useable. You can certainly gig them, but they are still cheapies and feel as such to me.

Fender QC is notorious. I would well buy that there exists an american Fender that is no better than the average SX. On average though, my experiences rank the playability of those three basses right along the price line. I would wholeheartedly concur that Fender's recent price hike is excessive. There is no way I would spend what they are now asking for one of their instruments new. I'd personally never spend more than $700 (adjust for inflation) tops for a used american standard either, and I usually won't bite for anything more than the $600 range.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me how I'm wrong. I've been flamed enough times before for my thoughts about SX instruments. I've heard the bit about how you need to setup/dress the frets/swap strings/whatever to an SX, and that at the price you are still coming off cheap. My experiences still stand. You can polish a turd and it'll get slick, but that won't make it marble. I'd rather snag a used MIM if I really need a disposable 4 banger.

 

[dave120]

People will argue all day long that Fender somehow puts the magic fairy dust on their basses that somehow makes them better than everything else. If you break it down to the basics, you have an alder body and a maple neck on all 3 basses. The MIA body will likely be 2 pieces whereas the SX is probably 4-5 and the MIM is 4-5 (but I had one that was 7). NOBODY can actually say it makes a difference in the sound or playability (assuming there's no actual flaws in the construction).

The Fender basses you find at GC/Sam Ash are usually in dire need of setups. I go into one of these stores at least once a week for one reason or another and always play almost every Fender they have there. One thing is for sure, in the dozens of examples of each (MIA, MIM, Squier, etc) I've tried out through the same amps I have yet to find a single example of an MIA that justified spending well over a thousand dollars on it. Good pots, good tuners, etc are a very poor justification for the pricetag. I've seen plenty of them with fret sprout, high frets, low frets, really high action, etc which are things that shouldn't be there on that line of instruments. You don't see the same issues with Musicman basses that sit alongside them in the store for similar prices.

I have no problem with people wanting the "real thing" because Fender is the industry standard and everything else is a "copy" of them. But you're not ever going to convince me that they're somehow better just because they're Fenders. I'd put any of my 3 SX basses which have been worked over by luthiers against any MIA Fender you hand me in any category except maybe how smooth the tuners feel (lol), but they hold tune just as well. The difference being between the 3 of them (and 2 of them have had a lot of parts changed out) I'm still under the cost of ONE MIA Fender which I would probably make a lot of the same changes to because of cosmetics. Maybe they have some tiny fit and finish issues but if it's not something big or something that affects sound/playability I don't care. A little extra on the pickup routes makes zero difference. If this does make a difference to you, maybe you should think about what you're using it for a little harder.

Call it polishing a turd if you wish, but when you make that comment you assume that it can't be as good no matter what's been done to it. They are made of the same materials for the body and neck! ...The ONLY thing on a MIA that can't be put on a MIM or SX is the 2 piece body, and I'd really like to see the arguments for that. Everything else is easily swapped/done to it. The graphite rods MIAs have in their necks aren't even liked by a lot of people, and they certainly aren't in line with the vintage Fenders that are supposedly the best things you can get as far as sound goes. People can rag on SX's about their bad setups, etc but MIMs usually have the same issues and cost hundreds more. What's their excuse?

I have yet to experience the kind of prejudice against SX anywhere in the real world that I see here on TB. Most people that see and play my basses don't think it's a cheap copy. Granted mine aren't necessarily stock anymore except the Jazz that I don't gig much just because P/Js are more my thing. SX's have every bit of potential the others do, and you can get all the work done to make it as good or better than Fenders for a lot less money. That's assuming you want a bass to play and not try and show off the decal on. We all know everyone is greatly impressed by Fenders.

 

[savit260]

People will argue all day long that Fender somehow puts the magic fairy dust on their basses that somehow makes them better than everything else. If you break it down to the basics, you have an alder body and a maple neck on all 3 basses. The MIA body will likely be 2 pieces whereas the SX is probably 4-5 and the MIM is 4-5 (but I had one that was 7). NOBODY can actually say it makes a difference in the sound or playability (assuming there's no actual flaws in the construction).

Everyone knows QC on Fenders is horrible on the MIM line. And the ones you find at GC/Sam Ash are usually in dire need of setups. I go into one of these stores at least once a week for one reason or another and always play almost every Fender they have there. One thing is for sure, in the dozens of examples of each (MIA, MIM, Squier, etc) I've tried out through the same amps I have yet to find a single example of an MIA that justified spending well over a thousand dollars on it. Good pots, good tuners, etc are a very poor justification for the pricetag. I've seen plenty of them with fret sprout, high frets, low frets, really high action, etc which are things that shouldn't be there on that line of instruments. You don't see the same issues with Musicman basses that sit alongside them in the store.

I have no problem with people wanting the "real thing" because Fender is the industry standard and everything else is a "copy" of them. But you're not ever going to convince me that they're somehow better just because they're Fenders. I'd put any of my 3 SX basses which have been worked over by luthiers against any MIA Fender you hand me in any category except maybe how smooth the tuners feel (lol), but they hold tune just as well. The difference being between the 3 of them (and 2 of them have had a lot of parts changed out) I'm still under the cost of ONE MIA Fender which I would probably make a lot of the same changes to because of cosmetics. Maybe they have some tiny fit and finish issues but if it's not something big or something that affects sound/playability I don't care. A little extra on the pickup routes makes zero difference. If this does make a difference to you, maybe you should think about what you're using it for a little harder.

Call it polishing a turd if you wish, but when you make that comment you assume that it can't be as good no matter what's been done to it. They are made of the same materials for the body and neck! ...The ONLY thing on a MIA that can't be put on a MIM or SX is the 2 piece body, and I'd really like to see the arguments for that. Everything else is easily swapped/done to it. The graphite rods MIAs have in their necks aren't even liked by a lot of people, and they certainly aren't in line with the vintage Fenders that are supposedly the best things you can get as far as sound goes. People can rag on SX's about their bad setups, etc but MIMs usually have the same issues and cost hundreds more. What's their excuse?

I have yet to experience the kind of prejudice against SX anywhere in the real world that I see here on TB. Most people that see and play my basses don't think it's a cheap copy. Granted mine aren't necessarily stock anymore except the Jazz that I don't gig much just because P/Js are more my thing. SX's have every bit of potential the others do, and you can get all the work done to make it as good or better than Fenders for a lot less money. That's assuming you want a bass to play and not try and show off the decal on. We all know everyone is greatly impressed by Fenders.

Alder MIA Fenders are almost always at least 3 piece bodies. My 64 and 2008 MIA Fenders are definitly three piece bodies. So are my Alder SX basses. although I think four piece bodies aren't uncommon on the SX's.

Now , that said, ASH Fenders are typicaly two piece bodies.


... and Kael, I'm quite happy with my "polished turd" SX. LOL!!

 

[dave120]

Alder MIA Fenders are almost always at least 3 piece bodies. My 64 and 2008 MIA Fenders are definitly three piece bodies. So are my Alder SX basses. although I think four piece bodies aren't uncommon on the SX's.

Now , that said, ASH Fenders are typicaly two piece bodies.


... and Kael, I'm quite happy with my "polished turd" SX. LOL!!

Thanks for that clarification on the bodies. I'm also quite satisfied with my "polished turds!"

I'm not losing any sleep over that Fender decal...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[jmccain]

... However, here is the crux of the biscuit....

Oh, no it's not. The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.

Hate to tell you you're wrong, and hope you get over it.

 

[Kael]

Yep, ignore everything else I said and go straight to the pithy saying. About par for course. I never said that SX's were turds. I used an extreme saying to point out that gussying up a pig might make it prettier, but it probably won't compete with the girl next door. What can I say. For some reason I am in a Dan Rather folksy saying kinda mood.

Once again in case anyone missed it previously, there is nothing wrong with SX's. They are a good value. They are not however, in my experience as nice of an instrument as either a MIM or a MIA fender. Toss in the fact that Fender is now overcharging for what you get new and I can imagine that many people would be very pleased with them. I would not. I'm picky and that's my cross to bear. Kinda wish I wasn't so that finding an instrument that floated my boat was simpler. I'm sitting on a few rather nice instruments, and I am still nit picking. An SX would be a waste of money for me.

Once again, there is nothing wrong with SX, and many people might not be able to detect any differences between your average SX and even your average Fender. That doesn't mean that on average an SX, tweaked to your heart's delight, is the equal of your average overpriced (setup) MIA Fender. It just isn't IME.

 

[PBass101]

I know that my '08 MIA Precision is three pieces, because I can clearly see the outline of where the wood pieces were glued together...under the black shell finish.

Maybe my Precision just happened to have the one bad finish application of the 100 that Fender produced that particular day, but looking at my bass's body from almost any angle, you can see an almost orange-peelish quality to the black paint underneath the gloss. It isn't just one angle or when the light hits it a certain way. The black paint looks rippled and creased. I don't know if the paint sank into the wood grain over the past year - if that's even possible - or if it has something to do with Fender applying thinner coats to their new MIA bodies. But it looks terrible and I'll probably have the bass re-finished someday in the future after I get the new graphite neck and electronics I'm planning this summer.

I've never touched an SX and don't ever plan to. SX may be as good as Fender but I doubt very much they're as good as the Status Graphite bass I'm GASing for. But if anybody has any doubts as to whether Fender is capable of producing instruments with questionable qualities...

 

[savit260]

Yep, ignore everything else I said and go straight to the pithy saying. About par for course. I never said that SX's were turds. I used an extreme saying to point out that gussying up a pig might make it prettier, but it probably won't compete with the girl next door. What can I say. For some reason I am in a Dan Rather folksy saying kinda mood.

Once again in case anyone missed it previously, there is nothing wrong with SX's. They are a good value. They are not however, in my experience as nice of an instrument as either a MIM or a MIA fender. Toss in the fact that Fender is now overcharging for what you get new and I can imagine that many people would be very pleased with them. I would not. I'm picky and that's my cross to bear. Kinda wish I wasn't so that finding an instrument that floated my boat was simpler. I'm sitting on a few rather nice instruments, and I am still nit picking. An SX would be a waste of money for me.

Once again, there is nothing wrong with SX, and many people might not be able to detect any differences between your average SX and even your average Fender. That doesn't mean that on average an SX, tweaked to your heart's delight, is the equal of your average overpriced (setup) MIA Fender. It just isn't IME.

That's fine that you don't think so. I on the other hand, as far as a usefull tool to make music and money with disagree.

My SX (after some fine tuning) plays and sounds every bit as good (actually sounds better IMO w/ the Jason Lollar Pickup in the SX) as my 08 MIA Fender, SMOKES any MIM Fender that I've ever played(my luthier does MUCH better fretwork than any off the shelf Fender regardles of counrty of origin ), and stacks up pretty well against the bass that I measure all others against...

I actaully prefer my SX over my MIA 2008 Fender.

I'd be willing to bet that I'm every bit as picky when it comes to my main players as anyone. Bottom line is my SX suits me perfectly as a "workhorse" player, and sounds better than most Precisions I've ever played (that would be about a gazillion over the past 25 + years)

That's cool that they aren't for you. I have no issue with that, but I can tell you confidently, that my SX has no problems hanging with it's much more expensive Fender stablemates.

Note the MIA Fender on the stand behind me. I'd say it competes pretty well with the girl next store...

... and it's "Supermodel" stable mate. (I played this old 64 Precison for years before puting it into semi retirement... yeah, I know a good P bass when I see one )

 

[EagleMoon]

Never in my life have I ever seen somebody who loved to post pictures of themselves like you do, Savit.

 

[savit260]

Never in my life have I ever seen somebody who loved to post pictures of themselves like you do, Savit.

Sorry I don't have more of the required "Living Room" shots that are so popular around here.

Unfortunatly, 99% of the pics I have of my basses, are with my ugly mug, and actually being played.

Link Removed


LOL!! EDIT: I have enough live shots of the SX to crash the server. The vast majority of them I don't like though, so TB'ers should probably consider themselves lucky in that respect.

 

[EagleMoon]

Sorry I don't have more of the required "Living Room" shots that are so popular around here.

Unfortunatly, 99% of the pics I have of my basses, are with my ugly mug, and actually being played.

Link Removed


LOL!! EDIT: I have enough live shots of the SX to crash the server. The vast majority of them I don't like though, so TB'ers should probably consider themselves lucky in that respect.

Just don't be posting them in Off Topic or you'll end up with a thread like Atoz.

 

[savit260]

Just don't be posting them in Off Topic or you'll end up with a thread like Atoz.

I have no idea what that means.

 

[savit260]

Just don't be posting them in Off Topic or you'll end up with a thread like Atoz.

HAHAHAH!! The Search engine is my friend. Funny stuff...


On a related subject, a good friend of mine who now designs book covers for a publisher in NYC, and did a ton of photoshop work for "The Onion" started here career by photoshoping my face onto David Hasslehoff. LOL!!

Scary but true!

 

[senorblues]

I'm not surprised the American made Fender was so flawed. Overpaid, overweight Americans are so busy on the internet and their cell phones thinking only about themselves and their next beer, they do crappy work. Still, many will try to discredit sound reasoning.

 

[EagleMoon]

HAHAHAH!! The Search engine is my friend. Funny stuff...


On a related subject, a good friend of mine who now designs book covers for a publisher in NYC, and did a ton of photoshop work for "The Onion" started here career by photoshoping my face onto David Hasslehoff. LOL!!

Scary but true!

OMG! LOL!

I've never laughed harder than when I saw that thread about Atoz. Some really funny stuff in there.

 

[McSpunckle]

The long-term stability of an instrument is largely ignored, I think. I've had a few cheaper instruments that I thought were pretty great, but I noticed they needed adjustment a lot more in the neck. I think the quality of the neck wood and the quality of the trus rod should be taken into account before writing off a more expensive instrument just because you don't feel it sounds any better.


Also, if you've ever sanded down an SX, MIM, and American Fender, you'll find a different looking wood, in all likelihood. Arguing "they're made of the same wood blah blah blah!" is irrelevant. There is such a thing as higher quality wood. Have you been shopping for 2x4s at Home Depot lately? The quality gets worse and worse-- and you know what happens? The pieces warp very fast.

That said, I own an SX, and have owned 2 others. They were all great instruments. I'd easily put an SX against a lot of MIMs, and even some shoddy MIA Fenders, but after recently playing the new American Standard P and J basses, there's no way I'd say an SX is better than an American Fender.

Anyways, my next bass is going to be a Warmoth '72 P body and neck with a krylon finish. Why? Because that's not much more costly than the used MIM I was gonna buy in the first place. I was gonna change all the hardware and electronics anyways...

Sorry that was so rambley. I have attentions span issues. >.<

 

[purfektstranger]

Is it me or do SX owners seem to continuously justify there 150 dollar basses by saying they play as well or better than basses costing 5 to 6 times more? I am not picking sides but if I can afford an MIA P (2008 or newer) over an SX than you can bet I am spending the extra bucks. I have played several SX basses and several new Fender MIA s and for me the choice is easy. If your SX plays as well as a more expensive bass then that s cool.